Mesh Clothing

[Jennifer Boyle]

From what I have seen and read, it seems to me that mesh clothing will eventually make other clothing obsolete.  I wonder if better-informed people think so.  If I were sure of that, I would certainly curtail my clothing purchases while awaiting more and better mesh items.

The mesh clothing that I have tried so far has been disappointing.  Some included instructions for altering my shape to fit the clothing, which I am damned well not going to do.  Other items had problems with skin showing through, even though I wore the alpha that came with it.  I think that it is either too early for designers to have hit their stride with mesh, or that I have not found the right designers.

Can you recommend some designers who have quality mesh women's clothing for sale?

 

[Ariel Vuissent]

I personally do not think mesh will replace our current clothing options any time soon. For one, some creators cannot or choose not to create mesh clothing. I don't see those creators closing up shop and giving up any time soon. For another, mesh clothing is great for some things, but there are far too many people on the grid who WILL NOT alter their shape to fit into mesh, particularly as, for some, this requires significant shape changes that make them not feel like themselves. Suggestions have been made to LL on how to improve this, but we all know how slow they are at implementing such changes...I often have to both wear the alpha included with my mesh items, and change my shape a bit in order for no skin to show through.

I also can't see how one would create certain things using mesh. Things like fully, flowy skirts, ballgown dresses, etc. seem to be beyond the capabilities of mesh (at least in SL, and please, if someone knows better, correct me here). I don't see a lot of people willing to give those up, either. I know I'm not. I do love a good ballgown or boho skirt...

For a while, people were saying that mesh would replace everything; it was so gorgeous, it would make all other attachments look cheap and flat in comparison. I haven't noticed this. Sure, mesh looks great, and moves much better. I love it for knee-high or thigh-high boots, loose trousers, and close-fitting dresses, but I don't find that my other items look bad in comparison. In fact, I've mixed mesh and non-mesh items in one outfit and they look fantastic together.

As for good mesh designers, my personal favorite is Jane. I haven't actually found many others I care for so far, though I do have an outfit here and there by a different creator. So far, Jane has the widest selection I've found, and very good quality, with 5 sizes offered (if I recall correctly...).

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I agree that it will be a while before mesh clothing is widely adapted.  Not only for the above reasons, but if you wear mesh people without mesh viewers can't see your clothes.  Not everyone can afford to upgrade their machine to run mesh viewers.  Of course, eventually, with enough time the majority of people will run them. 

It just remains to be seen what improvements will be made to mesh by that time to make it more flexible in fitting the wide variety of avatars in SL without them having to alter their shape. Until that time mesh will only slowly integrate into most peoples wardrobes, in my opinion, and tradtionally constructed clothing will still be worn either entirely or mixed with mesh.  It may even be that people continue to prefer traditional clothing for certain outfits or pieces of clothing.

[Innula Zenovka]

You might be interested in this thread over at SLU, where people are listing mesh items (of all types) they've seen and liked.

[Marianne Little]

Hi, try to look at this blogger: She shows a skirt where the mesh har replaced the crotch flap, I think it looks great and this is probably the future of mesh: Not 100% mesh clothes, but made to work with textured clothing as the sculpted prims do.

http://juicybomb.com/2011/10/21/going-places/ 

[Jennifer Boyle]

Thanks for the helpful responses.

Until now, I had not thought about the issue of people with non-3.x viewers not seeing mesh clothes.  Thinking about it caused me to wonder what happens when one wears mesh clothing in a G area where there are people with viewers that don't render mesh properly, causing their poor sensitive eyes to see things they've only dreamed of.

[MuffinUnsane1488303563]

Personally I like mesh. I'm still waiting for all the kinks to work out but I've had little problem with it. Though, it will be some time before I spend money on it.

I think, its a great new way to make fashion. I don't mind editing my shape a bit to make things fit so usually stuff looks good on me. I look foward to seeing what anthro avatar creators can do with it.

It could help to pick up some freebies or demos. Many are very good quality. That way you don't have to spend to try.

[Ariel Vuissent]

I've heard of some people being asked to leave the G area, or even being banned, due to complaints from those using non-mesh viewers who don't realize or don't care that the person they're reporting is wearing mesh clothing. Better business owners, estate managers, etc. will send a polite IM asking the person in mesh clothing to please change into something non-mesh.

I still kind of wonder if it would help for mesh creators to create a quick set of free textured undies to be worn under mesh creations. Doesn't have to be anything fabulous, just a couple censor strips in the right places would do. They wouldn't have to spend much time on it, and could include the undies free with all mesh clothing. That way, even if a mesh user wandered into a G area with someone who couldn't see mesh, wouldn't the non-mesh user see the undies covering the private parts, instead of a totally naked avi?

[Chelsea Malibu]

I agree with Ariel in that though they have their place, I really don't think they will make ANYTHING obsolete.

It sort of reminds me of the broadcast market.  They said that FM radio would kill AM radio and that TV would kill radio.  They all found their niche and their purpose and chugged right along.

IMHO, prims still rock. They can be modified, managed and textured very easily and sculpts offer some new shapes but also new challenges.  The same it true with Mesh and I do have one mesh dress that fits me great and I love it but I for one am not going to modify a shape for each outfit..It's not that important to me and I'd rather do other things than work on my wardrobe though I understand, and appreciate those who do.

In the end, I think we will find needs for nearly all of it.

[Lyra Blackthorne]

I don't use a mesh viewer and have seen a very few avies wearing donuts so I dont think mesh has taken off broadly.  I have been given a few mesh items to try but so far nothing I have seen has excited me enough to change viewers

[Innula Zenovka]

I, on the other hand, do use a mesh viewer, but haven't yet seen much I want to buy.   I've bought some nice boots from lassitude & ennui, but -- maybe because I don't wear thigh-length boots that often -- I still mostly wear my boots from Bax.   I like the mesh jeans I've seen, and will probably get some next time I want some more jeans, but nothing's jumped out and said "buy me!" yet.  

When some of of the designers I normally buy from -- Avid, for example, or DE -- start making mesh outfits, then I may well be a lot more interested.

[Jennifer Boyle]

Thanks for the additional responses.

Marianne, thanks for the link.  That skirt is gorgeous.  I have never had a tight skirt that looked nearly so good.  It is sooooo much better than prim skirts, though I wish it were a bit shorter.

 

One problem that I did encounter is that I can't wear any of my jackets over it because the mesh covers the tail.

I also found a few other items that were well-done that just were not my style.

Ariel, it seems to me that there is something wrong when people get punished for using the improved technology that LL makes available because other people choose to use viewers that can't see their clothes and then get angry because they can't see their clothes.  It seems sort of like using the night (infrared) setting on a camcorder to see through clothes and then getting angry at the people through whose clothes one sees.

[Marianne Little]

Yay, looks good! Jackets with prim tails, you can use over, if the prim starts a bit up? I think the same problem was in system skirts too, textured jackets could not cover them. I hope this replaces crotch flap in miniskirts, I hate to adjust those things and they never look good when I walk or moves.

PS: the blog I linked to, shows quite some mesh shoes and boots. 

[Ariel Vuissent]

I agree. The best solution, in my opinion - since LL integrated the teen grid, so now we have teens wandering about who might see the naked people (like it's something they've never seen before...) - would be undies. Of course, the best solution would be acceptance, realizing the person wearing the giant doughnut and otherwise nude is in fact wearing mesh, so let's not freak out that we can't see their clothes; just move on. But too many people are too immature for that.

I think that's definitely the biggest problem mesh faces right now. Too many people on non-mesh enabled viewers seeing people wearing mesh naked. (Or, like me the other day - someone asked me why I had a bucket by my feet. I had mesh boots, they didn't have a mesh viewer.) I do think Phoenix with mesh will help a lot, though of course it will be buggy. Still, so many people use Phoenix, and it's still V1 based, so more people might be able to "upgrade" just enough to see mesh. We'll see, I suppose.

So far, the best uses of mesh I've seen are that skirt (which is awesome - the prim pieces never move right and aren't usually the right size or shape), and Slink's thigh-high boots. I hope to see more mesh-insert skirts, and more long boots. Maybe some that go just over the knees, instead of thigh-highs...

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I finally had some time to go shopping to look at mesh clothing.  And although I really didn't see anything that excited me style wise enough to buy any of it, I did try some demos on. 

None of them fit my avi properly Even when sizes were available they were either too small or two large.  If I wanted to wear any of them I'd have to alter my shape, which I'm not going to do. 

I was also disappointed in the long skirts.  They didn't move as gracefully as I'd hoped they would based on mesh I've seen in machinimas not made in SL, and all seemed to be made of thin foam rubber in how they did move.  It was nice that they moved with my avi and no glitch pants were needed.   I tried sitting in them and conventional sits were OK and better than prim skirts, but some poses made them look wierd.  

I will however check out pencil skirts, which I haven't gotten to yet.  Hate system skirts so I'm hoping a mesh pencil skirt will be a big improvement.  Also going to check out over the knee and thigh high boots which may be better in mesh.

Bottom line for me is I am not going to invest much in mesh at the is point with the exception of one or two things, until the fit issue is resolved and most people use mesh enabled viewers.  I also hope designs improve as clothing creators become more comfortable with mesh as the shorter dresses I saw and tried on were sorta dowdy looking on my avi.

[Sassy Romano]

---

Ariel Vuissent wrote:

I've heard of some people being asked to leave the G area, or even being banned, due to complaints from those using non-mesh viewers who don't realize or don't care that the person they're reporting is wearing mesh clothing. Better business owners, estate managers, etc. will send a polite IM asking the person in mesh clothing to please change into something non-mesh.

---

My pig headed reply to that request would be "please change your viewer!"

Since when do people have to wear underwear in SL just in case someone derenders prims in their viewer?  Or when the viewer fails to bake the textures properly and renders you naked anyway.  Or prevent camera controls to avoid being upskirted?

I recognise that it's an issue that some don't have a capable viewer but nor is it the problem of the mesh product wearer, nor should any particular responsibility fall unto them to ensure that they are rendered to downlevel viewers.

Do these estate manager/club owners who are using a mesh enabled viewer, inspect everyone's prim clothing to see if it's a mesh item and then if it is merely assume that it cannot be rendered by others and insist on underwear?  Where in the LL ToS is underwear and mesh clothing mandated?

[Ariel Vuissent]

Oh, I agree. I should be able to wear what I want, and if people are going to get their panties in a twist over clothing that LL has made possible on their viewers, then they should have to upgrade or leave. I shouldn't suffer for someone else's ignorance, just because I choose to wear advanced technology. But, ce la vie.

[TishaRogue]

As a designer/builder i came to the forums today to find information on how to make/use/work with mesh and what is needed to upload them into SL. This is the first item i came across and I fully agree. Mesh is hoped to bring SL into a whole new level of graphics and professionalism. Unfortunately at this time it seems many of the designers are scrambling to figure out how to work with mesh and this is showing in the products available. I recently did a grid hunt for mesh items and the only things avi-wise i ended up keeping were the skirts and footwear. Oh and the hairs.. they were great as long as the builder used good textures. The items that were meant for the top part of the avi whether a shirt or a dress didn't fit the avi at all no matter what size i put on. In most of them the alpha stuck out past the mesh. Thats not a good look. At this point when it comes to working with mesh I know about as much as a customer buying in a store. I don't even know how to edit its placement if in fact i can at all (hence looking up info today). We shouldn't need to change our shapes to fit the outfit. Part of our avis individuality will be taken away just to fit in a dress. It also sounds too much like the real world. Get those avis on a diet so they can fit in the model size clothing. No thanks. I'd rather not look exactly like everyone else that bought the same dress as me. Ideally mesh should conform to the individual shapes. That is part of what was meant to be great about it. Another issue i have with many of the existing mesh cloths at the moment is their overall look. Designers are still learning how to work with it so yes there will be a learning curve but... we can all look frumpy in the real world. Not going to buy things that make the avi look like she crawled out of bed and grabbed something off the floor. So far many of the items i've seen have been thick and not flattering in any way. Wearing a sack isn't better than the old way of making cloths. Next issue and as a designer this is why i've waited to even bother looking into making mesh items... Still so many people using viewers that don't work for mesh. Whats the point in wearing it or having it in the home if half your friends see blobs or part of you as invisible.. or nakie if there is no alpha. Many people are hanging onto the old viewers and I don't blame them.. I had much better graphic rez with the V1 viewers and once i moved up to be able to make the big prims without scrips (which I luv by the way) i got a lot of grey and blurry people. No amount of cache clearing or graphic cut backs have helped this. Not even going bk to V1 fixed the issue so whatever it is i'm stuck with it now.

The more people move up to viewer that are mesh compatible the more designers will start making the products.

The more designers working with mesh and more competition and know how will push the styles and qualities to be better.

The more "how to" info for both the creators and end users out there the better.

A suggestion to retailers selling the mesh.... Give a notecard with information... and not suggesting to change the customers avi to fit your creation... inform the customer how to adjust the mesh garment to fit their existing avi just like some sellers give edit cards for attached prims. Some of the dresses and tops I tried on I liked but having alphas sticking out even when going to a bigger size made them not work for me. Some dresses didn't even sit on the avi in the right point and didn't even cover the chest (yes the style was meant to cover). The whole thing needed moving up about 2 inches but the regular edit that I would do on prims didn't seem to do what I needed.

If you look at some of the avis and products from the SL past weather you see them in person or just in some old products sale boards you will see how far the designing and avis have come. Think of mesh as the avis were in the beginning. That is where mesh is at.. eventually when people know what they are doing and have more practice it will get better just like the rest did. Its the designers and customers that have pushed SL to become more than it ever was and push the programers to keep up. Many of the designers are NOT programers and to make thing out of SL into compatible formats sometimes requires a computer genius just to make it happen. I hope the programers at some point are able to make uploading these outside builds that improve the virtual world much more user friendly. When that happens it will open doors for a huge group of people that have design skills but just aren't up to all the program script stuff required for SL compatibility.

Theres my rant. The good, the bad and the frumpy.

[Sassy Romano]

---

TishaRogue wrote:

A suggestion to retailers selling the mesh....

Give a notecard with information... and not suggesting to change the customers avi to fit your creation... inform the customer how to adjust the mesh garment to fit their existing avi just like some sellers give edit cards for attached prims.

---

Can't be done.  You cannot move or scale a rigged mesh item and most clothing will be rigged to move with the avatar.  So at present, you HAVE to adjust your avatar or wear a suitable alpha layer to hide it.

We're waiting on the mesh deformer so that things fit better but LL seemed to think that this was not a necessary function when the first mesh release happened.  It is being developed by an ex-Linden and the progress can be followed in a JIRA.

I'm not sure that I agree that not enough are not using mesh enabled viewers.  Phoenix, CoolVL are viewer 1's that support mesh, all other modern TPV's support it.  People have to move on.

[Coby Foden]

---

Sassy Romano wrote:

---

TishaRogue wrote:

... inform the customer how to adjust the mesh garment to fit their existing avi ...

---

Can't be done.  You cannot move or scale a rigged mesh item and most clothing will be rigged to move with the avatar.

...

We're waiting on the mesh deformer so that things fit better but LL seemed to think that this was not a necessary function when the first mesh release happened.  It is being developed by an ex-Linden and the progress can be followed in a JIRA.

---

@ TishaRogue

In case you didn't know, here's the link to the mesh deformer JIRA where you can follow how things are advancing for better fitting rigged mesh clothes:

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1716

[Pussycat Catnap]

A -LOT- of mesh clothes for sale are template items.

If the seller bought an older template - before people started settling into things like the 'Standard Sizes' - then it might not fit too many shapes. Or if the template was just not that good... or if the shapes you're using deviate from the standard sizes in bust-waist-hips you'll be out of luck...

The very high prevalence of templates, this early on, means that for the foreseeable future, and likely even for a few years AFTER deformer hits, we'll have a lot of this on the grid.

There are only a very small set of template makers on the grid - and unless they pull their older goods the moment deformer hits, it won't improve. Some of these templates look to be made with skill. For others there are other things to say about their quality.

- The short of all this is that many mesh goods for sale are made by people who don't know anything about modeling, so couldn't fix issues even if they spotted them.

 

[Comet Zuzu]

hey there replying to your statement ... yeah thetre is alote of problem with mesh at the moment ive try most of the mesh outfit out there atm...... one thing ive learn is that you probably have to ifix your own alpha .... an atm am tryng to figure that out ......but it is true that the mesh clothing line is in the first stage of there mass production ....

[Starheart McMasters]

Seems like most of the new clothing coming out is mesh now, and I really hate it. I'm not going to alter my shape just to fit one of five predetermined shapes for mesh! It falls right in to the media hype that says if we don't look a certain way we're not ok, which I think is abominable. And while there are some great styles in mesh, none of them fit right and look boxy and make me look really fat! I would never choose to wear stuff like that in real life, so why would I do it in Second Life? And forget the lovely movement of clothing when you dance. just does not happen. I just got a beautiful dress that shows my nipples. It came with directions to change--not the dress, but my body. Not going to happen. For this reason I will NEVER buy a mesh outfit unless there's great improvement, and the freebies I get will for the most part wind up in the trash. I have literally hundreds of outfits in my inventory so if I never get another new one, oh, well.

[Jewel Laurasia]

---

Starheart McMasters wrote:

Seems like most of the new clothing coming out is mesh now, and I really hate it. I'm not going to alter my shape just to fit one of five predetermined shapes for mesh! It falls right in to the media hype that says if we don't look a certain way we're not ok, which I think is abominable. And while there are some great styles in mesh, none of them fit right and look boxy and make me look really fat! I would never choose to wear stuff like that in real life, so why would I do it in Second Life? And forget the lovely movement of clothing when you dance. just does not happen. I just got a beautiful dress that shows my nipples. It came with directions to change--not the dress, but my body. Not going to happen. For this reason I will NEVER buy a mesh outfit unless there's great improvement, and the freebies I get will for the most part wind up in the trash. I have literally hundreds of outfits in my inventory so if I never get another new one, oh, well.

---

Mesh standard sizing has NOTHING to do with looking a certain way or you're not ok. It has EVERYTHING to do with creating a standard for the failed implementation of mesh, so creators can offer clothes that will fit. Creators don't have the time to make 50 different size offerings per outfit.

And wearing shorts with a prim between my legs to make it "look" like a miniskirt is crap. Mesh fixed that at least.

Some mesh outfits don't look that great. Some are incredible. Shoes look great in mesh as well. Depends on the creator though. And there are a lot of talented creators out there. Seems you missed quite a few of them.

 

 

[Madeline Blackbart]

---

Jewel Laurasia wrote:

---

Starheart McMasters wrote:

Seems like most of the new clothing coming out is mesh now, and I really hate it. I'm not going to alter my shape just to fit one of five predetermined shapes for mesh! It falls right in to the media hype that says if we don't look a certain way we're not ok, which I think is abominable. And while there are some great styles in mesh, none of them fit right and look boxy and make me look really fat! I would never choose to wear stuff like that in real life, so why would I do it in Second Life? And forget the lovely movement of clothing when you dance. just does not happen. I just got a beautiful dress that shows my nipples. It came with directions to change--not the dress, but my body. Not going to happen. For this reason I will NEVER buy a mesh outfit unless there's great improvement, and the freebies I get will for the most part wind up in the trash. I have literally hundreds of outfits in my inventory so if I never get another new one, oh, well.

---

Mesh standard sizing has NOTHING to do with looking a certain way or you're not ok. It has EVERYTHING to do with creating a standard for the failed implementation of mesh, so creators can offer clothes that will fit. Creators don't have the time to make 50 different size offerings per outfit.

And wearing shorts with a prim between my legs to make it "look" like a miniskirt is crap. Mesh fixed that at least.

Some mesh outfits don't look that great. Some are incredible. Shoes look great in mesh as well. Depends on the creator though. And there are a lot of talented creators out there. Seems you missed quite a few of them.

 

 

---

speaking of the fifty diffrent sizes even amongst the standrized sizing every maker is diffrent so you don't nessicarily need to change your shape just find the right maker.