Cinnamon Mistwood Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 This may be moved to Forum Feedback or deleted outright depending on responses and how they are perceived, but it is not meant to incite, provoke or bait. It is just meant to offer alternative views to other posts and responses that are given in other threads or even in the SL'ums... We all have different ways of communicating. We have different strategies to get our points across based on the tools that are available to us. The various strategies residents use are sometimes uncomfortable to different individuals. They may be perceived as trolling, baiting, racism, religious intolerance, ageism, sexism. How we respond is just as personal and individual as each of us is.When all tools to get an opinion across are taken away from us, we rightfully feel powerless and more likely to lash out. There has been a LOT of lashing out in the last month or so as all avenues of communication have been closed. It is easy here to have things 'disappear'. Moderation is tight. Lately, it seems, communication (uncensored except by each individual) has been moved to the profile feeds. Here is the bit about alternative views ( I know, by now all you see is blah, blah,blah) We all have concerns about privacy and attacks on the SL'ums and in the forums. There have been quite a few personal attacks and instant responses (some may have been justified - not my issue) in these new feeds that are available. One of the biggest issues seems to be that we are not allowed to block individual residents from responding to posts without also having to lock down the entire feed. Well... Those people that are making these attacks/baiting are doing a VERY good job of highlighting why we need control over the following feature and the ability to block individual unfriendly voices. So, thank you for your help! All the messages to LL employees were ignored, all our concerns went unheard. This seems like a fine strategy - albeit uncomfortable to read at times. The point is (my opinion) we use the tools we have.Most of us like comedy (there are a few who do not have a sense of humor, but they are the minority). Comedy works well as a tool when we can identify it. I happen to love stereotypes and sarcasm. Come on... White people have no rhythm, women are bad drivers, men are all pigs, gay people are trying to turn the entire world gay, Mormons just want to practice polygamy (spell check thought Mormons should have been 'morons' - which I find hilarious), Scientologists are... South Park anyone? Comedians have been pissing off individual groups for a VERY long time and even make fun of themselves. They use this as a way to get a point across and not everyone likes it. They might missing the big picture or may only take the one comment without the entire context or intent of the poster into account. Then again, some people are just mean. Whatever...If you have a strategy that you have been using, what is it? Has it been well received/understood or has it been taken out of context? Are you trying to help, but no one sees it that way? Have you always used this method to get your point across or has it only surfaced in the past month or so when the ears of the Lab closed? Cinn I am guilty of responding from an emotional place and almost always regret what I said. When it is pointed out, I accept it and apologize where necessary (this has been done in the last week, but the response post and my apology post were pulled anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I don't use any kind of strategy for posting..I just post up pretty much where i feel like posting..i guess depending on the mood of the thread will depend on just how silly i will act in it..hehehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rage Riptide Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I gave up on sarcasm a long time ago. Doesn't work on internets. People don't know how to read or write or punctuate correctly. uc wat I meen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Cinnamon Mistwood wrote: This may be moved to Forum Feedback or deleted outright depending on responses and how they are perceived, but it is not meant to incite, provoke or bait. It is just meant to offer alternative views to other posts and responses that are given in other threads or even in the SL'ums... We all have different ways of communicating. We have different strategies to get our points across based on the tools that are available to us. The various strategies residents use are sometimes uncomfortable to different individuals. They may be perceived as trolling, baiting, racism, religious intolerance, ageism, sexism. How we respond is just as personal and individual as each of us is. When all tools to get an opinion across are taken away from us, we rightfully feel powerless and more likely to lash out. There has been a LOT of lashing out in the last month or so as all avenues of communication have been closed. It is easy here to have things 'disappear'. Moderation is tight. Lately, it seems, communication (uncensored except by each individual) has been moved to the profile feeds. Here is the bit about alternative views ( I know, by now all you see is blah, blah,blah) We all have concerns about privacy and attacks on the SL'ums and in the forums. There have been quite a few personal attacks and instant responses (some may have been justified - not my issue) in these new feeds that are available. One of the biggest issues seems to be that we are not allowed to block individual residents from responding to posts without also having to lock down the entire feed. Well... Those people that are making these attacks/baiting are doing a VERY good job of highlighting why we need control over the following feature and the ability to block individual unfriendly voices. So, thank you for your help! All the messages to LL employees were ignored, all our concerns went unheard. This seems like a fine strategy - albeit uncomfortable to read at times. The point is (my opinion) we use the tools we have. Most of us like comedy (there are a few who do not have a sense of humor, but they are the minority). Comedy works well as a tool when we can identify it. I happen to love stereotypes and sarcasm. Come on... White people have no rhythm, women are bad drivers, men are all pigs, gay people are trying to turn the entire world gay, Mormons just want to practice polygamy (spell check thought Mormons should have been 'morons' - which I find hilarious), Scientologists are... South Park anyone? Comedians have been pissing off individual groups for a VERY long time and even make fun of themselves. They use this as a way to get a point across and not everyone likes it. They might missing the big picture or may only take the one comment without the entire context or intent of the poster into account. Then again, some people are just mean. Whatever... If you have a strategy that you have been using, what is it? Has it been well received/understood or has it been taken out of context? Are you trying to help, but no one sees it that way? Have you always used this method to get your point across or has it only surfaced in the past month or so when the ears of the Lab closed? Cinn I am guilty of responding from an emotional place and almost always regret what I said. When it is pointed out, I accept it and apologize where necessary (this has been done in the last week, but the response post and my apology post were pulled anyway). Someone apologized to me today and I graciously excepted it, only for it to get deleted. There will be no such resolutions here between differences of opinion as long as threads continue to be pulled for nothing more than a simple disagreement. I've, certainly, made my voice heard, more so, recently than in the past, because of the ridiculousness that has transpired in the forum over the past few months. I have no regrets about that... in fact, speaking up has generated some very welcomed consequences. Now I find myself in a position to defend my stance, as well as the people that stood up with me, against the very people I was taking a stand for to begin with. I find that quite disheartening, though I have no choice as to how other people feel about me or what I have done. It's easy to tell a person that has no sense of humor, they aren't the problem. It's the ones that purposely take offense to what you have to say, even though they know it was just a joke, in order to try to silence your voice, that I take issue with and will continue doing so. As you've already stated, I'm sure this thread (or this post, at least) won't last too long... though I do hope a few people get to read my words before they are struck down by the powers that be, once again. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sy Beck Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Humour Mirrors Logic Bulleted Lists And always in 5s Thoughtful post Cinn :smileyhappy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy Paperdoll Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I'm pretty much with Ceka on this subject. I only post on threads that I have an interest in or, at least, stir me enough to comment. I generally post only what I believe to be true or relative to the subject with little concern for how anyone else might take (or perceive) as my intentions. I do have a sense of humor (actually quite a wide range of what I think is funny or fun) but, for the most part I tend to not post in the silly or humorous threads......perhaps because I like reading humor more than trying to be humorous. I'm going to be honest here..........I just haven't seen this great big crack down on threads and posts. Yeah, I've seen a few threads disappear but no more than usual........not counting the spam threads that disappear quite quickly lately (and that is a good thing, in opinion). Maybe the reason I don't see the problem is that I just don't take the forums very seriously in the first place. Answers is a different story..........and I know there has not been a problem there at all. Different strokes I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Peggy Paperdoll wrote: I'm going to be honest here..........I just haven't seen this great big crack down on threads and posts. Can't blame you for being blind. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I can't say that I have a Forum Strategy per se. Some threads (topics) interest me more than others. I do read a lot more threads than I post in. I won't say that I do the following perfectly, but this is basically the main way I am: I say what I think and move on. I will check back to see if any one responded to what I said and decide from there if I want to get further into the discussion. Sometimes I change my mind because I learn something I didn't know from a response. And I will usually say so. Sometimes I think the responder is wrong and I will say so. The one thing I WILL NOT DO is engage in flame wars and name calling and extended word battles. They profit no one. If I feel something is getting too heated I move it to private IM. I have worked out a number of differences that I have had with posters that way. The one risk I run from that is that a few times the person has cherry picked from our private discussions what they thought would make me look bad or make them look good and passed it on privately to their friends that way. I don't mind that they shared privately. I do mind that they cherry picked. I guess the one other thing is this, that I do not expect everyone to agree with me. I know I'm strange and sometimes have strange opinions and that sometimes I do a terrible job of expressing what I am thinking. But above and beyond that I know that I do care about people. You may call it tooting my own horn but in RL I have sat for hours on end with ill or hurt people just so they wouldn't be alone. Many times. I have also stayed up many a late hour with friends in SL when they needed someone to be with or talk to because of a situation. It's simply the way I am. Thank you for asking. Perrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Not meant to be a thread jack. This is one of the three songs that I want played when I am gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Mistwood Posted December 4, 2011 Author Share Posted December 4, 2011 @ Ceka - hahaha - there is a guy in a nearby city that does the random hug attack downtown. He makes the news occasionally and always makes me smile. @ Rage - I know. I am still waiting for a sarcasm font to be accepted @ Dresden - I hope you do not feel the need to defend your stance. You are entitled to it. You do not have to like/agree with anyone's actions to want to defend their right to say it. @ Sy - all good strategies. I especially like the mirror one. Most effective and least noticed by the person it is put in front of @ Peggy - I am with you. I don't post in everything that goes by (my low post count can attest to that) but I will speak up when the urge hits. As far as the other thought, the first response I got to this post disappeared and I did not find it offensive in any way. @ Perrie - You and I think a lot alike. I do not actually enjoy drama and tend to stay out of it. I am also very aware of what an opinion is and have no problem with those who disagree with me. The "say what you think and move on" strategy works very well. Your strange opinions and however you choose to communicate them will always be welcome in my book. Cinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy Paperdoll Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 It's not a matter of being blind (or anything else like that). For the most part any posts I make in this forum (other than posts I make in the Answers section) are just for entertainment.......nothing is so serious that I would be bothered if, for whatever reason, my posts or the thread disappeared. Hell, I might not even notice it's gone. I know you used to get an email stating that a post was deleted (I haven't gotten one of those for over a year so I'm not sure emails are sent anymore). I do know that when a thread I started got moderated (and deleted) I did get a PM from the moderator who did the moderation (that happened a couple months ago to one of my threads). If the subject is one that is near and dear to me I would notice if it got deleted or heavily moderated.........but I haven't been in one of those discussions since the teen/main grid merger a year ago. I just don' that much seriously in this section of the forums. I'm not blind.......more like don't care much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canoro Philipp Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 on the internet, some types of humor are not percieved the way they were meant because of the different cultural backgrounds, they may work well in the closest communities around the poster, but the ones who feel uncomfortable by it may come from a culture where is very dissaproved. thats the problem in having a very colorful behaviour. i try to see the intentions behind the words, and ignore the personal attacks, they probably come from frustration feeling that their message was not percieved as they meant it. i try to understand other people's point of view, no matter how irrational it may sound, because under the colorful expressions, there is a message they are trying to tell us, for me, its better to focus on that message and the communication will improve. i dont really know if my efforts for good communications have been percieved the way i meant it, probably not for many people, because of the cultural backgrounds, but i try to explain myself carefully, evading forms that the message may offend anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Dresden Ceriano wrote: Cinnamon Mistwood wrote: Most of us like comedy (there are a few who do not have a sense of humor, but they are the minority). Comedy works well as a tool when we can identify it. I happen to love stereotypes and sarcasm. Come on... White people have no rhythm, women are bad drivers, men are all pigs, gay people are trying to turn the entire world gay, Mormons just want to practice polygamy (spell check thought Mormons should have been 'morons' - which I find hilarious), Scientologists are... South Park anyone? Comedians have been pissing off individual groups for a VERY long time and even make fun of themselves. They use this as a way to get a point across and not everyone likes it. They might missing the big picture or may only take the one comment without the entire context or intent of the poster into account. Then again, some people are just mean. Whatever... It's easy to tell a person that has no sense of humor, they aren't the problem. It's the ones that purposely take offense to what you have to say, even though they know it was just a joke, in order to try to silence your voice, that I take issue with and will continue doing so. ...Dres Bigotry has been "hiding" behind the "its your problem for getting offended" line for far too long. If you're a target of bigotry and hate - its hardly funny. What you might find funny, disparaging others, those others should not have to see as humorous. Who are you to decide that people "purposefully get offended" rather than see the "funny" in being slandered, insulted, demeaned, or belittled? Perhaps it is more proper to say that some people "purposefully insult" to get a rise out of others, or to promote negative stereotypes of groups and people they dislike, and then "pretend" it was "just a joke" when called out. Certainly some of those 'no longer among us' on the forums had long histories of making hurtful comments, and then when finding that people were hurt by them, jumping forth with added fevor to 'push the nail in deeper' - and laughing all the way, calling it 'just a joke.' - many of them self-admitedly so. If someone is insulted with demeaning language, how are they supposed to know "it was just a joke"? How can that even possibly be a joke? As Canoro Philipp notes above me, this is a place with people from a variety of diverse cultures. Humor that is based on 'slam-talking' others will not work in that kind of environment. You are just bound to seriously hurt others when doing such humor in an environment where you do not know the cultural variables involved. Much of such humor can end up very closely mirroring the speach of hateful groups that your listener struggles with in RL... and its just not wise ground to tread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 i have seen my posts or threads with my posts in them go away..but mainly i knew at some point they were going away.. there was one just yesterday hehehe.. the tone of that thread i just knew that someone had AR'd it..but i still had posted in it anyways..i think my post lasted about 5 minutes before time ran out..but i still was able to post my IBTL pic which i hadn't posted in such a long time lol the thing that does bother me most is almost losing Celest and then losing Void..people that have been around for years helping in many ways.. i know one fact for sure..i'm not changing my ways because someone decides to get heavy handed around here..if i felt i had to change i would leave on my own..if i over step and it's too big of a deal to be over looked and i get tossed for good..then so be it.. i do know that i will be somewhere just being the same old me..helping and sometimes getting serious when it's time.. also trying to make people laugh when i can because that's important ..people need to laugh and smile in this world if that's too loud for LL then they are too old.. all the underdogs in the house.raise your glass because if the party isn't here..you can bet it will be somewhere..*winks* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Petrov Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Great OP, Cinn! To 'disagree without being disagreeable' has been my approach to posting here. I do not always achieve that aspiration, but I try. If I think that someone is trying to provoke me, I will sometimes type a response and delete it. I was hopeful after the Lithium rollout that residents here, the then CM 'duo', Amanda and Lexie, and the mods might work together to improve forum experience for all. We made good headway in the early months. I will not list all that happened, it is documented in the meeting minutes of the CTUG. More recent events have been frustrating to experience. I will not list these; anyone who has paid attention here has seen it happen. I do have hopes that, with Lexi's return, we will once again be in 'work together' mode. Something more than the 'black hole' that I sense Forum Feedback has become. Void Singer's departure is a blow to us all. I hope this is not a harbinger of more to come. We all love reading and writing here or we would not be doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Mistwood Posted December 4, 2011 Author Share Posted December 4, 2011 @ Conoro and Pussycat - I agree. This is an international meeting place. I have no doubt that many of the misunderstandings that have taken place here are due to misunderstanding cultural differences. There is no excuse for true hate and bigotry. Communication through type is difficult enough and taking into account that everyone has a history, a story and/or personal battles makes that communication even more difficult. I wish we could all be eloquent and tactful, but those are not gifts everyone has. It all seems to track back to the intent of the poster. Some people post with the intent of starting a war - others are just not as good at communicating their thoughts. @ Ceka - I hope you don't change your voice here. I enjoy most of the personalities here - yours included. Helping, laughing, adding, educating - I would hate to lose anybody. @ Venus - I have never been to one of the CTUG meetings. I seem to be at work whenever one is scheduled. I like the "disagree without being disagreeable" strategy. Sort of fits with the disagree with the idea not the person behind it or someone in here said hate the post not the poster (or something similar). I have failed miserably a few times.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Ahren Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Cinnamon Mistwood wrote: Mormons just want to practice polygamy (spell check thought Mormons should have been 'morons' - which I find hilarious), I thought that was a joke. There is another religion that actually practices polygamy and is so terrifying that none dare mention it. Welcome to 1984 where The Ministry of Truth = The Department of Justice. The first is not about truth, and the latter is not about justice. I should change my name to Winston Smith, but nobody would get the joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Petrov Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 After a night's rest: I also believe that, as adults here, we should be able to 'engage' and challenge each other in spirited debate without resorting to name calling. For example, someone might post a recollection of an event as was related to them by another. Should they get their 'facts' wrong, they should be challenged. Assuming that the majority of us have or had responsibilities in our work and personal lives, this should not be unfamiliar territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I am a PICard. (this forum) should become a place where people can confidently play and disagree without being disagreeable. We seek to recruit more kindred spirits to make coherent arguments regarding the conduct of the forums to Lexie and her Mods. If we are successful then I am sure that we will be able to enjoy ourselves and develop the interest of lurkers and new joiners in participating confidently and comfortably. I like to make people laugh, both at me and at themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Ahren Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 One of my friend has this line on her profile: If you can't laugh at yourself, I'll do it for you. She's not really my friend yet. I'm just kind of stalking her right now. ETA: I mean following her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Peggy Paperdoll wrote: It's not a matter of being blind (or anything else like that). For the most part any posts I make in this forum (other than posts I make in the Answers section) are just for entertainment.......nothing is so serious that I would be bothered if, for whatever reason, my posts or the thread disappeared. Hell, I might not even notice it's gone. I know you used to get an email stating that a post was deleted (I haven't gotten one of those for over a year so I'm not sure emails are sent anymore). I do know that when a thread I started got moderated (and deleted) I did get a PM from the moderator who did the moderation (that happened a couple months ago to one of my threads). If the subject is one that is near and dear to me I would notice if it got deleted or heavily moderated.........but I haven't been in one of those discussions since the teen/main grid merger a year ago. I just don' that much seriously in this section of the forums. I'm not blind.......more like don't care much. You're absolutely right. I think I should take a page from your book, as far as this is concerned. Why I should care about what goes on in this forum, when the only thing that happens is that I get thrashed for it by the very people who's rights I was concerned about in the first place, is beyond me. Frankly, I've had quite enough of this crap. Perhaps I should just silence my own voice instead of waiting for someone else to do it for me. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Randall Ahren wrote: One of my friend has this line on her profile: If you can't laugh at yourself, I'll do it for you. You make me laugh Randall. I will borrow that line for my signature. I would like to attribute it to the individual, but that is up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Petrov Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 @Dres: You have the power to silence your voice, yes. But why? I enjoy your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Venus Petrov wrote: @Dres: You have the power to silence your voice, yes. But why? I enjoy your posts. Thanks, Venus. As to why... it's nothing I feel I can discuss on this forum, perhaps I will discuss it on some other forum in some other place. Maybe you can continue to enjoy my posts there... if you can find me. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Dresden Ceriano wrote: I have no choice as to how other people feel about me or what I have done. It's easy to tell a person that has no sense of humor, they aren't the problem. It's the ones that purposely take offense to what you have to say, even though they know it was just a joke, in order to try to silence your voice, that I take issue with and will continue doing so. As you've already stated, I'm sure this thread (or this post, at least) won't last too long... though I do hope a few people get to read my words before they are struck down by the powers that be, once again. ...Dres I've read your words and I find them troubling. I agree with Pussycat's observation that "Bigotry has been "hiding" behind the "its your problem for getting offended" line for far too long." Blaming someone for not getting the joke is a tired old trope, an attempt to absolve oneself of personal responsibility. Most people do indeed have some choice in determining how other people see them. The ability to make those choices comes from something called empathy. Empathy is not perfect. People have it in varying degrees and use it for varying purposes. Drag out that old trope if you wish. Don't be surprised if I set it on fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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