Lets discuss - SL last names post from Rodvik Linden in the feeds.

[Celestiall Nightfire]

---

Chronometria wrote:

I think its perfectly fair to be sickened by corporations and organisations that make profits but who appear to treat customers as an annoyance and not their priority.

---

Hmm, you've stated an opinion, not a fact. 

I don't think that is how corporations and organizations treat their customers.  I happen to work for a large successful international electronic/computer corporation...that treats it's customer's damn good!  Oh, and the corporation I work for...is very successful financially.

How many corporations or companies do you know where the CEO actually carries on a dialog with the customers?  How many companies do you know where the CEO and company employees interact, talk to , and solicit ideas and commentary from their customers?

I can't think of very many...can you?   But Linden Lab does.  

 

---

Chronometria wrote:

In the UK, when i pay my petrol, when i use my bank and now when i log on to relax, i know that someone out there is making money from me and somehow resenting me for it.

---

Your comment makes no sense.   Why would someone who makes money from you...resent you? 

 

---

Chronometria wrote:

Yes, that sickens me and it is made worse by the fact that it shouldnt happen.

---

Hmmm, if something as trivial as people in an online virtual world/game not being able to pick last names, sickens you, then perhaps you are very young, and have not experienced much of life...real or second.

[Charolotte Caxton]

Hahaha, you call what just happened dialog with its customers?

[Marcus Hancroft]

You really shouldn't trivialize someone else's feelings, Celestiall.  They are valid.  And anyway, I don't think it was just about not being able to get a last name on signup.  It was more that Rod kept telling his customers "We're working on it!  It's coming!" and then a month or two later (after everybody got their hopes up) saying "Oh and by the way...we're not gonna do last names again.  But here's some dashes and dots and smiley faces for ya!"

So bring everybody up...and then crash them down to the rocks below.  

I think that's what everybody is so mad about.  

But to trivialize those feelings is insensitive, demeaning, and hateful.  

[Chronometria]

Marcus certainly understands how I feel.

 

As to the "resenting" of me as a customer, i`m referring to the blog comments of ex linden staff where it was apparently the case that we were all referred to as "wackadoodles" - basically troublesome idiots and not the people who second life was supposed to be for.

I mean, look at this - We ask for second names back, we get told the lab is looking into making "community awarded titles", which nobody asked for. There is no dialogue here, its the lab doing things for its own agenda and not for us, much as the removal of second names was in the first place.

 

....and we didnt even get the "community awarded titles" anyway, let alone the things we asked for. How much of this planning and discussion went into trying to make that nonsense idea work? What if the whole thing was canned over an inability to decide how to implement the titles?

[Coby Foden]

---

Marcus Hancroft wrote:

So bring everybody up...and then crash them down to the rocks below.  

I think that's what everybody is so mad about.   

---

Yes, that! 

[Charolotte Caxton]

---

Coby Foden wrote:

---

Marcus Hancroft wrote:

So bring everybody up...and then crash them down to the rocks below.  

I think that's what everybody is so mad about.   

---

Yes, that!

 

---

Yes. He is the one that started this. Hey guys, just so you know, we are gonna bring last names back, just as soon as we figure out how! And of course everybody was like, I love our new CEO! Yay! He is so cool, he actually listens to us! Yay! And then he is like, ok last names and titles! And then we say, nooooo! No titles, and then he's like ok then, forget I said anything, and ps, don't post on my wall anymore. End of discussion.

He charmed us with his cool words and I care about you attitude and then he pretty much slammed the door in our face. It kinda stings, ya know?

 

[Charolotte Caxton]

The discussion is being continued in the jira, since the 'dialog' feed has been closed:

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7125?focusedCommentId=313442#comment-313442 

[Canoro Philipp]

its sad that he listened more to its IT guys than the opinions of the community.

we posted several ideas, many ways it can be done, some even suggest some ideas of how the database could be modified, an abilty to have three choices: list last name, custom and none would have been a win/win/win situation.

probably the IT guys said that it will be too much work, lot of time, got other things to do, Marketplace website is down, its not so important.. it is very important if the CEO promised publicly to your customers that you were going to do it! the reputation of the CEO is at stake!

if the option of having last names is in the old system and not in the new system, add it to the new system!

i think is a very bad move to announce that they were not gonna do it... something better would have been "thank you for all your suggestions and ideas, we will consider them all, and sometime in the future we are gonna continue the project" instead of stoping it forever.

[Celestiall Nightfire]

---

Marcus Hancroft wrote:

You really shouldn't trivialize someone else's feelings, Celestiall.  They are valid.

---

 

No, I don't think so. 

All thoughts, ideas, and feeling are not "valid".  That's absurd.   What if someone "feels" that they need to do something...that is clearly wrong?     Like a person that "feels" they need to kill, or steal.   To assume that everyone's feelings are "valid" is to have no standard.  Nothing to judge by.   I don't play the game that all ideas, thoughts and "feelings" are equal.  Because they clearly are not. 

If someone is so out of balance with reality, that not letting players in an online game pick last names, "sickens" them...then perhaps they have tenuous grasp on reality.  Perhaps, they are not acquainted with real hardship or adversity.  To give credence to such a "feeling" does nothing to aid the person in learning to deal with life's realities. It is pandering to the ridiculous.

 

---

Marcus Hancroft wrote:

And anyway, I don't think it was just about not being able to get a last name on signup.  It was more that Rod kept telling his customers "We're working on it!  It's coming!" and then a month or two later (after everybody got their hopes up) saying "Oh and by the way...we're not gonna do last names again.  But here's some dashes and dots and smiley faces for ya!"

So bring everybody up...and then crash them down to the rocks below.  

I think that's what everybody is so mad about.  

---

I'm well acquainted with the issue Marcus, thank you.   I also know that there are many that are disappointed by the outcome.   But, "sickened?  Please. 

 

---

Marcus Hancroft wrote:

But to trivialize those feelings is insensitive, demeaning, and hateful.  

---

Read above for my explanation.   Also, thank you for being an example of the hyperbolic over-reactionary type.  *rolls eyes*

 

 

[Charolotte Caxton]

You are apparently unaware of the many persons, real life human beings, who are upset by this desision. It is not, as Marcus explained, merely the revocation of the promise of the return of last names, but rather the flippant way in which we, as living breathing human beings that love Second Life, were dismissed.

To attack two persons now for having feelings is sickening. No one has over reacted as of yet, except for you, just now.

[Celestiall Nightfire]

---

Chronometria wrote:

As to the "resenting" of me as a customer, i`m referring to the blog comments of ex linden staff where it was apparently the case that we were all referred to as "wackadoodles" - basically troublesome idiots and not the people who second life was supposed to be for.

---

So, you have a blogger, supposedly quoting an ex-Linden staff,  where the ex-Linden called SL residents "wackadoodles"?!  lol    

First, if an EX-Linden....did you notice that is was an EX (as in former) Linden said that it may be that they resent LL...not the SL residents.  Because, most former LL employees got axed...meaning they were fired.   It is not uncommon for people that are fired to resent they company that give them the boot.  

But, how that would have any bearing on how the actual Lab (like current employees and CEO) thinks about SL residents is not clear.

 

---

Chronometria wrote:

I mean, look at this - We ask for second names back, we get told the lab is looking into making "community awarded titles", which nobody asked for. There is no dialogue here, its the lab doing things for its own agenda and not for us, much as the removal of second names was in the first place.

---

 

Hmm, of course the Lab is doing things for their own agenda.  A company cannot meet all the requests of all the customers.   The number of people requesting the last name changes (as in change it back) is relatively small compared to the actual number of residents.   That 's the case when people think that they concerns represent the whole.  At most, those complaining, are a small percentage of the total players.  

 

---

Chronometria wrote:

....and we didnt even get the "community awarded titles" anyway, let alone the things we asked for. How much of this planning and discussion went into trying to make that nonsense idea work? What if the whole thing was canned over an inability to decide how to implement the titles?

---

I'm actually laughing out loud right now!   Sheesh.  Does no one here work for a company that deals with the public?!   

I think that LL does an incredible job of communicating and actually listening to the customer base in SL.  I"m amazed, really.  The company I work for, does not even allow the general public to submit "ideas", to them.   Seriously, they have a legal written policy on their website...that warns people from doing that.  I really think that the SL residents have nothing to compare to...and that they do not realize how amazing LL and SL are. 

If anyone wants to provide an example of a company or online game that lets it's players make policy or lets it players have a personal communication with the CEO...please post it. 

[Pussycat Catnap]

---

Canoro Philipp wrote:

it is very important if the CEO promised publicly to your customers that you were going to do it! the reputation of the CEO is at stake!

---

Exactly.

 

R: "Hey guys, new feature, now profiles will come in shades, cause the future's that bright."

US: "Yah, shades, just we always wanted!"

IT@R: "shades sux, for lamers and fashionistas. Your customers are a bunch of wackadoodle old cat ladies that play barbie in SL cause they ain't got no real action like us geeks. They don't even know why e = mc^2. Lame."

R@IT: "Oh right. Yeah, they're just wackadoodles. Screw em."

R: "Hey everybody, you can take your shades and put em where the sun don't shine. In the mean time, lets all hang out and talk about how SL has lost its magic fuzzy dice."

US: "Why do I feel like I've just been pimp-smacked?"

 

Its not that shades were the be all end all. They were great yeah. But don't go smacking us around.

 I think we -all- know where those magic fuzzy dice went, and exactly who took them away...

 

[deerylou]

Taken from my Jira post, I think perhaps it belongs in here in addition as I too am heartbroken over this matter as a Resident who unfortunately joined Second Life too late to share the same sort of identity as other, older community members:

 

With high hopes that I'd be given a second chance at choosing a name in Second Life, my heart sank reading Rodvik's post. With such credentials allowing Rod Humble to further understand the importance of character individuality through his solid resume including titles like EverQuest and The Sims 2, I felt certain that Residents now stuck in the middle of this unfair predicament would be given more than just assurance that this won't be an issue in the future with the addition of other special characters such as hyphens. What about the Residents right now? You know, the Residents already perusing Second Life, bearing this outcast surname and yet still continuing on, with less reverence than older avatars but a compelling love for the grid? This post neither covers nor details anything about current Residents, the plethora of individuals caught in this year (and a few months) of registration imposing this last name and thus winding up having undesirable first names as a consequence.

I feel like the current Residents such as myself, burdened by our last name we didn't even get to choose and thus alienated (or respected less) by portions of the community because of our registration date and lack of first name options available, are being overlooked. I commend LL for wishing to mend the issue somewhat in the future but Residents right now are stuck.

We're stuck with names like undercase "deerylou Resident" because the Registration page (http://t.co/tPkk0YPh) never clarifies that "Username" is your "First Name" for your avatar, something unique to Second Life that newcomers shouldn't be penalized for. In any other "game" (I don't even wish to call SL a game really but it's the best comparison I can give) a "username" is the name you use to log in with, not your actual avatar. For example, in Blizzard's Battle.net system (World of Warcraft, Starcraft, etcetera), to me my username is my Battle.net name, not any of my character's names. Plenty of other platforms follow this presumed standard as well.

As MMORPGs and other platforms who use this definition as opposed to SL's (extremely) unique definition of "user name" are more prominent, newcomers believe that this username isn't their character's name thus pick silly things like "deerylou" without any proper capitalization or "deerysongbird38756" because hey, no one can see our name anyway so why bother with the numbers? Surely our actual characters don't evoke numbers as many other platforms won't even allow numbers or characters into their characters' names as it clutters the world and devalues the character. Second Life is no different and should embrace the fact that many of us come from other platforms where "username" is our login name, nothing more or less and the fact that we're penalized for it through this decision to not allow Residents to have a second chance at a name is unfair. And for the future, new Residents should be given the benefit of re-wording on the registration page and use the word "Avatar Name" over "Username" in the name selection part. At least then newcomers would be more mindful before investing time and money into "deerysongbird38756" and getting stuck with an undesirable name they thought would be just an invisible username handle.

Overall, I'm happy to see LL is taking action regarding the future of the issue, however us Residents who were caught in the year and a few months gap of being merely a "Resident" and lacking username clarification on the registration page in a time where obtaining a good, number-less username is a difficult feat, are being overlooked. If anything, I wish LL would give these Residents a chance to have a paid name change service if they aren't willing or can't simply allow everyone to re-pick their first and surname. The hyphen and characters, while not my preference for a solution, do mend the future issue, it isn't fair to allow those who have been taken away by this lovely grid to continue to be penalized and forgotten like we have been in the latest official post regarding this issue.

How will current Resident surname-bearers be helped in the future? Will we be able to request a name change? Will we be able to get a paid name change? And will we ever feel united with the older avatars in Second Life, bearing witty, fun, or thoughtful first and last name combinations versus ours, filled with possibly numbers and a forced "Resident" tacked on the end? I feel that we too need to be included in a post regarding this issue and not simply left behind.

A Resident still hopeful in having a second chance at a Second Life name somehow,
deerylou Resident

 

* Also, this is what the registration page used to look like. Notice that it used to explain what the "Second Life name" is in detail that the registration page now dubs a "Username" with no further clarification at all. There should really be clarification on what a name/username/anything they wish to call it is on the registration page once again to prevent people from misinterpreting it as nothing more than an invisible login handle: http://blubaraka.com/itc/get_started/_img/02.jpg

[Renee Caxton]

This is the kind of stupid things CEOs do when, instead of actually thinking, they run the company based on stupid metrics chosen not because they are relevant, but because they are what is easy to measure.  Second Life is doomed.  I need to spend more time in other worlds and try to make a life there.

 

[Renee Caxton]

Your comment about the registration page is right on.  There are probably people that use their bank account ID because the Labs does not tell them that their username will be public.  Lawsuits are right around the corner.

[Marcus Hancroft]

---

Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

---

Marcus Hancroft wrote:

You really shouldn't trivialize someone else's feelings, Celestiall.  They are valid.

---

 

No, I don't think so. 

All thoughts, ideas, and feeling are not "valid".  That's absurd.   What if someone "feels" that they need to do something...that is clearly wrong?     Like a person that "feels" they need to kill, or steal.   To assume that everyone's feelings are "valid" is to have no standard.  Nothing to judge by.   I don't play the game that all ideas, thoughts and "feelings" are equal.  Because they clearly are not. 

If someone is so out of balance with reality, that not letting players in an online game pick last names, "sickens" them...then perhaps they have tenuous grasp on reality.  Perhaps, they are not acquainted with real hardship or adversity.  To give credence to such a "feeling" does nothing to aid the person in learning to deal with life's realities. It is pandering to the ridiculous.

 

---

Marcus Hancroft wrote:

And anyway, I don't think it was just about not being able to get a last name on signup.  It was more that Rod kept telling his customers "We're working on it!  It's coming!" and then a month or two later (after everybody got their hopes up) saying "Oh and by the way...we're not gonna do last names again.  But here's some dashes and dots and smiley faces for ya!"

So bring everybody up...and then crash them down to the rocks below.  

I think that's what everybody is so mad about.  

---

I'm well acquainted with the issue Marcus, thank you.   I also know that there are many that are disappointed by the outcome.   But, "sickened?  Please. 

 

---

Marcus Hancroft wrote:

But to trivialize those feelings is insensitive, demeaning, and hateful.  

---

Read above for my explanation.   Also, thank you for being an example of the hyperbolic over-reactionary type.  *rolls eyes*

 

 

---

I'm not going to get into a name calling match with you.  You can call me all the names you want and roll your eyes all around the universe if you want.  It makes no difference to me and only makes me feel pity for you.

As for the rest of your attack on my post (which I knew you'd do), I don't care about that either.  This is a free country and you can say anything you wish.  I just know what people are REALLY thinking and feeling about this whole mess and I know that you are completely wrong in this.  That you attacked me because I pointed out what people were really upset about (showing you that you are wrong), shows me an immature person behind Celestiall.  Someone who only thinks what THEY think is correct and everybody who thinks different is a weak minded individual.  

Well, we are NOT weak minded.  Think what you want.  

[Canoro Philipp]

"The number of people requesting the last name changes (as in change it back) is relatively small compared to the actual number of residents.   That 's the case when people think that they concerns represent the whole.  At most, those complaining, are a small percentage of the total players."

if we are so small and unimportant why the CEO considered the idea to bring the feature back? why did he opened a discussion on his feed to consult our opinion on the matter? i am not blaming Rod for this, altought he shouldnt have given up, i am blaming those careless Lindens that just say "no, impossible, cant do" on things as simple as that solution. i have worked on databases and the most difficult part it can be is to copy the contents manually to the new fields.

[Celestiall Nightfire]

---

Marcus Hancroft wrote:

I'm not going to get into a name calling match with you.  You can call me all the names you want and roll your eyes all around the universe if you want.  It makes no difference to me and only makes me feel pity for you.

---

Hmm, let’s see.  You tell me that comment is "insensitive, demeaning, and hateful".      I tell you that you're over-reacting and being hyperbolic. 

Do you have a reading comprehension issue?  Because, I don't see any name calling being done. 

I see you implying that my comment is "insensitive, demeaning, and hateful".   Were you really trying to say that you thought I, as a person, am "insensitive, demeaning, and hateful?   lol 

Now, of course, my comment was about your behavior.   I think you over-reacted and made a hyperbolic statement.  (look up the meaning if you're not sure what I'm saying).  Because, once again...you've done the same thing, made a hyperbolic over-acting type comment.

 

---

Marcus Hancroft wrote:

As for the rest of your attack on my post (which I knew you'd do), I don't care about that either.

---

Attack?   Why the battle language?   I merely pointed out that you have way over-reacted, as did another person that posted in this thread.  I also stated that I don't think all feelings, thoughts, and ideas are of equal validity. 

Also, I find it rather odd that you are reacting in such a dramatic manner. 

If, as you claim, do not care...then why the overly dramatic commentary?   Furthermore, why are you responding?   *smiling*

 

---

Marcus Hancroft wrote:

This is a free country and you can say anything you wish.

---

I welcome free expression.  Just as you are free to express your opinions, I will point out what I see as a lack of perspective, especially when it is expressed in a public forum. 

Oh, and Marcus, you're wrong about the, "you can say anything you wish" part.  The first amendment of the US Constitution does have limitations on speech...it is a common error that people believe they can say, "anything" they wish.  Read up on it sometime. 

 

---

Marcus Hancroft wrote:

 I just know what people are REALLY thinking and feeling about this whole mess and I know that you are completely wrong in this.

---

I'm completely wrong, about what, exactly?  You do not know what I think about the actual last name issue, because I have not posted that here.   Please do your homework, before trying to imagine that you know what I think. 

What I have posted about, is my opinion regarding the overly dramatic public reactions, to the last name issue.  

Also, I have been in SL since 2007, and have been as various times, a SL content creator, volunteer, resident, land owner, and shop owner.   I seriously doubt that you know more about what people are "really" thinking than I do.

 

---

Marcus Hancroft wrote:

That you attacked me because I pointed out what people were really upset about (showing you that you are wrong), shows me an immature person behind Celestiall.

---

 

Again, with the odd "battle" language.  You think my comments are "attacking" you.  Plus, you imagine that you've "showed me" that I'm wrong.  Oh, and you then resort to name calling.. (thought that you said you didn't want to do that?)  and call me "immature". 

Ah, yes....the classic forum thread.    lol 

 

---

Marcus Hancroft wrote:

Someone who only thinks what THEY think is correct a

nd everybody who thinks different is a weak minded individual.

Well, we are NOT weak minded.  Think what you want.

---

Oh, the irony.  You wrote this:

 

---

Marcus Hancroft wrote:

I just know what people are REALLY thinking and feeling about this whole mess and I know that you are completely wrong in this.

---

Marcus, you're the one who used the term, "weak-minded".  Is that how you feel?  Because, I have not used that phrase, at all.  Odd, that you would.

Also, you might want to check that huge chip you have on your shoulder.

Ok, I'm off to do wonderful things in both RL and SL.  Try not to have apoplectic fits over online games kids!

Cheerio!  : )

[WolfBaginski Bearsfoot]

The lack of explanations during the sign-up process is a good example of the way that social problems accumulate in SL. I've long thought that a better explanation, presented before names were chosen, would have better served all interests than the technical fix that was imposed.

I had a stronger idea than most of what I was aiming for, and I reckon I was lucky in the last names available when I signed up. It is a while since I made my Alt under the .resident system, but the actual use of Display Names was never mentioned, and it isn't a well-signposted process on the Dashboard.

As it is, it's possible that Rodvic knows about the vestiges of the old system, and has been correctly informed about their long-term viability, but that isn't what he wrote. What he did write suggests that he was misinformed, and that worries me. It's one of the oldest management problems in the book: how do you cope if you can't trust subordinates to tell the truth?

 

[Irene Muni]

---

Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

 

Hmm, of course the Lab is doing things for their own agenda.  A company cannot meet all the requests of all the customers.   The number of people requesting the last name changes (as in change it back) is relatively small compared to the actual number of residents.   That 's the case when people think that they concerns represent the whole.  At most, those complaining, are a small percentage of the total players.  

 

---

According to this we can ship to dump the entire Bug Tracker (JIRA) system.

[Celestiall Nightfire]

---

Canoro Philipp wrote:

if we are so small and unimportant why the CEO considered the idea to bring the feature back? why did he opened a discussion on his feed to consult our opinion on the matter?

---

 

Because, it was brought to his attention.  But, having an issue brought to your attention, is not the same as that issue carrying considerable weight. 

Well, actually Rodvik made a comment on his feed.  It was not particularly a call for discussion and opinions. 

https://my.secondlife.com/rodvik.linden/posts/4f285951be9e8f0001002204

Do you know how to click the "view all comments" on a feed thread to see all the comments?  If so, click back until you see the very first comment posted there.  It was after that first comment, that Rodvik opened his feed to the public, and only after getting more commentary did he say, "to keep the comments coming". 

He did read them, btw, and replied to many.   How many people do you think posted there, in total numbers?  (a lot posted multiple comments..and yakked it up, some people chose that as an opportunity to insult him, yet he kept that feed open.)  At no time did he make promises as to what would be the end-result.  But, because so many read into his commentary what they wanted to see, instead of what he actually said, there is now misplaced outrage by a vocal minority.

 

---

Canoro Philipp wrote:

i am not blaming Rod for this, altought he shouldnt have given up, i am blaming those careless Lindens that just say "no, impossible, cant do" on things as simple as that solution. i have worked on databases and the most difficult part it can be is to copy the contents manually to the new fields.

---

Canoro,

I don't think energy should be spent trying to place blame.   I suspect the issue is one of Time VS Value.   When running a company, it is paramount that the amount of man-hours spent be recoverable within a reasonable amount of time.   The last-names issue, while may seem like a big deal to people who are focused on it, is really not that big an issue.  The reluctance to change is part of human nature, and SL residents always react, and often poorly, to any type of change.  It appears that in the future, people will be able to create names that have a hyphen or other type of place-holder...and that will have to do.

I have accounts in Open Sim, Hypergrid, Science Sims, and a couple of independent Open Sim Universities.   For some of those accounts, I use my RL name.  My RL name is Dutch, and is in two parts.  None of those places allow me to use my RL name as it is spelled.  I have to either add a hyphen or make my last name all one word.  

This also happens a lot in RL, because various computer data bases are not set up to accommodate a two-part last name.  It is just a programming issue.  I mention this, because it is particularly ironic that so many in SL want to have a non-hyphened name...yet in RL people such as myself, cannot even get that!  *laughing*

[Celestiall Nightfire]

---

Irene Muni wrote:

---

Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

 

Hmm, of course the Lab is doing things for their own agenda.  A company cannot meet all the requests of all the customers.   The number of people requesting the last name changes (as in change it back) is relatively small compared to the actual number of residents.   That 's the case when people think that they concerns represent the whole.  At most, those complaining, are a small percentage of the total players.  

 

---

According to this w

e can ship

to

dump

the entire

Bug Tracker (JIRA) system.

---

A Bug Tracker (JIRA) system is a different animal Irene.  It is for tracking system errors, (bugs) and issues (things that go wrong when people are trying to do something)...and used to develop a solution. 

If when people tried to create accounts, they received an error message, then that is the type of thing that could be tracked with a JIRA. 

It does so happen that LL sometimes creates solutions to JIRAs that have only affected a few people at the onset, but they respond because it's deemed a "showstopper", which will escalate, and/or they just find an easy fix.  

 

[Charolotte Caxton]

Wow, all these threads and comments, a jira and the feeds, plus the many off world blogs and you come to the conclusion that only a small amount of residents were all for this? Then you jump in and say that others are overreacting when in fact the only emotional nonsense being posted by anyone is coming directly from you?

And what's with the quotes dissections? Really?

If you think this is another non issue, why are you even posting? 

[Pussycat Catnap]

---

Charolotte Caxton wrote:

Wow, all these threads and comments, a jira and the feeds, plus the many off world blogs and you come to the conclusion that only a small amount of residents were all for this? Then you jump in and say that others are overreacting

---

One thing I'm noticing in this topic is that folks who normally disagree about -EVERYTHING- are on at least similar pages on this.

Not identical mind you, because well, its still hot down under and ain't snowing yet...

But all noting that something just isn't right with what went down.

 

[Maryanne Solo]

It took me more than six months to get my last names x 3 to be identical.

Which would have been at least 400 attempts that were cancelled until the right one came up.

No wonder people are sickened by this result. I would be too.