SL and child AV paranoia

[Marigold Devin]

I'm really actually puzzled why you're having such a rant at what would appear to be a small minority of residents in Second Life.  In your short nine days in Second Life you sound like you've covered a lot of ground, and I'm pleased to hear you already enjoy exploring, and have been helped along by your friend.

Maybe you who needs to focus more on the positives than on those few residents who give you grief at the occasional place. If it is any consolation, a heck of a lot of us have been banned from somewhere (and often you find these places have a massive list of banned residents).  Landowners can ban whoever they want to ban, and maybe some get a buzz out of it, or maybe they are being over-cautious, but that is their choice and their right in SL.

Bear in mind that people will always see what they choose to see, and that won't stop just because another person objects to how they view the world.  I actually had some bloke try to pick me up once who said my avatar looked 16 years old. Most people who know my avatar definitely would say it looks more likely late-20s.

So you have a think about how many people you've interacted with/encountered in Second Life so far, and work out just how few have given you the harrassment, and at what types of places, then you can move on and have a much happier Second Life. Because so far it isn't sounding like the most positive of experiences.



[Kelli May]

Taking a look at your av, the picture doesn't scream out underage to me. Your shape looks reasonably adult, your skin young but not excessively so. If I saw it on a much smaller build, or coupled with a childlike AO, I might read you as younger. So if you don't squirm like you have ants in your pants or randomly bust out your hopscoth moves, I'd see you as a young adult. Maybe a bit of make-up would give you a more adult look, but if you're happy with that look, I wouldn't change it.

Some people clearly are a little trigger-happy with the under-age av thing. I don't see why you should suffer for it either.

[Qie Niangao]

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Litella wrote:

Ok this has happened in 2 of the 2 clubs i have been too, i have been to  beachs (some of them are nude ones loll)  and NOONE has hassled me once.  Ive been to forests and parks, been sky diving, jetski riding, killing zombies all hassle free. 

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Well, it's true: there's no IQ test for owning a club.

( Come to think of it, if there were an IQ test, could anybody pass and still be willing to own a club? :smileytongue: )

So maybe you had bad luck with your first two clubs.  Fortunately there are plenty more from which to choose.

[Venus Petrov]

Your avatar looks youngish but I would not think childish.  Do not sweat the small stuff.  You have only been inworld a very short time.  Find other places to enjoy and have fun.

[Marianne McCann]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

Marriane who posted above is a neighbor to one of my builds, and I've met her a number of times. She's almost as tall as my AV.

I would -never- mistake her AV for anything -BUT- a child AV. 

NETHER OF US tends to wear lolita stuff. Unless my read of her is all wrong and she wears it over on that secret child AV cabal spot.

 

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The uber-frou frou stuff is not my thing. I'm just a kid. I might wear some fanicer clothes for soe events (and the ocassional costume, but that can be anything from a Dorothy Gale dress to a Haz Mat suit), but most of the time, it's just regular clothes.

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

Actual child looking AVs in adult places - that's pretty rare too. After the initial touring during the opening of Zindra, the child AVs really did stop bothering with going to A-rated land for the most part. Despite demanding the right to go there, few of them use it. Most of them have the sense to know the content there is not for them, and so don't bother.

 

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Speaking as someone who did get an "initial tour" of the place (which many still remember how cheerful that was), I think it points to the difference between what *is* allowed and what most reasonable people will do. I'm glad I am not in instant violation if I end up plunked in a "safe" hub when a region crashes, but I really cant think of any place I'd be interested in visiting in Zindra. I looked at all the cool mole stuff before the land started being given to people, and that was all I was interested in. 

[Incoherendt Randt]

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Litella wrote:

You want to see what my AV looks like, check out my profile. 

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HA! I know that skin, I wear some from the same place. Maybe the missing quarter inch of makeup confused a couple of pinheads. The people saying find different clubs got it right, places like that are mostly drama pits anyway!

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Carole Franizzi wrote:

C.F.: That's not what I meant either. I said that although it took me weeks to get a decent avatar together, I can hardly judge other people's progress based on my incapacity and on my slowness to learn techy things. What I can't understand and what I frankly do not believe is that the OP became aware of a phenomenon which other people took months and maybe years to become aware of. Nor do I believe that a 6ft adult woman avatar got booted from a high number of clubs in just one week.

But what REALLY made my hackles rise was the post from the person who claims that those who object to child avatars being around adult sexual activity in SL are actually the ones who get kicks out of it....

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Oh ok.

I mostly agree with you.

I think -I- was aware of the Child AV thing early on, and I've seen rez day noobs mention it. But I'm a voracious forum / blog reader (something that gets me into a lot of trouble sadly... I'm not as nice in forums as I manage to be in person and in SL, and it drives me nuts... but I have to admit my posts sometimes even annoy me).

- So I think I read about it before fully joining, in the getting started blog I read before making my 2009 come-back. I don't really count my short 2006 stint, since I just wandered for a bit, got lost, and gave up.

But most people are not so aware.

And a 6-foot AV would not get booted unless they were seriously up to something. Most of the 'you must be this high' signs I see are even below my height... If this person really did have what they claimed occur - something else had to have been amiss.

- Though isolated weirdness can happen. There's a newspaper article today (well online), about 3 brothers having a heart attack at the same time - statstics by their nature conclude that sooner or later, the 1 in that billion raises their hand.

But if it happened repeatedly, while statistically possible, its just too doubtful.

Need to see that Avatar in a pic before we can believe the claim - and the pic might very well show some other red flag that is the real issue.

 

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Marianne McCann wrote:

Speaking as someone who did get an "initial tour" of the place (which many still remember how cheerful that was), I think it points to the difference between what *is* allowed and what most reasonable people will do. I'm glad I am not in instant violation if I end up plunked in a "safe" hub when a region crashes, but I really cant think of any place I'd be interested in visiting in Zindra. I looked at all the cool mole stuff before the land started being given to people, and that was all I was interested in. 

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- Yeah that.

Now that I've met a number of child AV players, I've grown a lot less 'paranoid' about them. Frankly I can't see most of them even wanting to be anywhere near that stuff. Its mostly about, as you say; "OMG they rezzed me here after that crash?"

In Zindra's early days, the builds popping up were often so ugly even many 'adult content types' wanted to avoid them... But those folks have mostly gone bust - the builds are more polished now, but just 'not the theme' that would appeal to any Child AV I've ever encountered.

I really don't know where this secret cabal of ageplaying child AVs is... I've explored a lot of the grid and I -CAN'T- find them, so I'm skeptical of people who somehow manage to get chased by them...

To me, they're more or less 99% "urbal legend" and 1% "griefer in it for the drama who isn't even interested in the format they're using to grief that day".

 

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Litella wrote:

Thanx for the replies.

You want to see what my AV looks like, check out my profile.

 

Ok this has happened in 2 of the 2 clubs i have been too, i have been to  beachs (some of them are nude ones loll)  and NOONE has hassled me once.  Ive been to forests and parks, been sky diving, jetski riding, killing zombies all hassle free.

 

I think it had to do with my height...Im a 6 foot amazon kid obviously.  

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Thank you for the followup.

I mostly wanted to see your AV to see if I could spot something.

I can't.

If anyone is fool enough to think your avatar, looking like that, is a child AV - they need a vision test.

I dunno... I guess... you just hit the statistical jackpot. Like the three brothers I mentioned above.

Change up your club choices. Heck, people here can probably rcommend some good new choices.

If you like Reggae I could recommend some (try Irie Vibes I'm guessing, and branch from there).

 

Search for "The Forum Cartel" - join the group, and chat - those people will help you find more welcoming locations.

Try things that are similar to but not exactly clubs: live music events. If you can make some friends in those, it'll send you down the path to finding more welcoming spots.

 

[Marianne McCann]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

I really don't know where this secret cabal of ageplaying child AVs is... I've explored a lot of the grid and I -CAN'T- find them, so I'm skeptical of people who somehow manage to get chased by them...

To me, they're more or less 99% "urbal legend" and 1% "griefer in it for the drama who isn't even interested in the format they're using to grief that day".

  

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Back in 07-08, it was a bit more common on the grid. Most of the kids even then were more like me than them, but you could still find some at a few places. Sky News did a piece or two about one of those places. They eventually went off to OpenSim somewhere, then apparently failed or went even further underground. The names of the owners are still well known by some of the older kids, though. :-/

it's pretty much nonexistent now, though there's still every so often an attempt by people to start up that stuff, but it never lasts too long. Usually it's not the kid avvies, though, but adult avatar-ed creeps who try to hit on kid avvies. They tend to find out how quickly word spreads in the kid community when they pull that sort of thing! we don't want them around any more than anyone else.

[Carole Franizzi]

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Litella wrote:

If a club manager thinks im a threat to their club and LL might be called, then they shouldnt worry about it, im not a child AV and nor is my personality,. Dont worry ive checked out the LL policies and im not here to act like a child....

......And to those calling me a troll and making out im acting inappropriately, thanx, its nice to know what kind of people are around here, go get bent you losers.

And had written previously:

Oh and you people who are always thinking about kids being abused..i suggest thinking about something else, its not a good look or healthy thinking.

 

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No offence, but since you checked out LL policies, you must be aware that people risk losing their accounts if they permit age-play, therefore your assurances not to sweat it are, to say the least, pointless. If you had been in SL longer you'd know that it's very difficult - almost impossible - to get such a decision reversed, and there have been enough reports of bans being implimented without much ado, to understand that in such cases, LL does not call all those present to give witness and make statements. In other words, your reassurances about being over-age would not be heard by those who make the decisions. 

Again, I repeat, people spend vast amounts of money in buying land and paying monthly tiers. People who have clubs are among those who invest enormous amounts of their time in-world. You may feel they (and I) are being unreasonable, but, frankly, I feel the unreasonable one is you, as your attitude is still very much "This is how I want my avatar to look and I want to go anywhere with her and people should run huge risks in order to keep me happy". The avatar you used (which may or may not correspond to the photo in your profile) was perceived by two separate club-owners as being under-age. Whether that was your intention or not is irrelevant, whether they were being over-cautious is irrelevant - what is relevant is for you to understand and accept that if you wish to go into adult clubs undisturbed you need to use a clearly adult avatar. I have two other avatars which are both petite and have never been challenged regarding their age because height is only one factor in determining age. You talk about a teen skin - since 18 is adult in most places, the term "teen" in reference to skins usually refers to a youthful looking, fresh-faced under 18 year old, a teen skin IS a non-adult one. Evidently that skin combined with the undeveloped body caused two people to believe you were underage. There are a number of free adult skins available which you could use when you want to go to adult areas. Changing skin (and shape) is much less of an inconvenience than constantly being asked to leave and much, much less than losing your entire account.

This loser will happily go and get bent, preferring any day to be more concerned about child abuse and the attempts of some people to demonise awareness of the issues, than about the trauma of someone being asked to leave an SL club or two. You'll have to forgive me if I ignore your suggestion to forget about the issue.

 

 

[Ima Rang]

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Litella wrote:

Thanx for the replies.

 

I like to point out that my name is made up and and has nothing to do anything else .  My name makes me a child AV now too??

 

Yes I have been here in SL 9 days, i have a friend thats been here alot longer than me who has spent alot of time setting me up here, telling what to avoid  etc, so at 9 days old my AV looks good.  But thats due to alot of help here, most people are very helpful, tell you about mania boards and lucky chairs, they give you things to use like AOs and other things i wont mention

.

 

 I like to explore,  thats why im here,

 

You want to see what my AV looks like, check out my profile.

 

Ok this has happened in 2 of the 2 clubs i have been too, i have been to  beachs (some of them are nude ones loll)  and NOONE has hassled me once.  Ive been to forests and parks, been sky diving, jetski riding, killing zombies all hassle free.

 

If a club manager thinks im a threat to their club and LL might be called, then they shouldnt worry about it, im not a child AV and nor is my personality,. Dont worry ive checked out the LL policies and im not here to act like a child

 

And for those who are wondering what i must of been wearing...Jeans and a black tank top with sneakers, what was i saying.."hello"  "good thnax"  "nice club" << all very child like huh, Yes sure i have some sexy outfits, i save them for beaches not clubs, my firends and i wear that stuff in RL all the time though without being judged as a kid..

 

I think it had to do with my height...Im a 6 foot amazon kid obviously.  My shape is a sunshape, its not a kids one, my skin is a teen skin as mentioned in my first post, she has freckles and looks like a 18 year old does.  Her breasts are very close to mine, im thin rl and as i said i want my AV looking as close to me as possible, and thats my choice not yours.  But again breast size determains wether your a child or not?, i have breasts thats clearly obvious period.  Some 14 year olds are taller and have bigger breasts than me Rl,  so that must make them more adult than me? and im like 18.

 

Sorry if a vibrant young adult look makes you feel threatened, get over it.  If i saw a child AV in a club, i would IM them and ask them why they are there, adult clubs are no places for kids.

 

And to those calling me a troll and making out im acting inappropriately, thanx, its nice to know what kind of people are around here, go get bent you losers.

 

 

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And to those calling me a troll and making out im acting inappropriately, thanx, its nice to know what kind of people are around here, go get bent you losers.

 

And it was this childish behavior that I suspect caused the owners of the clubs to ask you to leave as opposed to your youngish looking avi.  As hard as it is to imagine in this age of the interwebs, where children tell grown adults to get bent and refer to them as losers, there are still a fair number of adults who have no appreciation for being disrespected by teenagers.  Judging from your "get off my ass" comment in your profile and your proclivity to rant after two experiences, it is difficult to view you as an adult as your behavior is a display of an over entitled teenager who feels that her desires should trump sim/club ownership.  Being an adult is not limited to appearance. 

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Ima Rang wrote:

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Litella wrote:

And to those calling me a troll and making out im acting inappropriately, thanx, its nice to know what kind of people are around here, go get bent you losers.

 

 

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And to those calling me a troll and making out im acting inappropriately, thanx, its nice to know what kind of people are around here, go get bent you losers.

 

And it was this childish behavior that I suspect caused the owners of the clubs to ask you to leave as opposed to your youngish looking avi.  As hard as it is to imagine in this age of the interwebs, where children tell grown adults to get bent and refer to them as losers, there are still a fair number of adults who have no appreciation for being disrespected by teenagers.  Judging from your "get off my ass" comment in your profile and your proclivity to rant after two experiences, it is difficult to view you as an adult as your behavior is a display of an over entitled teenager who feels that her desires should trump sim/club ownership.  Being an adult is not limited to appearance. 

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Yes that is a bad profile she has with the rants. I always suggest people only put positive statements in their profiles.

But a large portion of the grid has 'I'm so tough' profiles... I wouldn't call this proof of teen/adult - but of poor judgement in self marketing.

Unless we're arguing that every frankenbarbie in SL is really a teen, which I doubt even if it would bring me a sense of comfort were it true.

Both that profile and the comment above seem to come as reactions to getting attacked - and when people get attacked, they tend to react emotionally... those attacking them then often like to use their reaction against them in a somewhat bullying manner - a sort of "ha ha, you're crying, see I was right to call you a nincompoop.'

 

 

[Ima Rang]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

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Ima Rang wrote:

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Litella wrote:

And to those calling me a troll and making out im acting inappropriately, thanx, its nice to know what kind of people are around here, go get bent you losers.

 

 

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And to those calling me a troll and making out im acting inappropriately, thanx, its nice to know what kind of people are around here, go get bent you losers.

 

And it was this childish behavior that I suspect caused the owners of the clubs to ask you to leave as opposed to your youngish looking avi.  As hard as it is to imagine in this age of the interwebs, where children tell grown adults to get bent and refer to them as losers, there are still a fair number of adults who have no appreciation for being disrespected by teenagers.  Judging from your "get off my ass" comment in your profile and your proclivity to rant after two experiences, it is difficult to view you as an adult as your behavior is a display of an over entitled teenager who feels that her desires should trump sim/club ownership.  Being an adult is not limited to appearance. 

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Yes that is a bad profile she has with the rants. I always suggest people only put positive statements in their profiles.

But a large portion of the grid has 'I'm so tough' profiles... I wouldn't call this proof of teen/adult - but of poor judgement in self marketing.

Unless we're arguing that every frankenbarbie in SL is really a teen, which I doubt even if it would bring me a sense of comfort were it true.

Both that profile and the comment above seem to come as reactions to getting attacked - and when people get attacked, they tend to react emotionally... those attacking them then often like to use their reaction against them in a somewhat bullying manner - a sort of "ha ha, you're crying, see I was right to call you a nincompoop.'

 

 

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The profile is proof of nothing, but does display a lack of maturity...and maturity is most often associated with adult behavior. 

I think many forum posts have primarily established the fact that frakenbarbies are not teens, but men (I'm joking, sort of) :matte-motes-big-grin-wink:

I used troll in the noun form: The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted".  We old timers know that this is a subject that often proves to escalate to heated battle.

The only people that I actually saw being "attacked" and that is not what I would have called it, were the individuals who stated that they were uncomfortable with child avi's in adult areas, or those who expressed a sincere concern regarding the depiction of child abuse in said areas as being unpalatable and something that should be of concern.  Ultimately, Carole is correct...we don't get to tell her how big to make her boobs, and she does not get to force herself onto privately owned land.  The standards that we all set for ourselves/sims/clubs are our own business and should not result in being called a trigger happy paranoid pinheads who are harboring desires to abuse children. 

[Ceka Cianci]

Yall need more Swaggerwagon YO!

[Ima Rang]

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

Yall need more Swaggerwagon YO!

 

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LOL!  Seriously rather drive a smart car than a minivan   lol!

[Ceka Cianci]

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Ima Rang wrote:

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

Yall need more Swaggerwagon YO!

 

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LOL!  Seriously rather drive a smart car than a minivan

  lol!

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hehehehe

[Ima Rang]

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

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Ima Rang wrote:

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

Yall need more Swaggerwagon YO!

 

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LOL!  Seriously rather drive a smart car than a minivan

  lol!

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hehehehe

 

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Ha! Ummm...safety sells...

[Canoro Philipp]

Ima, adulthood is not some type of behaviour, an adult (in the US) is any person who is over 18, she is over 18, so her behaviour is that of an adult person.

she fits the fair number of adults who have no appreciation for being disrespected by other adults.

[Ima Rang]

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Canoro Philipp wrote:

Ima, adulthood is not some type of behaviour, an adult (in the US) is any person who is over 18, she is over 18, so her behaviour is that of an adult person.

she fits the fair number of adults who have no appreciation for being disrespected by other adults.

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I think she said she was "like 18."  Her behavior may very much be what you expect from a socially mature adult, but not what everyone expects.  If my child at eighteen years old spoke to me in such a manner, there would be some hell to pay...but you know, some parents do not care if their teenager calls them losers, I suppose.  Different strokes. Different expectations.   Here in my state, 18 year olds are not permitted a good number of activities of an adult nature until they are 21. 

I have not seen any indication of her being disrespected. 

[Canoro Philipp]

you can verify her age at her first post. adults should respect teens also, as mature persons they should know that disrespect is not good, a person that expects respect should give respect too, must be 2 way.

this seems to me like a disrespect to her "I smell a troll.  Litella (Lie Teller)"

[Ima Rang]

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Canoro Philipp wrote:

you can verify her age at her first post. adults should respect teens also, as mature persons they should know that disrespect is not good, a person that expects respect should give respect too, must be 2 way.

this seems to me like a disrespect to her "I smell a troll.  Litella (Lie Teller)"

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I already explained the troll statement...and perhaps it is just purely a coincidence that Litella is what my 10 year old and her friends use as text speech for Lie Teller.  It is possible. 

 

[Ceka Cianci]

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Ima Rang wrote:

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Canoro Philipp wrote:

you can verify her age at her first post. adults should respect teens also, as mature persons they should know that disrespect is not good, a person that expects respect should give respect too, must be 2 way.

this seems to me like a disrespect to her "I smell a troll.  Litella (Lie Teller)"

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I already explained the troll statement...and perhaps it is just purely a coincidence that Litella is what my 10 year old and her friends use as text speech for Lie Teller.  It is possible. 

 

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Yall need a Pilot YO!

hehehehe themes..you gotta love'em hehehehe

[Melita Magic]

Anyone who will follow my basic rules is welcome at my sim - if you want a place to hang out. There's also the forum cartel next door.

Don't sweat the small stuff or small minded peeps or whatever is bugging you, even SL life is short, right?

 

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

OMG! Child AVs next to me!

ACK!!!! Got-to-run!!!!!!!!!

Even the child AVs have something to fear. Note the ball of fuzz at left. It has claws, I bet.

And its shorter!!!!

 

Ps: Two of these are what CHild AVs look like, for the clueless. Note how its not just about being short.