Jackson Redstar Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 (edited) PBR is getting bad PR because of some of the issues with it, computer performance, etc... but it really is pretty spectacular when compare to the 'old' non PBR. This is a short video i took at Akimitsu using the latest FS PBR viewer with mirrors on. Great place to explore many other exhibits to check out too! sURL is in the video description Edited September 11 by Jackson Redstar 11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 4 minutes ago, Jackson Redstar said: PBR is getting bad PR because of some of the issues with it, computer performance, etc... but it really is pretty spectacular when compare to the 'old' non PBR. This is a short video i took at Akimitsu using the latest FS PBR viewer with mirrors on. Great place to explore many other exhibits to check out too! sURL is in the video description Thanks...that's truly beautiful! One of the first things I noticed about PBR was how much more vibrant and beautiful the particles are that I use in some presentations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasterscan Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 (edited) I am so torn. PBR looks breathtaking. But non pbr gives performance. Currently i can run firestorms last 32/64bit non pbr still officially available viewer, but when my partner comes on they look so stunning in PBR i switch to firestorms latest pbr viewer for some jaw dropping visual excellence and just close the SLPlugin.exe stopped working nags each time they appear. Edited September 12 by rasterscan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Gorky Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 That is lovely. Thanks for link, I shall visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagachief Darkstone Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 2 hours ago, rasterscan said: I am so torn. PBR looks breathtaking. But non pbr gives performance. Currently i can run firestorms last 32/64bit non pbr still officially available viewer, but when my partner comes on they look so stunning in PBR i switch to firestorms latest pbr viewer for some jaw dropping visual excellence and just close the SLPlugin.exe stopped working nags each time they appear. DeltaFPS's goal is to try and bring the viewer back to pre-pbr perf levels. I would suggest giving DeltaFPS a try. 7.1.10.10622905308 · Release Notes (secondlife.com) I've seen some people report in some cases doubling of FPS. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Peppermint Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 if you have issues with the current FS PBR viewer (I am sure there will be improvements), Alchemy is a great alternative option and seems to run just fine even on older computers. PBR is flicken amazing and opens so much more possibilities to create better visuals and better quality items without upping the rendering cost, but actually lowering it and that place shown in the first post looks absolutely stunning. I am going to get off my platform and go visit for a change 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 1 hour ago, Salt Peppermint said: if you have issues with the current FS PBR viewer (I am sure there will be improvements), Alchemy is a great alternative.. or for the Firestorm addicts, join the preview group inworld and get the download links to the beta version of the to be new version 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flea Yatsenko Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 There are several other merchants who have found PBR to be selling very well, as well as lots of customer feedback that says they enjoy using and building with PBR much more than baked lighting or even BP. There is strong evidence PBR is good overall, but the initial implementation is not the best. I've had a few customers say they are really impressed with PBR builds and what it brings, but they are waiting for the viewer bugs to get resolved. It's not my opinion, it's year over year sales data that's improved as well as evidence PBR stuff is outselling legacy content. And I'm not the only merchant experiencing this. Of course there's always people who blame merchants for wanting things to be easier for them, but if PBR was genuinely unpopular no one would be making it because the products wouldn't be selling. Kind of like how Sansar was a lot better to build for and technologically superior in every way, yet no one really made content because there wasn't the money to be made like in SL. It's not just that PBR is easier to build with and get good results as a content creator, it's more popular with customers, they enjoy it more, and it makes more L$. It's a net win for everyone except those who have older computers who struggle to run PBR. It's a new Linden Lab product, their launches always need a lot of polish. PBR is no exception, ALM, Windlight, etc were all the same with terrible launches and people saying it's going to kill SL and it's the end of everything, etc. There's no point in rushing into PBR, it's going to take a while for content to come out, everyone to get on a PBR viewer, etc. But with LL actively working on improving performance with the Delta viewer PBR really has potential to make SL a lot better. No reason to rush in and deal with bad performance if it's an issue for you, at least wait and see what they can do with the Delta viewer. But there is at least one Linden, Runetai (sp?) that really knows graphical programming. So I'm pretty optimistic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Redstar Posted September 13 Author Share Posted September 13 yes PBR will require more machine to run smoothly, but the 'heat' issue, from the GPU doing more work, can be mostly addressed by limiting the FPS which can be done in the viewer preferences. But honestly higher end graphic cards for the desktop will usually have more than adequate cooling. Laptops, yeah probably will want to limit FPS. Even though I have a 4070ti running now I just always limit my FPS to 36. More than smooth enough for a good experience in SL 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cackle Amore Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 (edited) On 9/12/2024 at 3:26 AM, rasterscan said: i switch to firestorms latest pbr viewer for some jaw dropping visual excellence and just close the SLPlugin.exe stopped working nags each time they appear. You been getting those too? Nice to know I'm not alone in that thing breaking. Anytime I select something with the edit menu open and anytime I cycle through a few tabs in a profile, that dang thing just keeps crashing itself. I recently even saw it pop up for a third thing but I've forgotten what it was that caused it. Supposedly has something to do with media and whatever that dullahan file does. It's become such an annoyance that I been starting to use alchemy more over firestorm since it doesn't seem to be plagued by that same issue. Edited September 13 by Cackle Amore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 1 minute ago, Cackle Amore said: On 9/12/2024 at 4:26 AM, rasterscan said: i switch to firestorms latest pbr viewer for some jaw dropping visual excellence and just close the SLPlugin.exe stopped working nags each time they appear. You been getting those too? Nice to know I'm not alone in that thing breaking. Anytime I select something with the edit menu open and anytime I cycle through a few tabs in a profile, that dang thing just keeps crashing itself. I recently even saw it pop up for a third thing but I've forgotten what it was that caused it. Supposedly has something to do with media and whatever that dullahan file does. It's become such an annoyance that I been starting to use alchemy more over firestorm since it doesn't seem to be plagued by that same issue. There is an entire thread dedicated to the "SLPlugin.exe" issues. @rasterscan In case you missed it and want to follow / catch up on that thread (not sure if this is the thread which has some Linden / Firestorm dev comments also): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximillon Lefavre Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 The real problem for me was that PBR completely changed the color of items and even made things that I have created with specific RGB settings appear different than their natural color. I've had textures things that are RGB black in their natural non-SL state now change and look purplish in the PBR SL state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Peppermint Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 (edited) 8 hours ago, WeFlossDaily said: PBR absolutely does not offer better quality at a reduced cost, and while the explicit inverse is also not true, PBR offers the opportunity for more quality for more cost. 8 hours ago, WeFlossDaily said: It absolutely does. You can use way smaller tiled textures because you do not have to bake in any lightning and shadow for example. You can also use LESS textures. which absolutely IS easier to render. The issues you are addressing are current viewer issues, (mainly the current FS) that are being worked on and not PBR as such. PBR has been the standard for every other game for years and LL is finally catching up. Are there bugs to be solved still? Of course there are. But yes , you can now absolutely create items with better quality for lower render cost because you don’t have to render items with 1928409374829 diffuses for “good quality” - as evidence shows in every other game SL competes with and does not blow up your gpu the amount of misinformation spread about PBR boggles my mind. While I am happy that LL finally is catching up with PBR, they definitely didn’t do a good job introducing and explaining it edit for typos Edited September 13 by Salt Peppermint 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeFlossDaily Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 (edited) Deleted. Edited September 14 by WeFlossDaily 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 1 hour ago, Maximillon Lefavre said: The real problem for me was that PBR completely changed the color of items and even made things that I have created with specific RGB settings appear different than their natural color. I've had textures things that are RGB black in their natural non-SL state now change and look purplish in the PBR SL state. Think of it as your new 'fantasy line'....you know...turning everything purple... ;0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeFlossDaily Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 (edited) Deleted. Edited September 14 by WeFlossDaily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynite00 Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 14 minutes ago, WeFlossDaily said: PBR doesn't even get the colors of things right yet. But wait, there's more. Now every color can be fatpack! Yeah the PBR many are showcasing right now, is not anywhere close to what PBR is supposed to look like. Just mirrors and extra shine is not PBR. A properly PBR implementation will take advantage of all materials supplied, and 'tell a story' about the object (reflectance, rust, weathering, wetness, bumps, etc) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Peppermint Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 24 minutes ago, WeFlossDaily said: PBR doesn't even get the colors of things right yet. this is PBR, the colors show exactly as they should, all of these are unedited (aside the obvious crop) raw shots, straight from SL. https://gyazo.com/008779a15bd479105bd2efb80f78efdd PBR highly depends on the surrounding and mimics the RL behavior of light reflecting on surfaces. so whatever colors are around you will affect your textures and the lower your roughness and higher your metalness is, the more it will affect and reflect the surrounding colors. So if you are not seeing colors correctly, it's most likely your surrounding , or your settings, specifically the use of previous wind lights / EEP that are not suitable for PBR in the slightest. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeFlossDaily Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 (edited) Deleted. Edited September 14 by WeFlossDaily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynite00 Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 (edited) Dogpile! Edited September 14 by Cynite00 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeFlossDaily Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 (edited) Deleted. Edited September 14 by WeFlossDaily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynite00 Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 (edited) 7 minutes ago, WeFlossDaily said: this is also true. I largely shut my mouth after somebody showed be what PBR looks like in polished games, because I understood when they showed me it for real that SL is not going to be able to pull that off with our extremely un-optimized everything. You are right igen. But also we must run our machines hotter for no sensible gain. I suppose this is also true. How are we suppose to pull this off, though? We don't have weather to cause most of these effects. Even the Zelda game with the wind thing on the ocean has us beat when it comes to weather and oceans that move like water in the ocean is suppose to. No, I meant 'weathering' as just a texture effect to age something, damage something, etc. PBR allows a lot of subtle details that as the poster stated, needs the proper lighting and environment to be seen. A rusted oil barrel, that is not just metal, but is worn from the sun, a logo "Big Oil" that was paint, but has chipped over time, metal has rusted and pits, has oil blobs that have leaked over time, has grass growing through the bottom, and is stained also from the moss and water.. It's a layered thing vs "Super shiney thing, it looks beautiful in SL's PBR!" we're seeing in pictures so far. Edited September 13 by Cynite00 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 17 minutes ago, Salt Peppermint said: this is PBR, the colors show exactly as they should, all of these are unedited (aside the obvious crop) raw shots, straight from SL Really???? These are shots of you? /me looks a bit doubtful 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeFlossDaily Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 (edited) Deleted. Edited September 14 by WeFlossDaily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Peppermint Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 31 minutes ago, Cynite00 said: That being said, that is probably a professional render from the 3d package, rather than shots from inworld - which is another peeve of mine. These are absolutely raw shots from SL cause I made them. I made all these items and I shot these raw shots. So no, these are no renders at all 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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