So what changed in the Terms of Service?

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 minute ago, Vivienne Schell said:

Aha. So what is your suggestion then? Ban child avatars completely?

banning child avatars is only the first step. If they ban child avis second life is finished as a place for free expression

[Alwin Alcott]

15 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said:

Seems as if he real kids are alot more smarter than the old farts playing kids in SL?

not sure how it is in other countries ( for example school uniforms are not used in the Netherlands)  it's sometimes near to shocking how "adult" many, hardly, teens appearances are.

[Luna Bliss]

I had a gay friend, sadly passed away awhile back, who wished he could have expressed himself as a gay teen. He was unaware of who he was during those years, though had inklings, but was repressed by societal condemnation.  I can imagine if he were able to roleplay in SL today he'd love to roleplay a gay 13-year-old with another of the same age.  Will this be illegal now with the proposed changes, even if they would do this on Adult land behind closed doors?

[Coffee Pancake]

3 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

banning child avatars is only the first step. If they ban child avis second life is finished as a place for free expression

The moment the new rules dropped, a few were already trying to shame LL into banning adult avatars roleplaying certain things with other adult avatars.

Swear, LL is the only company I know that can have customers rage quit and then carry a grudge for over a decade.

[Vivienne Schell]

1 minute ago, Alwin Alcott said:

not sure how it is in other countries ( for example school uniforms are not used in the Netherlands)  it's sometimes near to shocking how "adult" many, hardly, teens appearances are.

True. But they still wear panties. And besides that, they certainly do not have dozens of links to "Hello Daddy" and "Visit my Dorm", "Teen meets Older Men"  places and the like painted on their forehead (profile). Also, one should think twice before dating them for certain activities or even TRY to date them.

[Alwin Alcott]

7 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

 If they ban child avis second life is finished as a place for free expression

not only that, family rp isn't just a handfull paying members...

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

I had a gay friend, sadly passed away awhile back, who wished he could have expressed himself as a gay teen. He was unaware of who he was during those years, though had inklings, but was repressed by societal condemnation.  I can imagine if he were able to roleplay in SL today he'd love to roleplay a gay 13-year-old with another of the same age.  Will this be illegal now with the proposed changes, even if they would do this on Adult land behind closed doors?

But how would he express himself? Can you get into specifics?

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

Will this be illegal now with the proposed changes, even if they would do this on Adult land behind closed doors?

That has always been banned.

 

 

[Alwin Alcott]

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

 Will this be illegal now with the proposed changes, even if they would do this on Adult land behind closed doors?

yes totally banned.  2 adults playing kids having sex... AP.

Edited May 7 by Alwin Alcott

[ErwinVonVlotho]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

 I can imagine if he were able to roleplay in SL today he'd love to roleplay a gay 13-year-old with another of the same age.  Will this be illegal now with the proposed changes, even if they would do this on Adult land behind closed doors?

Roleplaying? No. Nudity? Yes. Sex? It always has been.

[Leslie Trihey]

While I don't disagree that both SL child avatars and RL Children shouldn't wear certain items of clothing. Let's be real;

If someone looks at an either an underage avatar or RL underage person and thinks "sexy!", the problem's not with the underage avatar/RL underage person, nor the clothing. The problem is the person having these thoughts about the underage avatar/RL underage person in question.

Blaming the victim is the same kind of logic that men from certain cultures/countries use to keep women oppressed. RL Women forced to wear "Modesty layers" (Aka burkas) because without them they are "immodest" and "indecent" or "they are asking for it". Amongst other tyranny. Not saying it's the same thing, but it is certainly the same logic.

Edited May 7 by Leslie Trihey

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 minute ago, Leslie Trihey said:

While I don't disagree that both SL child avatars and RL Children shouldn't wear certain items of clothing. Let's be real;

If someone looks at an either an underage avatar or RL underage person and thinks "sexy!", the problem's not with the underage avatar/RL underage person, nor the clothing. The problem is the person having these thoughts about the underage avatar/RL underage person in question.

Blaming the victim is the same kind of logic that men from certain cultures/countries use to keep women oppressed. RL Women forced to wear "Modesty layers" (Aka hijabs) because without them they are "immodest" and "indecent" or "they are asking for it". Amongst other tyranny. Not saying it's the same thing, but it is certainly the same logic.

This is why the whole thing of children, whether they are avatars in SL or Real life, are sexualized. Moreso today, than they were before. That and in the same logic, why we are infantilizing adult avatars or even adults themselves, just for looking young. 

[Rowan Amore]

35 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

The question isn't "Can you buy stripper thongs for 12 yr olds online"

The question is "WHO buys stripper thongs for 12 yr olds online"

 

Is it the 12 yr olds with their credit cards?

Or is it some "Daddy".

 

So, no, people presenting as 12 yr olds in SL shouldn't have built in stripper thongs JUST because Coffee found a web store selling them.

No way in hell would we have let our 14 yr old daughter have a tiny bikini or skirts so short her cheeks hung out.  You know what?  She hated us at times, too as she should.  As a 30+ year old now, she understands why.  Just because something is sold for children doesn't mean it should be and it angers me when some parents allow it.  We do these things to protect our children from unwanted attention.  

[brodiac90]

8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I had a gay friend, sadly passed away awhile back, who wished he could have expressed himself as a gay teen. He was unaware of who he was during those years, though had inklings, but was repressed by societal condemnation.  I can imagine if he were able to roleplay in SL today he'd love to roleplay a gay 13-year-old with another of the same age.  Will this be illegal now with the proposed changes, even if they would do this on Adult land behind closed doors?

Err yes? Pretty sure it was always illegal in SL. Being homosexual doesn't exempt you from TOS. If he's 13 then he's a child avatar and shouldn't be engaging in sexual activity. 

[Vivienne Schell]

4 minutes ago, ErwinVonVlotho said:

Roleplaying? No. Nudity? Yes. Sex? It always has been.

Residents presenting as Child Avatars shall be prohibited from the following:

• Entering any Region rated Adult. Residents must change to a non-child or non-childlike avatar to visit Adult rated regions.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

43 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

I'm not entirely sure the "why" they're doing it really matters as much as the issue of "how" they're addressing the problem and details of what residents need to do to comply with their solution, which is what most people seem to be concerned about.

I think we can all come up with legitimate reasons for why LL are trying to rid SL of the behaviour that the new TOS addresses, I suspect the only people who are against the intent behind the changes (or at least my understanding of what they're trying to achieve) are exactly the people LL are trying to discourage.

lol are you saying if you disagree with the new rules you are a secret pedo?

Wonderful, second life is disintegrating already 😂

Edited May 7 by BilliJo Aldrin
forgot a word

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, brodiac90 said:

11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I had a gay friend, sadly passed away awhile back, who wished he could have expressed himself as a gay teen. He was unaware of who he was during those years, though had inklings, but was repressed by societal condemnation.  I can imagine if he were able to roleplay in SL today he'd love to roleplay a gay 13-year-old with another of the same age.  Will this be illegal now with the proposed changes, even if they would do this on Adult land behind closed doors?

Err yes? Pretty sure it was always illegal in SL. Being homosexual doesn't exempt you from TOS. If he's 13 then he's a child avatar and shouldn't be engaging in sexual activity. 

Oh wasn't making any distinction between homosexuals or heterosexuals...this just came to mind due to knowing my gay friend.

[Silverdown Seetan]

12 minutes ago, Madi Melodious said:

An as it has been over and over, what they want is impossible with the current platform the way it as.   

Here is what is going to happen.  Those of us that really enjoy the platform and play by the rules will give up some of our freedoms, lots of money, and time so we can continue to enjoy it in the size we choose too.  We will eventually, after grumbling a lot,  conform because it will be the best in the end once the bugs are worked out.

The bad guys, the once who are cause the problems.  Weill kick back with a beer after the last ban.  They will create a new account, upload non-compliant skins and bodies, and proceed as if nothing happened.   That is what is going to happen.

What the Lab is trying to do, despite good intentions, will not stop the problem and in the end might actually make it worse.  

This is exactly why I said the modesty layer wont do anything.  If someone with a  sick mind thinks sick no change to a TOS for child avatars is going to mend the issue at hand.  We will be at it again in a few years for sure, if we survive this one. It in the end might actually make a entire community leave and when they see a  revenue hit it will be way to late to reverse it. What they going to do, increase pricing just to offset the loss? That will make more residents leave as well so there is no good ending for this for anyone.  What frustrates me is, all this is because of accusations of a blog post upon employee's of Linden Labs which I hope are not true and not even at normal users/residents. If it was they would have just been banned and forgotten like last weeks lottery numbers. 

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

2 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

This is why the whole thing of children, whether they are avatars in SL or Real life, are sexualized. Moreso today, than they were before. That and in the same logic, why we are infantilizing adult avatars or even adults themselves, just for looking young. 

I really don't think it's worth equating what teens and children choose to wear in RL with what adults choose to attach to their avatars in SL.

Kids tend to be very susceptible to peer pressure and are easily influenced by social media etc, and as Coffee pointed out, tend to want to look older.  Everyone here is an adult and the only reason for them to wear certain clothes is to mimic the style that children wear in RL, and when they try to push certain boundaries and wear outfits which can be considered "sexualized" then it's hard to see any justification for it.

[brodiac90]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Oh wasn't making any distinction between homosexuals or heterosexuals...this just came to mind due to knowing my gay friend.

You didn't, but some people do and will call it discriminatory or homophobia etc. It doesn't matter if you're gay, striaght, bisexual or whatever ... if you're a child avatar then you shouldn't be engaging in any sexual activity, in any form, with anyone. 

[Denim Robonaught]

7 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I suspect the only people who are against the intent behind the changes

I'm not against the intent behind the changes. I'm against the way it was executed and where they completely went overboard.

Edited May 7 by Denim Robonaught
clarification

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

3 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

lol are you saying if you disagree with the new rules you are a secret pedo?

Wonderful, second life is disintegrating already 😂

Uh no, I'm saying that if you disagree with the idea of ridding Second Life of people who like to sexualize children then you're one of the people that LL (and I suspect the vast majority of residents) would like to remove from the platform or at least strongly encourage to leave?!

[Vivienne Schell]

8 minutes ago, Leslie Trihey said:

While I don't disagree that both SL child avatars and RL Children shouldn't wear certain items of clothing. Let's be real;

If someone looks at an either an underage avatar or RL underage person and thinks "sexy!", the problem's not with the underage avatar/RL underage person, nor the clothing. The problem is the person having these thoughts about the underage avatar/RL underage person in question.

Blaming the victim is the same kind of logic that men from certain cultures/countries use to keep women oppressed. RL Women forced to wear "Modesty layers" (Aka burkas) because without them they are "immodest" and "indecent" or "they are asking for it". Amongst other tyranny. Not saying it's the same thing, but it is certainly the same logic.

Expecting awareness (both genders) and educating accordingly is not "blaming the victim". Unfortunately too many grown up people who use SL did not show the required awareness, for whatever reason, which endangers the existance of the entire platform. The recent ToS change is a reaction to that and is far away from "blaming the victims".

[Sammy Huntsman]

6 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

lol are you saying if you disagree with the new rules you are a secret pedo?

Wonderful, second life is disintegrating already 😂

Can we stop watering down that term please? 

[Rowan Amore]

17 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

But how would he express himself? Can you get into specifics?

Seeing as how a 13 yr old is considered a child avatar, they couldn't BE on adult.land and certainly couldn't engage in adult activity.  They couldn't as child avatars before the new rules.