Dresden Ceriano Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Venus Petrov wrote: Any post pulled without a PM from a mod can be queried and, then, a reason is to be provided. This is what we have been told by the team that administers the Forum. Some derails are fun and some are contentious. I do not mind either one as long as people can disagree without becoming disagreeable. Personally, I think any post pulled should get a PM or email, and in the case of lines of conversations being pulled, at least the first post in that line, as well as the posts that were so egregious that the line had to be pulled in the first place, should be notified. We shouldn't have to query the mods every time they pull something for no or highly questionable reason. If they were told they had to present us with a reason on a regular basis, then maybe they wouldn't pull as many posts to begin with. But that's just wishful thinking. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Petrov Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Dresden Ceriano wrote: Venus Petrov wrote: Any post pulled without a PM from a mod can be queried and, then, a reason is to be provided. This is what we have been told by the team that administers the Forum. Some derails are fun and some are contentious. I do not mind either one as long as people can disagree without becoming disagreeable. Personally, I think any post pulled should get a PM or email, and in the case of lines of conversations being pulled, at least the first post in that line, as well as the posts that were so egregious that the line had to be pulled in the first place, should be notified. We shouldn't have to query the mods every time they pull something for no or highly questionable reason. If they were told they had to present us with a reason on a regular basis, then maybe they wouldn't pull as many posts to begin with. But that's just wishful thinking. ...Dres I agree, Dres. Providing a reason that a post is pulled would serve as a 'check' on any unintended 'emotional' reactions by mods (after all, they are people, too) and help us understand what it was that caused the removal. It would also allow mods an opportunity to educate sensitive readers who report a post that does not violate any community standard. Win-win-win. Given the present situation, the onus is on readers to query. LL assumes a good number will choose not to. That is likely a safe assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Mistwood Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I guess I'll respond to the original post. I enjoyed the old forum . I enjoy the new forum. It is different, misses out on some of the eccentric personalities and seems to be a work in progress, but many of the posts and posters are still lively and colorful. If what you are after is drama, the trolling and flaming still goes on. If what you are after is 'being right', there are still plenty of people here to call you an idiot or accuse you of being brain damaged. If you have forgotten the difference between a fact and an opinion, someone will be here to remind you. If you get your jollies derailing threads, you can still do that. If judging others based on your own morals makes you feel superior, go for it. If you want to be hyper-sensitive to every dissenting comment, that is your right. If jumping at obvious baiting is your thing, someone will dangle a carrot in front of you and pop some popcorn. If the need to defend yourself outweighs the need to allow others their opinions, you have found a home here. In fact, if you feel your opinion is more right than mine, please feel free to let me know. Is it perfect? No. Is anything in life perfect? Probably not. I think the current forum is what each of us makes it. We all have the power to respond or not. Each of us finds different things fun. Even the ones who like to complain still return to do it over and over again. I enjoyed the old forum . I enjoy the new forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Cinnamon Mistwood wrote: I guess I'll respond to the original post. I enjoyed the old forum . I enjoy the new forum. It is different, misses out on some of the eccentric personalities and seems to be a work in progress, but many of the posts and posters are still lively and colorful. If what you are after is drama, the trolling and flaming still goes on. If what you are after is 'being right', there are still plenty of people here to call you an idiot or accuse you of being brain damaged. If you have forgotten the difference between a fact and an opinion, someone will be here to remind you. If you get your jollies derailing threads, you can still do that. If judging others based on your own morals makes you feel superior, go for it. If you want to be hyper-sensitive to every dissenting comment, that is your right. If jumping at obvious baiting is your thing, someone will dangle a carrot in front of you and pop some popcorn. If the need to defend yourself outweighs the need to allow others their opinions, you have found a home here. In fact, if you feel your opinion is more right than mine, please feel free to let me know. Is it perfect? No. Is anything in life perfect? Probably not. I think the current forum is what each of us makes it. We all have the power to respond or not. Each of us finds different things fun. Even the ones who like to complain still return to do it over and over again. I enjoyed the old forum . I enjoy the new forum. This is not only the most brilliant post I have seen anywhere in a long time, but one of the funniest! :smileyvery-happy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Venus Petrov wrote: Dresden Ceriano wrote: Venus Petrov wrote: Any post pulled without a PM from a mod can be queried and, then, a reason is to be provided. This is what we have been told by the team that administers the Forum. Some derails are fun and some are contentious. I do not mind either one as long as people can disagree without becoming disagreeable. Personally, I think any post pulled should get a PM or email, and in the case of lines of conversations being pulled, at least the first post in that line, as well as the posts that were so egregious that the line had to be pulled in the first place, should be notified. We shouldn't have to query the mods every time they pull something for no or highly questionable reason. If they were told they had to present us with a reason on a regular basis, then maybe they wouldn't pull as many posts to begin with. But that's just wishful thinking. ...Dres I agree, Dres. Providing a reason that a post is pulled would serve as a 'check' on any unintended 'emotional' reactions by mods (after all, they are people, too) and help us understand what it was that caused the removal. It would also allow mods an opportunity to educate sensitive readers who report a post that does not violate any community standard. Win-win-win. Given the present situation, the onus is on readers to query. LL assumes a good number will choose not to. That is likely a safe assumption. Most definitely. That's something specific that we can add to the CTUG agenda. I have a thought for another... the mods could lighten up on the derails that aren't hurting anyone, especially in the GDF, but really across the board... at least in the community forums. @Cinnamon: Another bravo!!! ...Dres ETA: By community forums, I meant the People forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maryanne Solo Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Why Ima? what's up with it ^^ :matte-motes-bashful-cute-2: and who are they anyways? this LWL he speaks of? :smileywink: My chagrin is at the pretense of masquerading as a contributor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Ima Rang wrote: Why is insulting many, "anyone who," better than insulting one, "A is just an idiot." ? Attacking the stance versus attacking the person. Attacking the stance would be, "mauve is a hideous color and deserves to be rejected as it looks like organ meat." Where, "anyone who likes mauve is an idiot" is attacking the group that likes mauve. Maybe my example is not ideal - but there are degrees of this. That is what I am trying to show. The ideal way to handle a disagreement is to attack the issue: "No there are not degrees, its a black and white world, and here are my examples / proof: (a), (b), ©." - The rational debate. Next down might be a generalized disdain for people of the opposing point: "It is foolish to think there are degrees of proper conduct." - About the end of where one can have a civilized conversation. Its fallen out of rational, but its not yet sunk into impossible to recover. Then you get to attacking people who hold the view as a group: "People who believe there are degrees of proper conduct are idiots." - The ideological stance (ex: "You Lie!" infamous shout out). There's a difference between this and the one right above it. One claims the view is foolish, the other claims one holding the view is foolish. And then you descend into just making personal attacks that are non-sequiters: "You're just a stupid socialist [four-letter-word]." - The misdirect with emotion tactic, but also often used by the genuinely non-intelligent. - Look to Fox News and the Tea Party Republicans (and their many placards showing Obama next to photos of apes or nooses) for plenty examples of using the last category anytime they're hit with an issue they would lose on in an honest debate of facts. This final form of non-sequiter attack is also the norm on some certain third party boards, and used to be common here as well. Many such third party boards defend allowing this kind of hostile chaos by claiming its in their 'political, off-topic, or adult' board. A few of the recent returnees (none so far in this thread that I can see) have been trying to use it here again. - There's no such thing as an 'adult' board that actually gets proper, topical, rational adult discussion. They always end up being allowed to descend into chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 How about attacking people that hold the view as an individual: "You are an idiot for thinking there are degrees of proper conduct." - Where does that fit in? Maybe between these two?... Pussycat Catnap wrote: Then you get to attacking people who hold the view as a group: "People who believe there are degrees of proper conduct are idiots." - The ideological stance (ex: "You Lie!" infamous shout out). There's a difference between this and the one right above it. One claims the view is foolish, the other claims one holding the view is foolish. And then you descend into just making personal attacks that are non-sequiters: "You're just a stupid socialist [four-letter-word]." - The misdirect with emotion tactic, but also often used by the genuinely non-intelligent. Just asking? ...Dres ETA: Hey, we could make a game of this... you give us various examples of degrees of trolldom and we try to stack them in the right order. Now we just need to think of a name... lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloise Baily Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Thanks Ima, and Storm. The sigh was a quiet hope that a small argument would fizzle out. It did YAY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orfeu Miles Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Some interesting reactions to the Oldbies poking their snouts into this thread. From: "Get off my lawn" :matte-motes-big-grin-evil: "Its the Oldbies fault we couldn't have nice things" "Whaddya mean this forum has no Personality….Personality, I haz it" to "Welcome back…help us fight the good fight". I see the universal propensity to whining hasn't abated much…although less couched in inflammatory swearing. So this incarnation of the SLF is now a Care-Bears picnic. Cool. I am psyched for y'all. :matte-motes-evil-invert: I would merely point out, that the voice of dissent is a useful thing…that people who disagree with us…and can state why in an eloquent and persuasive manner….are also builders of community. Furthermore…the original founding sentiments of SL, are built on a largeness of vision…an acceptance of danger, disagreement and loss…as well as an ability to co-operate and come together…. these ideals are in danger of being swept away by a glossy sanitized version of SL. What initially attracted me to SL…and this forum…was the variety of expression and viewpoint. A culture of tolerance towards difference. There are of course a very tiny minority who are downright trolls…with nothing useful whatsoever to contribute. Alas…this label is also used to stifle dissent…to tarnish those who simply disagree with us. You might well draw the line in a different place than I do. I would argue for a more inclusive spirit to the SLF. This includes accepting contrary opinions, and styles…without resorting to reporting to moderators….or off-handedly labeling people as trolls. Some peep's style is warm and cuddly…others prefer a sharp and abrasive discourse. Its a big world….a big Second Life…and a big Internet. So your style is different than mine. So What ?? @Cinnamon… Nice Post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canoro Philipp Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 nice interpretations of the text, im glad you got the right one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilhiamMeshTest Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 /me tosses an OED towards Pep' head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Petrov Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 @Cinn: You hit the nail squarely on the head. What you describe is also why I enjoyed the former GD and I enjoy SLF. It is why I prefer to post here. It is also why I (and others) worked hard with LL initially to help mold this forum into something many might enjoy. It is a work-in-progress. One person's troll is another person's freedom fighter. Or, something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Dresden Ceriano wrote: Again I'm speaking in general terms... it's not "their" forum... it's not "our" forum... it's actually LL's forum. I fail to see how an us versus them mentality will do us any good. ...Dres Dres, I agree with this. It is me that should have been more clear. I meant it as "us them" with them being other fora. Maybe it is about time we (this forum) win back some of our older readers and posters. Yes, other forum are important and people will continue to read and participate, however, I would like to see the ex-pat's come back and post to "their" forum, too - it all started here. If they don't want to particpate on SLF any longer, then I wish them the best of luck wherever they may end up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maryanne Solo Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Storm Clarence wrote: Your signature line really makes a statement about your post. ETA: It was wise of you to edit your signature. Now that you have done so, my post is negated. oooOOOooo and which of your 4035 posts might that be? repost it. bwahaha :matte-motes-yawn: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Maryanne Solo wrote: Storm Clarence wrote: Your signature line really makes a statement about your post. ETA: It was wise of you to edit your signature. Now that you have done so, my post is negated. oooOOOooo and which of your 4035 posts might that be? repost it. bwahaha :matte-motes-yawn: This post! Only Maddy can save this crew from themselves. I don't care what they do in-world, but the forum is a different place. Only Maddy can stop them from playing these games. It is about time she accepts the responsibility for the environment and tone of the current forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ima Rang Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 Maryanne Solo wrote: Why Ima? what's up with it ^^ :matte-motes-bashful-cute-2: and who are they anyways? this LWL he speaks of? :smileywink: My chagrin is at the pretense of masquerading as a contributor. Ha! Well, my dad always said when you are in a tit for tat battle, the first one off the tit wins! So congrats on your win through sig edit!:smileywink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raul Rehnquist Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Is this a new Pep forum persona ? Going from humorous and thought provoking to just plain ridiculous and pathetic ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ima Rang Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 Orfeu Miles wrote: I would merely point out, that the voice of dissent is a useful thing…that people who disagree with us…and can state why in an eloquent and persuasive manner….are also builders of community. True dat! I saw a news report last week discussing the fact that men and women who tend to be more aggressive and that are typically considered assholes at work, actually yield a higher salary than that of their always friendly and never disagreeable coutnerparts. I would post the link, but I can't access it at the moment. Assholes need love too Nice to see you here, BTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Mistwood Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Orfeu Miles wrote: Some interesting reactions to the Oldbies poking their snouts into this thread. From: "Get off my lawn" :matte-motes-big-grin-evil: "Its the Oldbies fault we couldn't have nice things" "Whaddya mean this forum has no Personality….Personality, I haz it" to "Welcome back…help us fight the good fight". I see the universal propensity to whining hasn't abated much…although less couched in inflammatory swearing. So this incarnation of the SLF is now a Care-Bears picnic. Cool. I am psyched for y'all. :matte-motes-evil-invert: I would merely point out, that the voice of dissent is a useful thing…that people who disagree with us…and can state why in an eloquent and persuasive manner….are also builders of community. Furthermore…the original founding sentiments of SL, are built on a largeness of vision…an acceptance of danger, disagreement and loss…as well as an ability to co-operate and come together…. these ideals are in danger of being swept away by a glossy sanitized version of SL. What initially attracted me to SL…and this forum…was the variety of expression and viewpoint. A culture of tolerance towards difference. There are of course a very tiny minority who are downright trolls…with nothing useful whatsoever to contribute. Alas…this label is also used to stifle dissent…to tarnish those who simply disagree with us. You might well draw the line in a different place than I do. I would argue for a more inclusive spirit to the SLF. This includes accepting contrary opinions, and styles…without resorting to reporting to moderators….or off-handedly labeling people as trolls. Some peep's style is warm and cuddly…others prefer a sharp and abrasive discourse. Its a big world….a big Second Life…and a big Internet. So your style is different than mine. So What ?? @Cinnamon… Nice Post ^^This post^^ I reposted because I thought it needed to be repeated... Once more: <snip> Its a big world….a big Second Life…and a big Internet. So your style is different than mine. So What ?? <snip> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Storm Clarence wrote: Dresden Ceriano wrote: Again I'm speaking in general terms... it's not "their" forum... it's not "our" forum... it's actually LL's forum. I fail to see how an us versus them mentality will do us any good. ...Dres Dres, I agree with this. It is me that should have been more clear. I meant it as "us them" with them being other fora. Maybe it is about time we (this forum) win back some of our older readers and posters. Yes, other forum are important and people will continue to read and participate, however, I would like to see the ex-pat's come back and post to "their" forum, too - it all started here. If they don't want to particpate on SLF any longer, then I wish them the best of luck wherever they may end up. Even though I was replying to your post, my reply wasn't aimed at you personally, but then you probably knew that... just making myself clear. I'd like to see the exforumites come back as well, but there has to be something to lure them back in... don't you think? Firstly, the moderation issues have to be dealt with and I intend to work to see that that happens. It's much needed whether they come back or not. Secondly, they have to be willing to throw themselves into the mix and give it some time to start developing into something more acceptable while still participating. I know that's something you've been working on from the outside. Maybe together, with the help of anyone willing, we can get something done. Though I can be cynical at times, I try to retain a core of optimism... however misguided that may be. I'm hoping, in this case, it's warranted. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Raul Rehnquist wrote: Is this a new Pep forum persona ? Going from humorous and thought provoking to just plain ridiculous and pathetic ? I sometimes type lol without actually laughing out loud... in this instance, this was not the case-> lol. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Ima Rang wrote: I saw a news report last week discussing the fact that men and women who tend to be more aggressive and that are typically considered assholes at work, actually yield a higher salary than that of their always friendly and never disagreeable coutnerparts. I would post the link, but I can't access it at the moment. Assholes need love too I saw that and found it quite interesting, though not surprising. Something about the perception that when something needs to get done they'll have the balls to do it... of course I'm paraphrasing from memory. @Orfeu: Great post... my favorite line was, "Some peep's style is warm and cuddly…others prefer a sharp and abrasive discourse." You nailed it with that. I'm pretty sure the two can coexist in one forum (there's that wretched optimism again... lol). ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kylie Jaxxon Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Ima Rang wrote: Orfeu Miles wrote: I would merely point out, that the voice of dissent is a useful thing…that people who disagree with us…and can state why in an eloquent and persuasive manner….are also builders of community. True dat! I saw a news report last week discussing the fact that men and women who tend to be more aggressive and that are typically considered assholes at work, actually yield a higher salary than that of their always friendly and never disagreeable coutnerparts. I would post the link, but I can't access it at the moment. Assholes need love too Nice to see you here, BTW It's probably because the friendly & never disagreeable ones, don't stand up for themselves...they let people walk all over them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canoro Philipp Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 pretty much. thanks for pointing out the grammatical error, ill fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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