Cristiano Midnight Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 3 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said: but that is NOT the task of a meditation mantra group based onyoga/Eastern philosophies that is something YOU want to do, thats no bad lbgt pride month experience, but a bad decision of the course leader. Hardly. The pearl clutching over the word gay is the problem. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 No Pride? Shame, shame. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 Just now, Cristiano Midnight said: Hardly. The pearl clutching over the word gay is the problem. Luna screwed her own concept. Don't blame people who joined without being informed about the agenda. When she had prepared the whole thing there would have been a session spend on the expectations and content. She dropped it in the session and simply forced her own opinion on people again as usual. There's no need at all to mention gender or sexe in ány mantra group. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristiano Midnight Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: No Pride? Shame, shame. Someone doesn't have to celebrate or even acknowledge pride (though complaining loudly about why lgbt people have pride or where is straight pride is lame). That is not the issue. It was the "don't say gay!" reaction that was. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristiano Midnight Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 1 minute ago, Alwin Alcott said: Luna screwed her own concept. Don't blame people who joined without being informed about the agenda. When she had prepared the whole thing there would have been a session spend on the expectations and content. She dropped it in the session and simply forced her own opinion on people again as usual. There's no need at all to mention gender or sexe in ány mantra group. She offered no opinion and forced no agenda. My god, she said the word gay! How dare she! I am so offended. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 38 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: Would people object if a singer was referred to as a Nationality? Would Mongolian Throat singer be shoving Mongolia in your face? Buddist chanter? The Irish Lads? Mentioning something that the singer themselves makes public is perfectly fine with me. In today's climate, some people might feel offended if one introduced the music by saying the artist were Israeli, Palestinian, Russian or Ukrainian. In other times of war and strife, some people might feel offended if one mentioned that an artist were Iranian, Irish, Cuban, Japanese, Korean or Vietnamese. People are weird, and sometimes take other people's identity as some kind of affront to them personally. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 This requires "code switching". The reason someone may feel "looked down upon" during Pride, is if they feel those celebrating "don't know their place". I hope that sounds familiar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 4 minutes ago, Cristiano Midnight said: Someone doesn't have to celebrate or even acknowledge pride (though complaining loudly about why lgbt people have pride or where is straight pride is lame). That is not the issue. It was the "don't say gay!" reaction that was. I was just making a general statement. The opposite of "Pride" is "Shame". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristiano Midnight Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said: I was just making a general statement. The opposite of "Pride" is "Shame". And not lost is the fact that endless shame led to the need for pride. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Cristiano Midnight said: My god, she said the word gay! How dare she! I am so offended. she got annoyed that somebody had other thoughts than her's that's all. I made my point and you did also, i have nothing to add. Quote She offered no opinion and forced no agenda. do we know the same Luna? Edited June 16 by Alwin Alcott 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said: In today's climate, some people might feel offended if one introduced the music by saying the artist were Israeli, Palestinian, Russian or Ukrainian. In other times of war and strife, some people might feel offended if one mentioned that an artist were Iranian, Irish, Cuban, Japanese, Korean or Vietnamese. People are weird, and sometimes take other people's identity as some kind of affront to them personally. There really isn't much stuff like that thatwould offend me regardless of the global situation. I would take offense at derogatory adjectives used to describe a person but not just a fact. This Cuban, bisexual, red-headed, tall, blue eyed person? Nah, who has time for that. Edited June 16 by Rowan Amore 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristiano Midnight Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 8 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said: she got annoyed that somebody had other thoughts than her's that's all. I made my point and you did also, i have nothing to add. do we know the same Luna? I just fail to see how simply mentioning a gay Japanese artist is promoting an agenda. I have no opinion on Luna as I don't know her. On its face, though, it seems much ado about nothing for someone to be outraged that she dared speak the word gay. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istelathis Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 15 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said: In today's climate, some people might feel offended if one introduced the music by saying the artist were Israeli, Palestinian, Russian or Ukrainian. In other times of war and strife, some people might feel offended if one mentioned that an artist were Iranian, Irish, Cuban, Japanese, Korean or Vietnamese. People are weird, and sometimes take other people's identity as some kind of affront to them personally. I think our society may have hit peak laziness at this point, rather than take the time to evaluate what is being introduced on many merits, they focus on one thing. It is a shame really, but that is the unfortunate way we seem to have been conditioned. I mean, especially conditioned on social media as of late, as well as the regular old media, they make things simple and easy for everyone. To heck with going through the trouble of living in this huge chaotic mess of a world we call earth, sit back, and have everything figured out in just a few moments with these easy steps! 🤣 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 1 hour ago, Codex Alpha said: No one said you couldn't mention anything you wanted, just that don't be offended if someone takes an issue with it, and gives you a reason WHY they have an issue with it. The context would be important too. Is the 'fact' introduced because it's relevant, or is it 'to make a point'. You don't have to agree with a person, but it helps to understand where they're coming from. Would you feel offended if a teacher of a class in SL wore a gay pride T-shirt? What if they wore a Christian pride T-shirt? What if they wore a hijab? What if they wore a Black Lives Matter T-shirt? What if they wore a T-shirt with a Russian or Ukranian flag? What if they wore a T-shirt with an upside down American flag? What if they wore a T-shirt with a Nazi flag? Clothing can be a kind of speech as well as a symbol of the wearer's identity. Would some kinds of symbolic speech be offensive to you? Why or why not? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 (edited) 2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: I have a Mantra class in SL where we sing songs of love each week, usually based on yoga/Eastern philosophies, but sometimes I find songs to bolster certain groups of people who are disadvantaged when we're having a celebration marking their existence (for example...Juneteenth, Pride month, Martin Luther King birthday). One week I featured Yogi's who were African-American for Junteenth, and for Pride month I featured songs by those in the LGBTQ+ community. So for Pride in June, as I was introducing a song, I simply said this was a song by a Japanese gay woman, and one of the attendees said she and her husband found it disgusting that gay artists were introduced in that way via speaking about what they do in bed. She went on to say, however, that she found sex in general icky. I tried to explain that I haven't seen a lot of videos on YouTube about Japanese gay women, and that they are not represented well in society, and so I wanted to give a shout out to them. That in the month of June maybe this woman could be recognized for who she is, with pride. That I was basically just giving a bit of love her way. It just really floors me that people don't understand what Pride month is about and why it's needed. Many don't have any notion of the disadvantage this minority still encounters and think it's totally about sex, even in SL. This circumstance embodies much of what I see causing mistrust and animosity in our social norms today. Just because someone feels uncomfortable by something another says does not grant permission to be rude and disruptive. Luna was hosting the event. A guest, IMO, should be respectful of the host. The guest does not have to agree with statements made by the host, but reacting in response to your feelings should be done privately if at all, and certainly not in the midst of introducing an artist. The guest is certainly within her right to host any event she plans as she likes, and Luna would be in error to cause a scene at that event even if Luna is adamantly opposed to the viewpoint stated at said event. If a person is so outraged that they feel the need to react immediately, then standing up and walking out without a vocal response, IMO, is the best response. We are loosing civility in our social interactions. Respect has dwindled to the point of being nearly non-existent. I applaud Luna for hosting an event that showcased LGBTQ+ artists during Pride month! Edited June 16 by Blush Bravin 7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 1 minute ago, Persephone Emerald said: Would you feel offended if a teacher of a class in SL wore a gay pride T-shirt? What if they wore a Christian pride T-shirt? What if they wore a hijab? What if they wore a Black Lives Matter T-shirt? What if they wore a T-shirt with a Russian or Ukranian flag? What if they wore a T-shirt with an upside down American flag? What if they wore a T-shirt with a Nazi flag? Clothing can be a kind of speech as well as a symbol of the wearer's identity. Would some kinds of symbolic speech be offensive to you? Why or why not? Gotta be careful here, all sorts of logos and slogans and things are considered offensive and not allowed in SL or otherwise. If we start down that route, there's good reasons to ban all pride (in anything, not just the rainbow) shirts. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 37 minutes ago, Cristiano Midnight said: Some people seem to view any mention of a marginalized group as being somehow throwing it in their face. When you are the default, other people having equality feels like oppression. If for example you are outraged seeing two men kissing in public but not a man and a woman, you are the problem. If you don't like PDAs at all, that is a different case. As far as highlighting the singer's sexuality. there is much more to being gay than what someone does in the bedroom. Straight people aren't reduced to that, but somehow gay people always are. Luna also clearly stated that it wasn't just about gay people but that the person found sex in general icky. Quote she and her husband found it disgusting that gay artists were introduced in that way via speaking about what they do in bed. She went on to say, however, that she found sex in general icky. You do seem to be grasping here to find an offence when there didn't seem to be other then sex in general and we don't know to what degree Luna happened to mention how a gay woman has sex with another woman. With Luna that could have been pornographic There are enough people out there and even here in SL that find any aspect of sex, whether gay or hetero, to be icky. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristiano Midnight Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said: Luna also clearly stated that it wasn't just about gay people but that the person found sex in general icky. You do seem to be grasping here to find an offence when there didn't seem to be other then sex in general and we don't know to what degree Luna happened to mention how a gay woman has sex with another woman. With Luna that could have been pornographic There are enough people out there and even here in SL that find any aspect of sex, whether gay or hetero, to be icky. Right, but being gay is not interently about sex. So that is more in that woman's mind than anything said. I don't know exactly what Luna said, but it is still preposterous to be upset at the word gay. I wonder if she would have had a heart attack if she said trans. 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 2 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said: This circumstance embodies much of what I see causing mistrust and animosity in our social norms today. Just because someone feels uncomfortable by something another says does not grant permission to be rude and disruptive. Luna was hosting the event. A guest, IMO, should be respectful of the host. The guest does not have to agree with statements made by the host, but reacting in response to your feelings should be done privately if at all, and certainly not in the midst of introducing an artist. The guest is certainly within her right to host any event she plans as she likes, and Luna would be in error to cause a scene at that event even if Luna is adamantly opposed to the viewpoint stated at said event. If a person is so outraged that they feel the need to react immediately, then standing up and walking out without a vocal response, IMO, is the best response. We are loosing civility in our social interactions. Respect has dwindled to the point of being nearly non-existent. I applaud Luna for hosting an event that showcased LGBTQ+ artists during Pride month! You go totally around a important fact in the total ; it is a mantra meditation group, not just some event. Participating in such meditation is no guest as on any event. As the meditation leader isn't just a host, they have to provide a safe and neutral guidance. They come for a very specific reason. And that's not the meditation leaders bubble of personal interest. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Mote Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 Persona playing and identity politics have nothing to do with love, as that what the event's marketed as. It's problematic in first life too, where secular westerners tend to hijack everything to twist it around into something else entirely, kirtans included. It's not just an SL issue. People are going to give feedback on it, and it's not all going to be favorable or complementary. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 1 minute ago, Alwin Alcott said: You go totally around a important fact in the total ; it is a mantra meditation group, not just some event. Participating in such meditation is no guest as on any event. As the meditation leader isn't just a host, they have to provide a safe and neutral guidance. They come for a very specific reason. And that's not the meditation leaders bubble of personal interest. Nope. Respect is respect. The guest could simply get up and leave. I'm over the overreaction of those who don't feel safe and imposing limits on those who are doing the organizing. If the guest didn't feel safe, then leave, and start her own class. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 1 minute ago, Blush Bravin said: Nope. Respect is respect. The guest could simply get up and leave. I'm over the overreaction of those who don't feel safe and imposing limits on those who are doing the organizing. If the guest didn't feel safe, then leave, and start her own class. When you go out for dinner and order steak, but they come with a veggy burger, you don't let them know you don't appreciate their menu change? 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayashe Ninetails Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 38 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said: In today's climate, some people might feel offended if one introduced the music by saying the artist were Israeli, Palestinian, Russian or Ukrainian. In other times of war and strife, some people might feel offended if one mentioned that an artist were Iranian, Irish, Cuban, Japanese, Korean or Vietnamese. People are weird, and sometimes take other people's identity as some kind of affront to them personally. Yep. Unfortunately, this does happen to be a thing. I listen to a lot of artists from around the globe - some who take a rather strong stance one way or another in their music. I'd be hesitant to even mention that I like a few of them depending on who was around. I could *easily* see fights breaking out over it, assuming they were familiar with them and their discographies to begin with. I find an artist's orientation matters very, very little, however. A few of the musicians I listen to do reference LGBTQ+ issues in their songs here and there, but others who are in the community may not do that much, if at all. There are those who absolutely make it an integral part of their artist identity, though, and in that case, I could totally see including it in their introductions. 7 minutes ago, Cristiano Midnight said: On its face, though, it seems much ado about nothing for someone to be outraged that she dared speak the word gay. That's my read of it, too. I don't personally see a need to call it out (same as I wouldn't really need to be introduced with all of my particulars), but it isn't at all as big of a deal as the woman made it. The bed comment is just bizarre, too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristiano Midnight Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 4 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said: You go totally around a important fact in the total ; it is a mantra meditation group, not just some event. Participating in such meditation is no guest as on any event. As the meditation leader isn't just a host, they have to provide a safe and neutral guidance. They come for a very specific reason. And that's not the meditation leaders bubble of personal interest. So it wasn't like she was humming the lyrics to an Indigo Girls song, she noted it was a Japanese gay artist. If the person was anti-Asian and had issue with her saying Japanese, would the same apply? Is it all on Luna to protect the snowflake's safe space? 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristiano Midnight Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 1 minute ago, Alwin Alcott said: When you go out for dinner and order steak, but they come with a veggy burger, you don't let them know you don't appreciate their menu change? Today seems to be the day of disingenuous comparisons in this forum. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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