Storm Clarence Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Dresden Ceriano wrote: What I would really not like to see seep back into the forum, is people posting threads, however carefully disguised, with the intended purpose of airing some grievance with an individual or group of individuals, formal or informal. The ability to use the English language should not be punishment to those that 'cleverly' do so. The inability to understand the English language, and the hyperemotional responses that ensue is what I really don't like. I have been RIC'd for using *sic* in my posts. Who then has the issue and grievance the person who writes well or the person who does not have the want or ability to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Ian Undercroft wrote: What's been lacking lately though, is a real, substantive issue for people to get their teeth into. 2008 saw the homesteads fiasco, 2009 the introduction of "adult" locations and 2010 display names. Since the RedZone outcry at the beginning of this year, all has been very quiet. I couldn't agree with you more. The GD has become a video forum and hugfest of late. If this is what everyone wants then OK. We have lost the ability to discuss any issues without 'offending' the sensibilities and emotions of a handful of posters. With no issues of importance to 'sink' our teeth into, then the posters will begin to eat each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayalily Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Forums could get rid of the problem of having to be PG only, but allocating a particular part of the forum for over 18 only; keeping it closed to the public, but allowed for a sign in with an 18 or over verification. I've often wondering why some forums don't do that? There is no reason adults should be so censored from our fun or discussions because we -- the adults -- are the one's paying for the internet in the first place. Children and teenagers still living off Mom and Dad, do not pay for the internet. Adult's should be allowed an adult internet since they/we/me/you are the main payees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kylie Jaxxon Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Wow, great to see some familiar faces Hi Chris....:matte-motes-sunglasses-1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Petrov Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 This was discussed with the Linden staff who administer this forum back in March or April. It was deemed too labor intensive or something; anyway, not on the top of their list of things to do. There used to be a subforum, Off Topic, that was viewable only when one logged into the forum (i.e.., outside the prying eyes of the wider interwebs). When the GD subforum was reintroduced, Off Topic ceased to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Norse Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Hi Kyllie! :matte-motes-sunglasses-2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Venus Petrov wrote: Dresden Ceriano wrote: What I would really not like to see seep back into the forum, is people posting threads, however carefully disguised, with the intended purpose of airing some grievance with an individual or group of individuals, formal or informal. I just think there are better places for that kind of behavior. But people will do what they want, right? ...Dres I agree, people will do what they want and people will read all sorts of things into a post. That is part of the drama. Its one thing when people have arguments like this because A types 'One thing' but B reads into it 'Another' - or they simply have a real dissagrement and properly with manners debate it. Its another when persons come in and make threads with the express purpose of getting a rise out of A or B's sensitive buttons. And its also another thing when people respond to a disagreement about 'One thing' with, not a comment about that 'One thing', but a personal attack on 'A'. Ie: rather than saying "no, blue is better than mauve", saying 'A is just a socialist'. Even saying 'anyone who like mauve is an idiot' is, while not great, better than 'A is just an idiot.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Ian Undercroft wrote: What's been lacking lately though, is a real, substantive issue for people to get their teeth into. 2008 saw the homesteads fiasco, 2009 the introduction of "adult" locations and 2010 display names. Since the RedZone outcry at the beginning of this year, all has been very quiet. This is kind of a good thing... I think all of have had enough of "substantive Issues" getting into our SL... But I think we kinda have one brewing over in the Mesh topics - and how people will feel as that content starts rolling out. Though possibly more drastic a change than some that have been drama fests in pasts, its also coming in more smoothly this time, so it might not become as major a drama flashpoint. But its 'out there.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Mayalily wrote: Forums could get rid of the problem of having to be PG only, but allocating a particular part of the forum for over 18 only; keeping it closed to the public, but allowed for a sign in with an 18 or over verification. My only problem with this is many would see 'over 18' as meaning 'rules of civility no longer apply.' Which it shouldn't, but on some certain third party forums, that's exactly what has occured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ima Rang Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 I hope that what my OP conveyed was not a message of bring back the hate. I know it comes up because I was routinely involved in feuds on the old GDF. Despite all the feuding/fighting, there was still a sense of community, and moreover, an opportunity to glimpse the personality of the posters. Some of the more fun posts that resulted in inworld activity or group developments were often due to thread derails or heavy subjects being lightened with a bit of levity. I see now, that even in a area called general discussion, that any attempt to go forth on an impromptu derail filled with humor and nothing more, is immediately pared back down through post ninjas to serious discussion as it relates to the thread topic. It is fine, civil, but IMHO, edits out the personality, uniqueness of the posters and the community. I posted the trailer for the upcoming Life 2.0 SL documentary that is airing this week on my blog. In the trailer, Philip makes a statement about virtual worlds (he may have said internet) that I found interesting. I'm sure I will mangle, but in paraphrase he said "In order for 'it' to be interesting, there has to be a sense of danger, a feeling that something can be gained or lost...that there may be pain involved," again, I paraphrased it all to heck, but you get the idea. My very not so obvious point is, that premise is not reflected in these forums, IMO. If this forum is the welcome mat to SL and a PR tool, should it not reflect the true nature of the grid instead of a forum that appears to be promoting a club penguinesque world that is being invaded by care bears? Sorry for the disjointed post...at work...trying to post in between meetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Pussycat Catnap wrote: Mayalily wrote: Forums could get rid of the problem of having to be PG only, but allocating a particular part of the forum for over 18 only; keeping it closed to the public, but allowed for a sign in with an 18 or over verification. My only problem with this is many would see 'over 18' as meaning 'rules of civility no longer apply.' Which it shouldn't, but on some certain third party forums, that's exactly what has occured. This. "Adult" is often a euphemism for "adolescent". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Villiers Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I'm glad I found this thread, because it's much how I feel as well; after being gone from SL for quite some time I came back this summer, and while at work and bored one day I decided to pull up the forums and was really disappointed by the changes... not the least of which being my old account and everything I added to it back then. The forums get their job done, but it's so clinical now. There used to be some fun, and now it's mostly so businesslike, and of course like any forum there are the few who have upteen thousand posts and think that for some reason, that means they carry some kind of authority- but even they're not fun to poke at anymore. It's still an ok way to kill time, and there's an interesting debate occaisionally, but the best one I've seen so far had the OP being called a troll for posting because it was controversial. Don't get me wrong; mindless trolling sucks and it should be discouraged, but when we get so concerned about trolls that we take away all the dissent then we're really losing something. Entertainment, mostly. Isn't that was SL is supposed to be about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Norse Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Well said Ima. /me hands Ima some was imported from Brazil. :smileywink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ima Rang Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 Pussycat Catnap wrote: Venus Petrov wrote: Dresden Ceriano wrote: What I would really not like to see seep back into the forum, is people posting threads, however carefully disguised, with the intended purpose of airing some grievance with an individual or group of individuals, formal or informal. I just think there are better places for that kind of behavior. But people will do what they want, right? ...Dres And its also another thing when people respond to a disagreement about 'One thing' with, not a comment about that 'One thing', but a personal attack on 'A'. Ie: rather than saying "no, blue is better than mauve", saying 'A is just a socialist'. Even saying 'anyone who like mauve is an idiot' is, while not great, better than 'A is just an idiot.' Why is insulting many, "anyone who," better than insulting one, "A is just an idiot." ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ima Rang Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 Pamela Galli wrote: Pussycat Catnap wrote: Mayalily wrote: Forums could get rid of the problem of having to be PG only, but allocating a particular part of the forum for over 18 only; keeping it closed to the public, but allowed for a sign in with an 18 or over verification. My only problem with this is many would see 'over 18' as meaning 'rules of civility no longer apply.' Which it shouldn't, but on some certain third party forums, that's exactly what has occured. This. "Adult" is often a euphemism for "adolescent". When I see statements like this I often wonder if I live on a different planet or something. Does every person over the age of 18 that you are friends with, work with, live near, engage with in passing, etc., act like they are a mature adult that never opens their mouth or responds to anything unless it is to impart for the enjoyment of all within ear shot some sage and reasonable advice, comment or expression, that makes angels sing, and even the wildest of animals stand up and salute and tear up in awe and admiration? I have a very visceral reaction when I see/hear Michele Bachmann, the walking hate crime, on tv. When Jon Stewart flames her, I laugh. Is that uncivilized and not a very adult reaction? Probably. However, I seriously doubt that my adolescent reaction in that circumstance is rare among the 18 and over crowd. I suspect though, that there are a few out there who find it a travesty for her to be ridiculed on an entertainment newsy show, on the internet, billboards...etc., If you were to agree with me regarding MB, then you would not regard my reaction as adolescent in nature...However, if you disagree....now I'm just an uncivilized adolescent who does not meet your standard of behavior. Civility and "adult" behavior....How restrictive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 wot? I was agreeing with Pussycat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Norse Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 These are such amazing forums. Such a springtime fresh feeling when you visit them. Sometimes Moderators have a hard time on forums. We should not make their jobs hard. Vaccum cleaners Suck up dirt, much like our mods clean up the bad posts, leaving every thing happy. Malted milk balls, Whoopers, are often eaten by people when they post on a forum. I think the malted milk makes them happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ima Rang Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 Pamela Galli wrote: wot? I was agreeing with Pussycat. Lol! Yes, I guess it was my very verbose way of saying that I don't completely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 @Pep: Brilliant. @Ima: I love the quote of Philip's, mangled or not... it makes me think about what SL was like when I first joined. I kind of thought there were things lurking around every corner, it was exciting and definitely a big part of why I liked it so much. The thing is, I'm not sure how that applies to a forum... I mean, what's to be gained and lost? From where is the pain supposed to be coming? My first thought wasn't about the old forum but this one and it's current state of moderation. Think about it... you post something and there will be the danger that it will be deleted if you step too close to some invisible boundary. Therefore, you loose the effort you put into writing it in the first place and that can be painful, I suppose. Something like "only the nice survive" or "the meek shall inherent the forum".... that is scary. But I just don't see the forum as a battlefield where one faction needs to be pitted against the other in a fight to the death in order to make it interesting. I would hope that there could be some sort of middle ground, so we can have interesting discussions without the fear of being beaten into the ground by some idiot with a grudge. That is far from what we have here and instead of fighting amongst ourselves about stupid interpersonal drama, we should be banning together to get what we feel is wrong corrected. The worst part is that the mods can easily see a post or thread that questions their performance and decide it needs to be pulled, therefore stifling our ability to effectively discuss the issue from the very start. And the fact that hardly anyone is getting told the reasons for the removals, makes it even more difficult. In a way, the work that's already been done was the easiest part. Getting everything situated, fixing broken links, tweaking things and stuff. Getting a GD forum back was a big step and something that I advocated for heavily. I kept saying that we needed a place to be... that there could be no sense of community without that. And I believe I was right... there is more of a sense of community here now. Only now we're faced with the question of what kind of community do we want it to be and will LL be willing to take the steps necessary in order for us to have it. Lexie might have to start stepping up the meetings (I spelled it meatings at first... lol) again if we all start chiming in about it... I really wish that would happen. I honestly think we all, or rather most of us, want the same thing. But who's willing to work for it? ...Dres *raises his hand* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Dresden Ceriano wrote: Only now we're faced with the question of what kind of community do we want it to be and will LL be willing to take the steps necessary in order for us to have it. Lexie might have to start stepping up the meetings (I spelled it meatings at first... lol) again if we all start chiming in about it... I really wish that would happen. I honestly think we all, or rather most of us, want the same thing. But who's willing to work for it? ...Dres *raises his hand* (this forum) should become a place where people can confidently play and disagree without being disagreeable. We seek to recruit more kindred spirits to make coherent arguments regarding the conduct of the forums to Lexie and her Mods. If we are successful then I am sure that we will be able to enjoy ourselves and develop the interest of lurkers and new joiners in participating confidently and comfortably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Ima Rang wrote: I hope that what my OP conveyed was not a message of bring back the hate. I know it comes up because I was routinely involved in feuds on the old GDF. Despite all the feuding/fighting, there was still a sense of community, and moreover, an opportunity to glimpse the personality of the posters. Some of the more fun posts that resulted in inworld activity or group developments were often due to thread derails or heavy subjects being lightened with a bit of levity. I see now, that even in a area called general discussion, that any attempt to go forth on an impromptu derail filled with humor and nothing more, is immediately pared back down through post ninjas to serious discussion as it relates to the thread topic. It is fine, civil, but IMHO, edits out the personality, uniqueness of the posters and the community. I posted the trailer for the upcoming Life 2.0 SL documentary that is airing this week on my blog. In the trailer, Philip makes a statement about virtual worlds (he may have said internet) that I found interesting. I'm sure I will mangle, but in paraphrase he said "In order for 'it' to be interesting, there has to be a sense of danger, a feeling that something can be gained or lost...that there may be pain involved," again, I paraphrased it all to heck, but you get the idea. My very not so obvious point is, that premise is not reflected in these forums, IMO. If this forum is the welcome mat to SL and a PR tool, should it not reflect the true nature of the grid instead of a forum that appears to be promoting a club penguinesque world that is being invaded by care bears? Sorry for the disjointed post...at work...trying to post in between meetings. I think that in one regard 'we' forced Linden Lab into a corner regarding the forums by 'our' inability to control ourselves. I am using the phrase 'we' because I don't want to get involved in pointing fingers. I do know how well the shoe fits will vary from poster to poster. Have you ever been in someone's house who didn't control their children? Have you ever had anyone visit you with their undisciplined children? How do you react when you are shopping somewhere and a parent is letting their kid run hog wild through the aisles? I once visited someone who was allowing their puppy to poop where ever it wanted. I can sure tell you that was not a pleasant experience. No one is saying that it is wrong for adults to have strong emotional responses. There are political and other issues that make my blood boil too. But as an adult I have learned that I need to take that deep breath and settle myself down, otherwise it is not possible for me to function and make a positive contribution. We talk about community. And there is a sense of community here. Participation in a community requires respect for the community. The problem in the old JIve forums was that when the community said to someone, "Please chill out a little," the response was essentially, "F*ck you." So we forced Linden Lab's hand. We refused to pick up our toys after ourselves, so they had no choice but to take away our toys. Things have loosened up some since the start of the Lithium forums. But I still don't blame Linden Lab one bit for maintaining a tight reign over this Forum. Do I think it is way too tight at times? Absolutely yes. But I prefer this over the blood baths of the old Jive forum. It is still something that we brought upon ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Storm Clarence wrote: (this forum) should become a place where people can confidently play and disagree without being disagreeable. We seek to recruit more kindred spirits to make coherent arguments regarding the conduct of the forums to Lexie and her Mods. If we are successful then I am sure that we will be able to enjoy ourselves and develop the interest of lurkers and new joiners in participating confidently and comfortably. I completely agree. I thought about creating a thread in the forum feedback forum (I snicker every time I write that) about the moderation issue(s) but I was afraid it would be moderated out of existence. Perhaps I should grow some balls and just do it. At least then we'd have a place where we can seriously discuss the stifling moderation, then that way, any post that goes off thread can become the victim of murderation or RICicide... lol. But that will have to happen later, because I'm exhausted and need to get some sleep before my brain looses what little bit of cognitive function it has left. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Petrov Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 /me raised her hand, too The CTUG is where we first met inworld, Dres. I hope to start attending again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canoro Philipp Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 i dont know how can they come and complain about how the forums are, when they didnt lift a finger to build it back, they decided to not come back until the forums fill their taste again, we, the ones who stick around build it from the ground up, making threads, commenting, answering questions, we build it this way and we like it, and we have a strong sense of community, its not the community you are used to and maybe dont like, but its not important if you dont percieve it, youre not gonna stick around anyway. the forums we have built are what they are, and we like it this way, if you dont, theres a lot of third party forums out there that you can enjoy. we the forumites that have build this forums are supposed to change it to fill their taste? how about we continue building it to fill our taste? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Petrov Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 EVERYONE is welcome to the SLF, old and new alike. New voices and old voices not heard from in awhile make this place richer for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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