Discuss or Comments about Child, Adult, Can't Tell Thread

[Sammy Huntsman]

2 minutes ago, Chery Amore said:

Have you ever had to police an adult venue? Just wondering. Sometimes you do have to make a decision despite what they say.

Like a long long time ago, but I didn't put my standards of what I thought a child was. I would generally ask them or read their profile. 

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Is that a human only thread?

No, I won't post my frog. Thought about it, though. 😄

I thought of posting lions.

[Love Zhaoying]

26 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Sure. YOUR use of SL is perfectly normal and healthy, but these people over here are just sick.

Absolutely a strawman argument. You got me!

I thought she was just saying "Hay girl!" (As in "heyyy")

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

I thought she was just saying "Hay girl!" (As in "heyyy")

Or maybe we were supposed to judge its age????

[Vivienne Schell]

2 hours ago, Chery Amore said:

I think this  thread is a great idea.

Why? If someone thinks that a walking plywood box  is a "Child Avi" the someone has the right to think so. The someone can even AR the plywood box. And as sim owner, eject, ban and mute the plywood box and leave the rest up to governance.

Totally useless thread.

[Persephone Emerald]

34 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Please don't feed any trolls posting in the other thread. Starvation is a good thing in this case.

Please don't feed trolls in this thread either. 

[Sammy Huntsman]

9 minutes ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

Calling it a "child avatar" confuses the issue. LL is cracking down on sexualized depictions of minors. And, as has been stated by other women in the thread, some adult people have very youthful figures and some minors are developed in body before their brain has a chance to catch up. 

But what minors? And they are just child avatars,  who are adults behind the screen. I mean if you are talking about the weird art that you saw in that expose thing. That is just art, as weird as it is. And it doesn't actually depict actual children. Which is what the law means. 

[Love Zhaoying]

30 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

And I think that what this implies, quite correctly, is that we are judging these looks on the basis of expectations within SL, rather than what an analogous young person might look like in RL.

This has come up a bit, but I think we can't judge at all without applying our experience and some bias from RL; otherwise judging SL without any relation to RL at all, we have no place to judge "from".

[Ayashe Ninetails]

28 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Two quick thoughts about the pics in that thread so far:

1) By a pretty large margin, almost every pic of a female tends to get read as 18+. I am wondering if the mere presence of boobs is enough to skew the results.

2) Despite the fact that I am hyper-aware of the realities of puberty in girls, I am also tending to see almost all of these girls/young women as 18+. Which is a reminder of how much we are all prey to cultural assumptions about women's bodies, even when we know that we know better.

In addition to cultural assumptions about breasts and body shape generally in women, I'm also wondering if part of the problem is that SL doesn't do girls / young women very well? Notoriously, it's also really difficult to represent a woman who is between the age of, say, 40 and 60 or so.

Additionally, the issue of context: most of these female avatars are wearing things that might get them into trouble at school, although they are really entirely appropriate overall. Putting a teen into a bathing suit, for instance, immediately ages her in most people's eyes, even though in reality, yes, women under the age of18 do actually frequently have breasts and go to the beach.

All good observations and I agree with a lot of that. I'm not participating in that thread as I don't particularly have much reason to, but I am watching it out of curiosity.

I do strongly agree with your point about making older avatars. They're my absolute favorite (and older male avies are so hot omg wait wut), but you almost never see them unless you know where to look - the fantasy and horror community, mostly. Understandable, as it takes a LOT of effort to make one. I've been shopping mine for a very long time.

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Or maybe we were supposed to judge its age????

A scarecrow doesn't imply a "straw man", so I'd hate to assume anything too definite. I do know that the Scarecrow is a "Friend of Dorothy", but I somehow doubt Caity falls into that group. Maybe "ebil scarecrow" like in Batman movie, causes fearful hallucinations.

[Blush Bravin]

I have posted another set of pics in the other thread, because while the vast majority of respondents indicated adult there were two that responded as child and two that weren't sure. I don't want anyone to ever think Debi is under age. So I'm trying to pin down what exactly made people question her adulthood. 

[Blaise Glendevon]

2 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

But what minors? And they are just child avatars,  who are adults behind the screen. I mean if you are talking about the weird art that you saw in that expose thing. That is just art, as weird as it is. And it doesn't actually depict actual children. Which is what the law means. 

My opinions are not formed by that smear article. My opinions are formed by actual clinical literature, and testimony by mental health professionals who work with people who offend against children. 

[Chery Amore]

6 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Please don't feed trolls in this thread either. 

I'm agreeing with you when I did in the other one hehe. I'm still not going to police it cause it gives me the giggles.

[Persephone Emerald]

37 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said:

36 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Sure. YOUR use of SL is perfectly normal and healthy, but these people over here are just sick.

Absolutely a strawman argument. You got me!

What is your use of SL, @CaithLynnSayes

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I have posted another set of pics in the other thread, because while the vast majority of respondents indicated adult there were two that responded as child and two that weren't sure. I don't want anyone to ever think Debi is under age. So I'm trying to pin down what exactly made people question her adulthood. 

You could ask! I'd try to explain!

[Blush Bravin]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

You could ask! I'd try to explain!

Splain then!  

[Love Zhaoying]

@Blush Bravin, I've noticed a few times in the copy/pasted instructions in the thread, where it says "based on physical appearance alone". 

What exactly does that mean? I (and others) may be judging all the pictures incorrectly if we don't quite get it.

Thanks!

 

[Blaise Glendevon]

Just now, Codex Alpha said:

Objective factors which will be used to decide include whether an avatar has childlike facial features,

Part of what we were chopping up in that other thread. A lot of the big seller mesh heads for women have very youthful features - plump cheeks, big eyes - because that youth coding in our society is also sold as a benchmark of attractiveness in an age-obsessed culture. They're not supposed to look like children, but they are very much supposed to imply a girlishness.

Quote

 is child-sized

Teenagers, in specific, vary in height dramatically. My best guy friend in high school didn't crack 5'5" until junior year. In our class, there was a 6'7" kid in 9th grade. And in my case, I was fully "developed" at 13 but completely unprepared for the attentions of adult men not bothering to pay attention to my generally still-childish conversation and demeanor. 

Quote

has clothing or accessories generally associated with children

Rave culture, Japanese street fashion, and certain vintage aesthetics would like to have a word.

Avatar age is a highly subjective interpretation. Those of us who wish to be in compliance with a very vague set of rules have an interest in getting it right. 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Blush Bravin said:

Splain then!  

See my question post above after yours, your reply may help me answer!

 

[Chery Amore]

5 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I have posted another set of pics in the other thread, because while the vast majority of respondents indicated adult there were two that responded as child and two that weren't sure. I don't want anyone to ever think Debi is under age. So I'm trying to pin down what exactly made people question her adulthood. 

I rated them both as "adult". You're first picture has those cute pigtails and that's really the only possible confusion I see. So they are looking at overall a little more strictly than I do. I have that hairstyle somewhere.... 

[Rowan Amore]

6 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I have posted another set of pics in the other thread, because while the vast majority of respondents indicated adult there were two that responded as child and two that weren't sure. I don't want anyone to ever think Debi is under age. So I'm trying to pin down what exactly made people question her adulthood. 

What I found interesting in the other thread and why I posted 2 pics.is that it's the exact same avatar.  The only thing changed is hair and outfit.  The one more.people found younger or questionable even had cleavage showing.when some have said cleavage seems.to.show an older look.   Interesting.

 

[Blush Bravin]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

@Blush Bravin, I've noticed a few times in the copy/pasted instructions in the thread, where it says "based on physical appearance alone". 

What exactly does that mean? I (and others) may be judging all the pictures incorrectly if we don't quite get it.

Thanks!

 

Physical appearance in females post puberty and very early adulthood is tricky. Very tricky. So that's what I mean by based on physical appearance alone.  So mannerisms, perhaps clothing preferences, topics of interest, etc .. can be more of an indicator for age in the particular age range for women. So that's what I meant. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear.

[Rowan Amore]

3 minutes ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

Part of what we were chopping up in that other thread. A lot of the big seller mesh heads for women have very youthful features - plump cheeks, big eyes - because that youth coding in our society is also sold as a benchmark of attractiveness in an age-obsessed culture. They're not supposed to look like children, but they are very much supposed to imply a girlishness.

Teenagers, in specific, vary in height dramatically. My best guy friend in high school didn't crack 5'5" until junior year. In our class, there was a 6'7" kid in 9th grade. And in my case, I was fully "developed" at 13 but completely unprepared for the attentions of adult men not bothering to pay attention to my generally still-childish conversation and demeanor. 

Rave culture, Japanese street fashion, and certain vintage aesthetics would like to have a word.

Avatar age is a highly subjective interpretation. Those of us who wish to be in compliance with a very vague set of rules have an interest in getting it right. 

We've tried explaining this multiple times.  Kind of hopeless at this.point.  🙄

[Ayashe Ninetails]

2 minutes ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

Rave culture, Japanese street fashion, and certain vintage aesthetics would like to have a word.

Soooooooooooo much this.

[Codex Alpha]

4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

What I found interesting in the other thread and why I posted 2 pics.is that it's the exact same avatar.  The only thing changed is hair and outfit.  The one more.people found younger or questionable even had cleavage showing.when some have said cleavage seems.to.show an older look.   Interesting.

 

That's because you can have the same avatar with curved hips and boobs like a sexually mature female, then you can lower the percieved age by suddenly putting on Disney Mickey Mouse Ears, put a lollipop in  your mouth, wear piggy-tails, accessorize with a teddy bear, and a blanket with Hello Kitty on it and it changes the overall...

But to ME, it would just look like an adult woman carrying around kids stuff, totally out of place, and if I was governance, I would have to take that into account anyway - as that person would then be trying to (successfully or not) to present as a child...

It's not just the face or some small change, but the overall picture, but MOST OF ALL, the situation and behaviour one would be participating in ALONG with everything else.

Objective factors which will be used to decide include whether an avatar has childlike facial features, is child-sized, has clothing or accessories generally associated with children, and whether, based on the circumstances, an avatar is speaking or acting like a child ("My Mommy says...").

Note: Merely having a childlike avatar does not violate this policy. It is not our intent to banish childlike avatars in and of themselves.

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Clarification_of_policy_disallowing_ageplay