Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 7 minutes ago, MissSweetViolet said: a few are implying the whole kid community is against this Sorry, that was certainly not the intended implication. It's been very clear even here that a great many child RPers support measures intended to prevent sexual a*eplay in general, and the restrictions on A rated areas in particular. I have no way of knowing how many do, of course, but I don't think LL would have proceeded without being reasonably sure that most of these changes would be not merely acceptable to, but maybe even supported by the community. 10 minutes ago, MissSweetViolet said: What most of us are upset about is the lack of clarity on what LL thinks this should look like. I completely agree, and have said as much. LL needs to clarify this soon. 11 minutes ago, MissSweetViolet said: I think a skin with built in layer should be good enough, but if they state not removable, then to me, skin doesn't qualify because you can swap a skin. Yeah, this is the part of the new rules that I think is mostly unnecessary window-dressing. There is literally no way, short of forcing literally every mesh body maker on the grid to change their mesh designs to incorporate a full proof modesty layer, of ensuring that there is no work-around for someone who wants to evade this requirement. Changing a skin -- from one with a modesty layer to one without -- is almost exactly as easy as removing BOM panties. I think this one, as I've suggested, is less about actually discouraging a*eplay than it is about appearances -- as for instance the fact that, in theory, every skin for a child avi on the MP will, as of July 1, appear in the ad as having built-in panties (or whatever). That's a visible sign that LL has "done something concrete." 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: So a child avatar who self identifies as such or is less then a tween or one that is in your own estimation portraying one as being less then 18? Yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: 19 minutes ago, MissSweetViolet said: What most of us are upset about is the lack of clarity on what LL thinks this should look like. I completely agree, and have said as much. LL needs to clarify this soon. I think we are fortunate to have a reasonable set of FAQ's as a starting point. As with the previous thread, I am certain that LL will be reviewing our discussion (as referenced in the Lab Gab). Bless their hearts! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 4 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said: As an intermezzo in this thread: remember where this is all about in the end: Our not perfect, but still wonderful world. That is about the Real World. OFF TOPIC!!!1!!1!!! J/K ❤️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Just now, Love Zhaoying said: I think we are fortunate to have a reasonable set of FAQ's as a starting point. Yeah, honestly, I'm pleasantly surprised by how this is being handled, mostly. I wonder if the child avi "community" was consulted beforehand? Not sure how you do that exactly, but there are certainly some high profile members they know well, such Marianne McCann. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starberry Passion Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Sammy Huntsman said: I do think that countries and or states, that have laws that punish people with cartoons are so out of touch with reality. I mean sure as I said before, I find it weird. But these cartoons are not hurting anyone. It is because people blurr the line of reality and fiction that they see fiction as reality. This is the result of so far removed from reality that fiction is now see as reality itself. When you compare a human to a fictional character, you dehumanize them, regardless. Why? You are telling them they are less than human with that comparison. Back in the old days, when you wanted to make fun of your enemy, you cartoonified them and this was a dehumanization tactics... now people give more rights to fictional characters that would make a real life actual person jealous and feel less safe. Look at twitter, for example. They will go out of their way to protect an anime character that anyone draws them in such a way as "cute, married, romantically," or something more adult or something that is a Ship of another character, those fans go on a witch hunt calling that anime character "You don't get to touch my wife! She is mine, back off!" like wth? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 7 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: So a child avatar who self identifies as such or is less then a tween or one that is in your own estimation portraying one as being less then 18? Are you asking for clarification or reiterating? I can't tell. I think I was pretty clear. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Starberry Passion said: It is because people blurr the line of reality and fiction that they see fiction as reality. This is the result of so far removed from reality that fiction is now see as reality itself. When you compare a human to a fictional character, you dehumanize them, regardless. Why? You are telling them they are less than human with that comparison. Back in the old days, when you wanted to make fun of your enemy, you cartoonified them and this was a dehumanization tactics... now people give more rights to fictional characters that would make a real life actual person jealous and feel less safe. Look at twitter, for example. They will go out of their way to protect an anime character that anyone draws them in such a way as "cute, married, romantically," or something more adult or something that is a Ship of another character, those fans go on a witch hunt calling that anime character "You don't get to touch my wife! She is mine, back off!" like wth? Oh I know, that is why I stopped using twitter, for how far out of touch with reality they are. But I also totally agree with your take 100% 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissSweetViolet Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Sorry, that was certainly not the intended implication. It's been very clear even here that a great many child RPers support measures intended to prevent sexual a*eplay in general, and the restrictions on A rated areas in particular. I have no way of knowing how many do, of course, but I don't think LL would have proceeded without being reasonably sure that most of these changes would be not merely acceptable to, but maybe even supported by the community. I completely agree, and have said as much. LL needs to clarify this soon. Yeah, this is the part of the new rules that I think is mostly unnecessary window-dressing. There is literally no way, short of forcing literally every mesh body maker on the grid to change their mesh designs to incorporate a full proof modesty layer, of ensuring that there is no work-around for someone who wants to evade this requirement. Changing a skin -- from one with a modesty layer to one without -- is almost exactly as easy as removing BOM panties. I think this one, as I've suggested, is less about actually discouraging a*eplay than it is about appearances -- as for instance the fact that, in theory, every skin for a child avi on the MP will, as of July 1, appear in the ad as having built-in panties (or whatever). That's a visible sign that LL has "done something concrete." No worries, at the beginning when I quoted I was just trying to clarify since others in the thread were accusing most child avatars of being involved in inappropriate behavior, and your post had been the first I quoted. But I think you understand what most feel on the topic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: I wonder if the child avi "community" was consulted beforehand? Not sure how you do that exactly, but there are certainly some high profile members they know well, such Marianne McCann. Wouldn't that be considered favoritism? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Yeah, honestly, I'm pleasantly surprised by how this is being handled, mostly. The fact the "child community" is reacting negatively is, of course, not a surprise. It could be going a lot worse! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Just now, Kathlen Onyx said: Wouldn't that be considered favoritism? Yes, unquestionably. And probably correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 during my little walk i had some thoughts, happens sometimes, lucky guy i am, not too often... is the change in TOS really so big ... and after nearly 100 pages i'm getting close to say "not really" .. do i want better answers from LL than this to the issue what's on the roots of this change... yes, because i miss some seriously important parts, but i don't expect those to come. do i think it helps/prevents, what the thinking people came up with at the Lab, things they think it will help against ... no not really. thats it for today .. i go get some sleep 😴 (dont disapoint me... at least 120 in about 8 hours... ok?) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Yeah, honestly, I'm pleasantly surprised by how this is being handled, mostly. I wonder if the child avi "community" was consulted beforehand? Not sure how you do that exactly, but there are certainly some high profile members they know well, such Marianne McCann. It's being handled by LL only talking and little else. Question is over the longer term how their governance handles it and what the ramifications are for Child hunting and AR's. Almost surprised that someone hasn't piped up they will offer a bounty on every successful AR that gets a child avi banned considering the amount of vitriol that has been seen on this thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissSweetViolet Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Yeah, honestly, I'm pleasantly surprised by how this is being handled, mostly. I wonder if the child avi "community" was consulted beforehand? Not sure how you do that exactly, but there are certainly some high profile members they know well, such Marianne McCann. No clue to be honest, I do know they did not inform the creator of TD, so I'm assume no one else else was contacted ether. But again, not sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnek Fang Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Well, it's not the first time I've seen a major bombshell drop. It's kinda like the introduction of mesh, or the gacha band. We'll lose folk, granted, and everybody else will adjust. If anything, the clarification would make it easy. The only snarl that I (and a few other people see) is that, outside of the creators of actual child content, there really isn't any real agreement on what constitutes a child avatar. Anime-style avatars, for example, have been accused of being children for years before this. I'm just worried that will get even worse for less standard avatars in the coming months. 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: The fact the "child community" is reacting negatively is, of course, not a surprise. It could be going a lot worse! Most of the child RPers here are, I think, justifiably expressing concerns about a few ambiguities in the rules as currently laid out; not a lot of them are hitting back against the overall tendency, or the specifics about things like A rated regions. And there is some sense of victimization, which I think personally is misplaced, but is also completely understandable. If LL produced a new set of rules pertaining just to women in SL (relating to, I don't know, boob size or something), I'd likely be . . . "annoyed" as well. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 4 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said: Are you asking for clarification or reiterating? I can't tell. I think I was pretty clear. Will you be actively hunting down child avi's? What factors will you use to determine complying avi's, whether Child or late teen? Do you often attend places where child avi's are in attendance? ( I hardy ever see one unless I specifically go to places where they congregate) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 I wish that when Maitreya came out withe Lara X there was such an uproar of people having to spend $Lthousands to replace a wardrobe but there was hardly a care in the world about that. Even when creators said and did stop creating for Maitreya and are only creating now for Lara X. I honestly think that this thread would die down if LL simply showed us a picture of what the modesty panel will/should look like. They have yet to do so letting residents make up in their head how bad it will be. Not a responsible way to rollout a major change, if you ask me. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Just now, Arielle Popstar said: Will you be actively hunting down child avi's? What factors will you use to determine complying avi's, whether Child or late teen? Do you often attend places where child avi's are in attendance? ( I hardy ever see one unless I specifically go to places where they congregate) I only see child avatars, only when I am actively going out to look for them. I just don't actively run into one. But then again, I tend to hang in places, where adults and children gather in peace. In Family roleplay communities. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starberry Passion Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 I love my avatar, I think she is beautiful, she is cute I feel she is adult. I've been on second life for over 10 years, met several people, I've passed some Lindens by and they were nice to me, kind. Soft Linden was very kind, a chill person. My avatar dresses adult, she looks adult to me. Yes she's 5'1" my mom is 5'0", my grandma is 4'9". I don't want to be a big woman, I want to be my normal skinny self and people always are like "You should be more realistic." It blows my mind when people say that and then get upset at realistic heights like seriously. I come on here to escape reality, to cope for hours before I go back to reality. At the end of the day, I know she is not real. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Kathlen Onyx said: I wish that when Maitreya came out withe Lara X there was such an uproar of people having to spend $Lthousands to replace a wardrobe but there was hardly a care in the world about that. Even when creators said and did stop creating for Maitreya and are only creating now for Lara X. I honestly think that this thread would die down if LL simply showed us a picture of what the modesty panel will/should look like. They have yet to do so letting residents make up in their head how bad it will be. Not a responsible way to rollout a major change, if you ask me. Well to your second bit, its would be like underwear baked on. That is different than the actual skin colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said: Will you be actively hunting down child avi's? What factors will you use to determine complying avi's, whether Child or late teen? Do you often attend places where child avi's are in attendance? ( I hardy ever see one unless I specifically go to places where they congregate) Did you even read my post AT ALL? or just skim it because all those questions are answered IN THE POST ITSELF. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Quite a few people seem to prefer reading as much negativity as possible into the things others write. And I thought I was cynical. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said: Will you be actively hunting down child avi's? What factors will you use to determine complying avi's, whether Child or late teen? Do you often attend places where child avi's are in attendance? ( I hardy ever see one unless I specifically go to places where they congregate) Ye gods, Arielle. There is NO indication she, or anyone else, will be "hunting down" child avis. In fact, Kathlen's direct remarks make it very clear she won't. NO ONE is required to submit their personal list of "Things that make this a child" -- to you or anyone else. And as Rowan and others have said, it wouldn't matter if they did: it's Governance who makes that determination. And Kathlen has also answered your last question. You can turn off the spotlight over her head now. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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