So let's play fair

[Ayashe Ninetails]

3 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

IN all that is holy can someone tell me where all these naked avatars are!!!!

I'm begging you. 

I just did! Tho not nekkit entirely. Ummmm, I did see a mature public sandbox in a recent-ish Second Life video with nekkie avies standing around, so I guess that's a thing? I haven't been to a sandbox that isn't Builder's Brewery in a million years, so I can't vouch for the accuracy.

[Kathlen Onyx]

3 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Anyone who has been shopping in SL for more than a couple months should fully expect to see naked avatars at shopping events.

I think, I could be wrong, but what I take brodiac's argument to be addressing is more specifically the issue of near/complete nakedness as a means of being sexually provocative. 

Then I must be shopping when all the nakie avatars are sleeping because not ONE time have I seen a naked avatar while shopping in the six years I've been here.

However, you and @brodiac90seem to see quite a few. This confuses me. 

Would you like LL to specify what outfits are not near nude? Maybe they should just dictate what each avatar should wear. THAT will go over well. They gave guidelines. Because @brodiac90sees a avatar as provocatively sexual in a skimpy bathing suit does not mean it's against any rule.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

Just now, AmeliaJ08 said:

Senra Blake and Jamie are supposed to be adult bodies though? weird they chose that to demonstrate..

They were not about to

A) Spend money buying Tiny Toxic Terror Tot avatars, and

B) They can't and won't PUBLICLY show any brand favouritism, and

C) Sux-Ra Noob Island avatars are so generally ugly, there's NO danger of anyone finding the pics of "fake children" provocative..

 

So the choosing Sux-Ra isn't strange at all.

[Blush Bravin]

6 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

IN all that is holy can someone tell me where all these naked avatars are!!!!

I'm begging you. 

Would you consider it nakedness if a persons full naked v*jayjay is visibly hanging out under a belt masquerading as a skirt? I do.

[Psyche Starling]

1 minute ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

Then I must be shopping when all the nakie avatars are sleeping because not ONE time have I seen a naked avatar while shopping in the six years I've been here.

However, you and @brodiac90seem to see quite a few. This confuses me. 

Would you like LL to specify what outfits are not near nude? Maybe they should just dictate what each avatar should wear. THAT will go over well. They gave guidelines. Because @brodiac90sees a avatar as provocatively sexual in a skimpy bathing suit does not mean it's against any rule.

I sometimes see the "not rezzed nakie" phenomenon, but it's not sexy at all, because they are usually also a cyclops if it's that laggy.

[Rowan Amore]

50 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

When you have string bikinis that are basically a thong in the front, where both sides of the l*bia are hanging out, and the smallest little spot that doesn't actually cover the full nipple that might as well be naked.

Even I find this rather disgusting when I'm out and about.  I chalk it up to more of the LOOK AT ME thing and roll my eyes.  They aren't unique or edgy or anything, they're sheep, IMO.  I can go to any adult club right now and see at least 1/2 dozen of those looks.  

[Zalificent Corvinus]

9 minutes ago, Dorientje Woller said:

If there is only one option, in this case "I Agree", makes every EULA, ToS, Roc or whatever you call it, simply "Null & Void" under the laws of the European Union, because you're denying one party the choice. It's FORBIDDEN to present EULA's, ToS, RoC's and so one without an alternative.

Wrong, because there IS an alternative.

Don't agree and don't use the service.

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I think, I could be wrong, but what I take brodiac's argument to be addressing is more specifically the issue of near/complete nakedness as a means of being sexually provocative. 

Ok. I failed to read that into it. 🙂

7 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

added: I want to be clear. I am offering this point of view not as something to be taken as wanting rules to change or that accommodations should be made, but more as a vehicle for understanding someone else's viewpoint that may be completely not in line with your own views. I think a huge problem we've had since this became an issue is a lack of understanding or empathy for both sides of the issue.

Understood - and that's why I asked Brodiac what I asked (he's in a different time zone, but of course I would not fault him if my questions seemed annoying). To "understand" why it was "a problem".  🙂

I do hope you see the general point I'm trying to make though, that sometimes if someone has "a problem" with something in Second Life, it's ok.  There's not much that can be done about it, if whatever caused "the problem" for them was following the rules, beyond their control, etc. 

I personally try to read too much into some of the complaints, as if "adults need to make Mature land more acceptable for child avatars". (Some general sense of entitlement.)

 

[Kathlen Onyx]

2 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I just did! Tho not nekkit entirely. Ummmm, I did see a mature public sandbox in a recent-ish Second Life video with nekkie avies standing around, so I guess that's a thing? I haven't been to a sandbox that isn't Builder's Brewery in a million years, so I can't vouch for the accuracy.

Thank you! I had to go back and read the chat was going so fast.

Honestly, I do the same. I've seen some odd things in SL while out. Mind you not naked but a "what were you thinking" odd. 

I just laugh and go about my business.

If things like this bother people so much, and I really hate to say this,  BUT maybe this isn't the environment for you. 

This is not directed at you @Ayashe Ninetails

You are roleplaying a child. You are NOT a child. You know that SL is made up of things the community creates. Not everyone has the same morals and judgments as you do.  AGAIN, you are NOT a child!!!!

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

12 minutes ago, Dorientje Woller said:

If there is only one option, in this case "I Agree", makes every EULA, ToS, Roc or whatever you call it, simply "Null & Void" under the laws of the European Union, because you're denying one party the choice. It's FORBIDDEN to present EULA's, ToS, RoC's and so one without an alternative.

Wrong, because there IS an alternative.

Don't agree and don't use the service.

In addition to "not using the service", don't users in some countries have the right to have their data deleted, etc. if they don't agree to the terms? (Similar to the "right to be forgotten".)

 

[Alwin Alcott]

12 minutes ago, Dorientje Woller said:

If there is only one option, in this case "I Agree", makes every EULA, ToS, Roc or whatever you call it, simply "Null & Void" under the laws of the European Union, because you're denying one party the choice. It's FORBIDDEN to present EULA's, ToS, RoC's and so one without an alternative.

what happens if you deny accepting your windows license? apple license? Android License? Office licensen? ISP contract, licensing and fair use policy?

i can assure you ; nothing

really nothing will happen, with some luck only a blue screen,  the whole digital world will be locked.

[Kathlen Onyx]

5 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Would you consider it nakedness if a persons full naked v*jayjay is visibly hanging out under a belt masquerading as a skirt? I do.

It's pretty darn easy if you see that to aim your camera away from it if it gives you so much bother.  Another option is click the tag and choose "derender". You can also click "see friends only"  There are many options available to instantly not see it.

Take some personal responsibility if it bothers you that much.  The rules say it's allowed and SL isn't going to change it because a few child avatars don't want to see nakie avatars.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

In addition to "not using the service", don't users in some countries have the right to have their data deleted, etc. if they don't agree to the terms? (Similar to the "right to be forgotten".)

 

Yes, but that's almost always a separate application. not an option in "I won't agree to obey the rules and must now sod off elsewhere" option.

It's not "automatic", and for good reasons.

[Rowan Amore]

16 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

IN all that is holy can someone tell me where all these naked avatars are!!!!

I'm begging you. 

Go to the Sabbath event that's on Moderate land.  1/2 the women there had the p*ssy floss and boobs hanging out.  It was rather amusing.

[Kathlen Onyx]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Go to the Sabbath event that's on Moderate land.  1/2 the women there had the p*ssy floss and boobs hanging out.  It was rather amusing.

Thanks! I have a new outing for me and my bestie to go to. We love stuff like that. Well, I do. I usually have to kinda talk her into it but eventually she'll go. LOL

Do we need to dress like that too? Don't want to feel out of place.  I'm sure I have something in my inventory for that. Most likely a freebie from Scandelize.

Edited May 22 by Kathlen Onyx

[Ayashe Ninetails]

6 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Would you consider it nakedness if a persons full naked v*jayjay is visibly hanging out under a belt masquerading as a skirt? I do.

Ugh. I've gotten in the habit of derendering avies if I show up somewhere with more than a tiny handful of people. That attachment thing is nightmare fuel and I'm good never seeing it again.

 

3 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

Thank you! I had to go back and read the chat was going so fast.

Honestly, I do the same. I've seen some odd things in SL while out. Mind you not naked but a "what were you thinking" odd. 

I just laugh and go about my business.

If things like this bother people so much, and I really hate to say this,  BUT maybe this isn't the environment for you. 

This is not directed at you @Ayashe Ninetails

You are roleplaying a child. You are NOT a child. You know that SL is made up of things the community creates. Not everyone has the same morals and judgments as you do.  AGAIN, you are NOT a child!!!!

Oh no worries! The thread is moving pretty fast. 😄

And I agree with you - if you're in SL, you're going to see some ish. Unless you only ever venture out into General land (and I wouldn't even trust that to be honest), it's impossible to curate the perfect PG experience. You can help that by turning off sounds, derendering avatars, and cam shopping. Just gotta get used to ignoring things, really.

[Jaylinbridges]

23 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

IN all that is holy can someone tell me where all these naked avatars are!!!!

At Nude only beaches in M-rated land.  They always have privacy turned on for the naked parcel, and you need to be in the group to enter.  So you won't see them unless you join the Nude beach group, usually for a high fee, to keep out griefers.

There are a bunch of them, but if you are not into nudity, you would have no reason to know.

With the new rules, a few on M-regions now require beach clothing as a precaution for adults.  Some only make beach clothing optional. 

And some make beach clothes optional for Adults, and assume the under 18 will already be covered up since the new rules.  These owners are violating the new TOS, since no under 18 looking avatars are allowed near naked adults, on a business that advertises as a nude beach, family friendly or not.  I have noticed the prior teens have suddenly aged to 18+.  One suddenly became 26. They grow up fast in SL.

 

Edited May 22 by Jaylinbridges

[Love Zhaoying]

14 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Would you consider it nakedness if a persons full naked v*jayjay is visibly hanging out under a belt masquerading as a skirt? I do.

It depends, are we talking "skirt steak", "meat flaps", "meat curtains", or just "camel toes"?

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

I'm sure I have something in my inventory for that. Most likely a freebie from Scandelize.

Voluptas Virtualis do a "string bikini" that is literally dermal piercings connected by string.

 

[Rowan Amore]

19 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

added: I want to be clear. I am offering this point of view not as something to be taken as wanting rules to change or that accommodations should be made, but more as a vehicle for understanding someone else's viewpoint that may be completely not in line with your own views. I think a huge problem we've had since this became an issue is a lack of understanding or empathy for both sides of the issue.

I'm all for people being able to express themselves however they choose to in SL.  It's what it's all about.  I, personally, take into account WHERE I'm planning to go when I get dressed.  I don't feel the need to have this and that on display if I'm shopping or exploring.  If I'm going to the beach or an adult region, I might be a little more exposed...or not.  

I think a lot of SL has just become desensitized to nudity which just makes some try to be more extreme in their nudity if that makes sense.  

[Kathlen Onyx]

1 minute ago, Jaylinbridges said:

At Nude only beaches in M-rated land.  They always have privacy turned on for the naked parcel, and you need to be in the group to enter.  So you won't see them unless you join the Nude beach group, usually for a high fee, to keep out griefers.

There are a bunch of them, but if you are not into nudity, you would have no reason to know.

With the new rules, a few on M-regions now require beach clothing as a precaution for adults.  Some only make beach clothing optional. 

And some make beach clothes optional for Adults, and assume the under 18 will already be covered up.  These owners are violating the new TOS, since no under 18 looking avatars are allowed near naked adults, on a business that advertises as a nude beach, family friendly or not.  I have noticed the prior teens have suddenly aged to 18+.  One suddenly became 26. They grow up fast in SL.

 

The only nude beach I"ve been to was SDI and that one women can wearing bathing suits but men must be naked. 

I didn't go so much for the nude avatars or even adult stuff. I just found that people will actually IM and talk to you at those places and really not sexual IM's either which you'd expect. They are just more outgoing.

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

I think a lot of SL has just become desensitized to nudity which just makes some try to be more extreme in their nudity if that makes sense.  

Yes, it makes perfect sense.

In general, "desensitization" is how things got so.."extreme" in the first place.

 

[Rowan Amore]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

It depends, are we talking "skirt steak", "meat flaps", "meat curtains", or just "camel toes"?

 

Just look up Phat P*ussy on the MP...or don't.

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

We all have choices to make based on the rating of the region we are in, the TOS, and whether we consider others when making those choices. 

There will always be people who purposely skate right along the lines of the rules and sometimes cross it in typical edge-lord style.

I am not likely to change what I do when inworld, but I've always been respectful in regards to others.

Before the new TOS changes, I followed the spirit of the rules.  When visiting G regions, I remove anything that might be considered adult, make sure I have modesty layers, and wear appropriate clothing. 

The spirit of G regions being things you can wear and do in front of the stereotypical granny. (Not your vodka downing, cussing like a sailor, fishnet wearing granny.)

I don't find it difficult or an imposition on my rights to change clothes for a G region.

We know the TOS says nudity by itself isn't adult and can be on M regions. However, nudity is probably not expected in a playground in an M region. If I choose to go to a child's playground on an M region, I'll dress for a childrens playground. If I choose to go to a rock club on an M region, you can bet I'll be showing some skin and may even dance topless.

All this arguing seems so pointless. We are ALL adults. We know different places in real life have different rules. I believe very few adults would choose to show up at a Chucky Cheese in a thong and pasties. (Again, I'm not talking about your vodka downing, cussing like a sailor, fishnet wearing granny)

I keep seeing "I can't change ANYTHING about myself for ANY reason in ANY inworld region for ANYONE and I still want to go ANYWHERE I want without considering ANYONE else!!!!"

That really does sound like entitlement from both sides.

 

[brodiac90]

I don't think anyone actually read my post. I was not saying I have an issue with M land. I was saying if there is a problem then the onus is on the child avatar to deal with it. You don't like being around barely dressed adults, then don't go to M land where worse is allowed. 

I know a bikini isn't naked. I said that in my original post. Please actually read what I said.