Modesty Patch Discussion

[Ayashe Ninetails]

4 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

I must be a girl at heart then because my favourite activity is shopping and I have so many outfits it is unbelievable. I already said I agree the back part is uncessary, but I also stated I don't think LL are going to change their minds. Yes it's rubbish, and no, the kid communuity in general being deminished is not good for me. 

Lol, I was going to say. Men (and boys!) shop just as much as we do sometimes.

I will say the modesty layers are pretty much what I expected them to be, though I was pleasantly surprised they went for a strapless design for the bras. This is good, at least.

[brodiac90]

7 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Lol, I was going to say. Men (and boys!) shop just as much as we do sometimes.

I will say the modesty layers are pretty much what I expected them to be, though I was pleasantly surprised they went for a strapless design for the bras. This is good, at least.

I honestly feared they might be as drastic as shorts which would break way more content than they already do. 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

1 minute ago, brodiac90 said:

I honestly feared they might be as drastic as shorts which would break way more content than they already do. 

That would've been horrrrrrrible!

[Katherine Heartsong]

I like a lot of what's being said, especially those using the term "expression" correctly in this context. Expression, along with sex, gender, and orientation are the four commonly accepted pillars of a human being's identity. None of them are binary and run across a spectrum (though sex is often thought of as binary, it actually isn't).

In the case of expression, it often is associated mainly with clothing (as well as things like mannerisms, voice, body styling, makeup etc), and while it's obviously a cultural thing but in North America ranges from highly feminized to the macho masculine.

My thinking @Madi Melodious for your friend is whatever they are expressing that moment is the appropriate panel to be wearing.

On the days they are wearing a gown and a bow in their long hair, they'd wear the girl panel. On days the are in jeans and a plaid shirt or male swimming trunks and a buzz cut, they'd wear the boy one. Somewhere in the middle just as others have said make their best call and it'll be fine.

Edited May 9 by Katherine Heartsong

[Kathlen Onyx]

If the side and back panel were able to be done away with would that satisfy everyone?

I tend to agree it's not needed but I can't imagine that those that put up the examples did not see this coming.  This can all be cleared up with "can we remove the side and back panel or is it required to be considered a modesty panel" Yes or No?

However, I think LL will let this thread go to 200 pages before getting close to answering that question. It could be so easy. Just clarify it! Please.

@Tommy Linden

Edited May 9 by Kathlen Onyx

[brodiac90]

Just now, Kathlen Onyx said:

If the side and back panel were able to be done away with would that satisfy everyone?

I tend to agree it's not needed but I can't imagine that those that put up the examples did not see this coming.  This can all be cleared up with "can we remove the side and back panel or is it required to be considered a modesty panel" Yes or No?

However, I think LL will let this thread go to 200 pages before getting close to answering that question. It could be so easy. Just clarity it!

Side one might be more contentious depending on how developed the avatar is. No need for the back one though. 

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

1 minute ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

However, I think LL will let this thread go to 200 pages before getting close to answering that question.

Well it will have to get there without me, I'm not sitting through that again! 😅

[Ayashe Ninetails]

2 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

On the days they are wearing a gown and a bow in their long hair, they'd wear the girl panel. On days the are in jeans and a plaid shirt or male swimming trunks and a buzz cut, they'd wear the boy one. Somewhere in the middle just as others have said make their best call and it'll be fine.

And this is why I'm very, very glad I don't pilot a child or teen avatar in SL. Everything you said here just made me short circuit. 😂

My males would be in the gown/bow/long hair and my females in the shaved head and plaid (I lived in flannels and combat boots and Timbs in the 90s). The middle - anyone's guess - flannels and stiletto heels on a male with long hair and an undercut. And glitter makeup.

I'm too fluid for my own good, I tell ya.

[Katherine Heartsong]

9 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

And this is why I'm very, very glad I don't pilot a child or teen avatar in SL. Everything you said here just made me short circuit. 😂

My males would be in the gown/bow/long hair and my females in the shaved head and plaid (I lived in flannels and combat boots and Timbs in the 90s). The middle - anyone's guess - flannels and stiletto heels on a male with long hair and an undercut. And glitter makeup.

I'm too fluid for my own good, I tell ya.

Precisely my point. *hugs* Expression rules, just wear the appropriate panel for the occasion!!

[brodiac90]

16 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Well it will have to get there without me, I'm not sitting through that again! 😅

196 pages to go! We could have another plague(sic) award given out. 

No @Madi Melodious I'm not going to let you forget that 😂 😂😛

[Madi Melodious]

13 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I'm too fluid for my own good, I tell ya.

I'm the complete opposite.  I tried to run a boy for a while, and I just couldn't do it.   While I can change cloths at the drop of the hat; one person said I was the only person who could start a teleport wearing one outfit and arrive wearing a different one.  Changing my avatar is different.  Buying and wearing a new hair takes me 3 days of nail biting.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

3 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

Precisely my point. *hugs* Expression rules, just wear the appropriate panel for the occasion!!

Oh I agree. *hugs back* Sometimes, though, one might wonder "am I feeling bra today?," (hell, I ask myself that often in RL and the answer is usually no, lol - glad I work at home, wheeeee) so I can understand why some might be having a difficult time with these new rules.

Having something else to worry about (need to cover up, or else!!! *waves TOS around*) is extra weight when you're already struggling with expression and/or identity. I know I used to get very frustrated reading dress rules at school/work. Ugh. Women/girls must do thisss men/boys must do thaaaat.

 

1 minute ago, Madi Melodious said:

I'm the complete opposite.  I tried to run a boy for a while, and I just couldn't do it.   While I can change cloths at the drop of the hat; one person said I was the only person who could start a teleport wearing one outfit and arrive wearing a different one.  Changing my avatar is different.  Buying and wearing a new hair takes me 3 days of nail biting.

Oh I understand that completely! Some do get very, very attached to their avatar. I've known people I couldn't convince to even pick up a free Lelutka head during Christmas!!! Meanwhile, I could change my ENTIRE appearance (species, gender, outfits, heads, skin, shape included) 5 or more times in a 1-hour session. I'm terrible. 😂

[brodiac90]

5 minutes ago, Madi Melodious said:

I'm the complete opposite.  I tried to run a boy for a while, and I just couldn't do it.   While I can change cloths at the drop of the hat; one person said I was the only person who could start a teleport wearing one outfit and arrive wearing a different one.  Changing my avatar is different.  Buying and wearing a new hair takes me 3 days of nail biting.

I change outfits so often my SL Mom bought me my own washing machine. I don't use it though! Laundry is for grownups! 

I made her a number of coupons for Christmas, one of them was titlted Washy Wash. Pay attention to the date.... 

 

[Arielle Popstar]

42 minutes ago, Madi Melodious said:

I'm the complete opposite.  I tried to run a boy for a while, and I just couldn't do it.   While I can change cloths at the drop of the hat; one person said I was the only person who could start a teleport wearing one outfit and arrive wearing a different one.  Changing my avatar is different.  Buying and wearing a new hair takes me 3 days of nail biting.

Not that I regularly run with a boy look but through some shape modifications on different outfits, I did see the unconscious leaning of some towards some boyish face features. Now I tried a few intentional evolvings and I kinda like them as they grow on me so for me the fluidity comes through gradual changes, not one extreme to the other in one shot.

[MissSweetViolet]

I'm pretty happy with these layers myself. I had been thinking about how I would have done them. What I had thought of was actually more restrictive then this, so I'm pleasantly surprised.

My only wish now is for them to better clarify if it needs to be built into the body, or if the skin is sufficient since they specifically called on the avatar makers while also stating skin in several places. As well as how it may apply to non human children [thinking more furries and monster types, since I assume mermaids or nekos are probably close enough to human to fall under the need for the cover].

 

 

Edited May 9 by MissSweetViolet
Spelling corrections.

[elleevelyn]

5 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Teens do wear prom dresses, after all.

my mother would never ever have let me wear this to my senior school prom

[Sparkle Bunny]

yeah, I was a flat-chested teen, but I would have died before I went out without a crop top or bra.

[Lexxi Gynoid]

15 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

 

https://lindenlab.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/31000173097-child-avatar-faq/

Note: I did embellish image from source for amusements

 

Other than the top modesty bra, I do not see a difference between the four images above.  

Is it the hair? Do you know how many boys have ponytails now-a-days? Tons. Girls with basically shaved heads is rarer, but crew cut (or buzz cut) hair-styles is also a modern day girl hairstyle.

I do not wish to insert a bunch of RL images, so I won't.  Instead I'll mention, if people wanted to see what I mean, going to Shutterstock. Tons of boys with ponytails (like above quoted image), girls with crew cuts; boys with ponytails & crew cuts (sides of head), etc.

Basically: if a boy in SL wanders around with a ponytail, will they need to wear a modesty layer? It can't be the hair that determines things, right?

[Lexxi Gynoid]

14 hours ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

On the days they are wearing a gown and a bow in their long hair, they'd wear the girl panel. On days the are in jeans and a plaid shirt or male swimming trunks and a buzz cut, they'd wear the boy one. Somewhere in the middle just as others have said make their best call and it'll be fine.

Boys can't have long hair? Girls can't have a buzz cut? So it really is the hair that's the determination on modesty panels?

[Persephone Emerald]

21 minutes ago, Lexxi Gynoid said:

Other than the top modesty bra, I do not see a difference between the four images above.  

Is it the hair? Do you know how many boys have ponytails now-a-days? Tons. Girls with basically shaved heads is rarer, but crew cut (or buzz cut) hair-styles is also a modern day girl hairstyle.

I do not wish to insert a bunch of RL images, so I won't.  Instead I'll mention, if people wanted to see what I mean, going to Shutterstock. Tons of boys with ponytails (like above quoted image), girls with crew cuts; boys with ponytails & crew cuts (sides of head), etc.

Basically: if a boy in SL wanders around with a ponytail, will they need to wear a modesty layer? It can't be the hair that determines things, right?

Yeah. The Senra bodies, hair and clothing are already unisex. (I don't understand why some people wanted another unisex version.) 

If LL thinks nipples are sexual, why can't skin creators just leave them off, rather than having to add a bra top? I think a gender-less child skin should be smooth like a doll. 

 

Edited May 9 by Persephone Emerald
To add pictures

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Persephone Emerald said:

The Senra bodies, hair and clothing are already unisex.

Wow, that's interesting.

I can see the "women" wearing the "men's" stuff and still possibly looking "female", but it's a little difficult to imagine the same for "males" (unless they are of course, "effeminate/ambiguous"?)

[brodiac90]

 

13 minutes ago, Lexxi Gynoid said:

 

Basically: if a boy in SL wanders around with a ponytail, will they need to wear a modesty layer? It can't be the hair that determines things, right?

It isn't. I mean, if the boy was wearing a pony tail, had a female shape, was in a dress and also happened to have a unisex name then maybe people might be confused, but otherwise no. 

I have somewhat long and feminine hair, my display name is James. Do you think if you saw me like the picture below with the name James you'd think I was a girl? 

Edited May 9 by brodiac90

[Love Zhaoying]

..and what if you're non-binary..? 

Who knows which modesty patches are needed?

Whose business is it?

[brodiac90]

28 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Yeah. The Senra bodies, hair and clothing are already unisex. (I don't understand why some people wanted another unisex version.) 

If LL thinks nipples are sexual, why can't skin creators just leave them off, rather than having to add a bra top? I think a gender-less child skin should be smooth like a doll. 

 

It's very old now and hasn't been supported for a long time but child avatar dolls do exist. It was called COCO DOLL KID AVATAR. 

 

[Persephone Emerald]

2 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

It's very old now and hasn't been supported for a long time but child avatar dolls do exist. It was called COCO DOLL KID AVATAR. 

The last time I checked, these dolls were free at COCO. They have several mesh doll avatars, a few free clothes for them, and other clothes you can buy for them.