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In Solidarity with Norway


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I just want to express my shock over yesterday's events in Norway, and my solidarity with those in Second Life who are Norwegian, or have been otherwise impacted by this horror.

We all mourn with you.  I'd like to think that everyone in Second Life is a Norwegian today.


"I have a message to whoever attacked us.  It's a message from all of Norway.  You will not destroy us.  You will not destroy our democracy, and our ideals for a better world.... No one will bomb us into silence.... We must never stop standing up for our values.  We must show that our open society will pass this test as well, and that our answer to violence is even more democracy, more humanity, but not more naiveté."
Norwegian Prime MInister Jens Stoltenberg

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Wow i just seen this..so far 85 just on the island so far and still finding more..a single gunman..thats just crazyness..then heads to the city and bombs the prime ministers office that had taken 7 more?


this man had to have some major insanity going on to do something like this..

it was a great statement from the prime minister..

 

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thank you :matte-motes-smile:

i don't live in oslo myself, and all my friends and family that live there are all safe and counted for and for that i am grateful.

but it's impossible not to be affected by this. norway is such a small country. still processing this. it's all very surreal. don't know exactly how to take it all in.

yesterday i was scared, until they could find out what exactly had happened and who was behind this. am still in shock, this just doesn't happen here. but it will change from shock to anger.

i'm just - wtf?

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bee, I'd be immensely proud if I were Norwegian today: your country has shown its strength and determination to survive this, and to refuse the temptation to become a more closed society as a result.

@Ceka -- and that's why I agree that the PM's statements are so wonderful. Saying "our answer to violence is even more democracy, more humanity" is . . . a pretty wonderful response to a tragedy that could well -- and understandably -- have sponsored a very different reaction.

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It was the other way around. First he set off the bomb, then he posed as a policeman coming to check security at the Youth Camp.

It was a devilishly well plan. Norwegian police is unarmed, but after such an event as the bombing, they are armed.  He showed false police ID and claimed he was there to check security and had information about the Oslo bombing. The Prime Minister was scheduled to talk in the Youth Camp the next day.

So when he came to the island, he asked to adress the pople in an infomation meeting, very polite and very formal. They said yes, of course. Then he started shooting. He even walked around on the island in over one hour, calling out that he was from the Police and that they were safe now. Some kids were tricked to came out and was shot.  He also shot wounded youngsters in the head as they were laying down, and shot at those trying to swim from the island. The Police forces were all gathered in Oslo to investigate after the bomb, so he had over one hour on the remote island. It is horrible. 

It is still 5 young people missing from the island massacre, and they have found unidentified body parts in the bombed out buildings in Oslo, so the death number may rise. 

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That's pretty similar to the message Bush gave after 911 and right before dismantling a lot of our Republic with the Patriot act.

Lets hope they fare better and wiser.

I know nobody wants to hear somebody saying that on the day after such an attack, and some will think me amazingly disrespectful and insensitive for doing so - but its the most important time to do so and to get watchful against government excess.

 

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As i recall, there were similar sentiments mouthed by Bush, yes, but also a great deal more bellicose posturing.

Norway isn't the USA.  I don't mean that as a criticism of America, a nation for which I have the greatest respect, but their traditions and political culture are very different. America is also very open, in its different way, and if it is true that 9/11 changed that, it is also true that there has been no shortage of American voices condemning the movement to a more closed society.

Tragedies can bring out the best -- and the worst -- in people, and in nations.

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Scylla Rhiadra wrote:

bee, I'd be immensely proud if I were Norwegian today: your country has shown its strength and determination to survive this, and to refuse the temptation to become a more closed society as a result.

@Ceka -- and that's why I agree that the PM's statements are so wonderful. Saying "our answer to violence is even more democracy, more humanity" is . . . a pretty wonderful response to a tragedy that could well -- and understandably -- have sponsored a very different reaction.

good strong leaders show up in times like these ..it is so important that they show strength and courage and that they show they are there to make sure people have someone there that will not be pushed around or scared into something..

no matter what they are democracy or what the countries believe in..a good leader will make the people know they are not gonna be swayed from their stances and we are only going to be stronger so that the people did not die in vain of this..

 

he is certainly a strong and intelligent leader from the sounds of his words..

 

 

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I think so too, Ceka. 

His restraint is particularly admirable given that it was clearly HIS government, HIS party, and probably his own person who were being targeted. This wasn't like 9/11, an indiscrimate attack on civilians.  It deliberately targeted the Norwegian Labour Party.

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I don't think so, Pussycat.

Sweden, Norway and Denmark is still very open countries, even after Swedish Prime Minister Olaf Palme was shot dead in 1986. A Norwegian publisher, William Nygaard, was shot three times by an assassin in 1993 after he had published Salman Rushdies book and a fatwa was issued. We are still very banal idealists and think that a car is just a car, not a potential bomb. Sigh. 

My first thought after the bomb on friday was that it was Libyan exstremists or Ansar Al-Islam who was behind it. .  But after the shootings on Utøya, it bacame clear that it was done by a Norwegian. In some way, it is good because the Right Wing would have used this for all it is worth if it was carried out by a man with an Islamic background. 

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Scylla Rhiadra wrote:

As i recall, there were similar sentiments mouthed by Bush, yes, but also a great deal more bellicose posturing.

Norway isn't the USA.  I don't mean that as a criticism of America, a nation for which I have the greatest respect, but their traditions and political culture are very different. America is also very open, in its different way, and if it is true that 9/11 changed that, it is also true that there has been no shortage of American voices condemning the movement to a more closed society.

Tragedies can bring out the best -- and the worst -- in people, and in nations.

i hate to see this drift to a bush thing because it's so not about us..but i just had to say..bush didn't make a believer out of me when i seen him at the podium after 9/11..i didn't feel better or like we could feel safe like someone was watchign out for us after hearing him..he never seemed strong leader to me ..he just looked like he was selling cars to a bunch of congressmen and women and to us..

i just didn't buy it..

i really haven't felt good about any of our leaders yet..

 

 

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Well, in times like this one needs, as you say, a leader who can articulate the feelings of the nation, but also channel them in positive ways.  I am very heartened by what I have heard coming from Norwegian leaders, and from the people.  Shock, immense sadness, and anger . .  but also a determination not to let this destroy the kind of tolerant society that they have built.

And that's pretty cool.

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Scylla Rhiadra wrote:

Well, in times like this one needs, as you say, a leader who can articulate the feelings of the nation, but also channel them in positive ways.  I am very heartened by what I have heard coming from Norwegian leaders, and from the people.  Shock, immense sadness, and anger . .  but also a determination not to let this destroy the kind of tolerant society that they have built.

And that's pretty cool.

i agree hehehe

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Marianne Little wrote:

It was the other way around. First he set off the bomb, then he posed as a policeman coming to check security at the Youth Camp.

It was a devilishly well plan. Norwegian police is unarmed, but after such an event as the bombing, they are armed.  He showed false police ID and claimed he was there to check security and had information about the Oslo bombing. The Prime Minister was scheduled to talk in the Youth Camp the next day.

So when he came to the island, he asked to adress the pople in an infomation meeting, very polite and very formal. They said yes, of course. Then he started shooting. He even walked around on the island in over one hour, calling out that he was from the Police and that they were safe now. Some kids were tricked to came out and was shot.  He also shot wounded youngsters in the head as they were laying down, and shot at those trying to swim from the island. The Police forces were all gathered in Oslo to investigate after the bomb, so he had over one hour on the remote island. It is horrible. 

It is still 5 young people missing from the island massacre, and they have found unidentified body parts in the bombed out buildings in Oslo, so the death number may rise. 

oh my.i misunderstood what i was reading or had read from the wrong information..sorry about that..

it had to be really planned out well to do it that way..

he must have figured the bombing would be a big distraction to be able to do the other part..

how evil of this person..seriously evil..

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Looking at comments and things said by this terrorist, it seems his main fears were 'socialists / marxists' and non-whites (reminds me a bit of one famous SL blogger). Its good to see that they are charging him with a terrorism offense. At least on MSNBC in the states, they've stopped calling him a terrorist - so far as I've checked, though they've been called out on that in comments also. Because this is a terror attack.

 

If he'd not been caught, it would have played right into the interests of such a right-wing fundamentalist type - to get the media to cast the attack as islamic / foreign. But he seems to have not only been caught, but voluntarily surrendered with at least one report I read saying he was desiring to talk with police.

 

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Nothing to be sorry for. We are still trying to understand that almost 100 people is killed.

Yes, he has to be a special sick and evil **bleep**. But intelligent too. He registred an agricultural company as early as in 2009, he rented a farm in April and ordered 6 tons of fertilizer in May! 

It may sound as a lot of fertilizer, but it is not unnormal for a medium sized farm, who often order a year's supply. And he was a farmer, so who can refuse to sell to him? He was a Freemason too, and registred in a local Pistol club and licenced to have weapons. 

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Yet apparently his Twitter and Facebook accounts were only a week old.

"Apparently" because there's been so much mistaken information.  "Fog of war" sort of thing.

Before this, I had no awareness of Norwegian neo-nazis.  So I don't know how apt the comparison, but from here it all feels so like Timothy McVeigh and Oklahoma City.  With extra fiendishness: before this, who would ever have thought a fatal bombing of government buildings to be merely a cover for the actual attack?

In any case. Tragic. 

One hopes Norwegians find a way to make something positive of this, in their recovery from the mourning.  The world's hearts are with them today.

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Met a guy from the Netherlands back in the early 90s who would flip between talking about wonderfully egalitarian the people up in that part of the world were, in one sentence, and then go on a rant against 'stupid non-white non-christian foreigners' getting out of hand in his country in the next sentence. I kinda dismissed him though since he had the brains of a pea...

But there's been a fringe movement up there for some time. Up until yesterday you could mostly shrug and say 'its just a fringe movement', despite one or two major political figures part of it, nothing like the scale of our Tea Party in the USA. But now its a fringe group with at least member willing to inflict terror.

 

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Unfortunately, Norway a country with a small population, has had numerous terrorist incidents over the years.   (population of around 4.9 million)  Here is the Global Terrorism Database's statistics maintained by the University of Maryland:

http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/Results.aspx?page=1&casualties_type=&casualties_max=&country=151&charttype=line&chart=overtime&ob=GTDID&od=desc&expanded=yes#results-table(

That data is separate from crime statistics.  

Sadly, this terrorist act in Norway was done by someone who is a self-professed "Christian"...which underscores how identifying people's values, actions, compassion, and ethics through group-labels often yields wrong conclusions.  

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I feel a bit guilty because when I read the grave news yesterday, my first thought was "this must be another terror attack by radical Muslims". As it turns out there was another fundamentalist ideology at work. And probably a great deal of insanity to boot, but that always seems to be the case when it comes to extremism.

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