Very Sad News for Blueberry lovers

[Codex Alpha]

2 hours ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

There was an "exodus" of creators when sculpted prims were introduced, and another when mesh was first released too.  Whenever there's a new set of hoops to jump through a few will decide they've had enough of LL moving the goalposts and call it quits. 

At this point It's probably best to wait and see what long term trends emerge after the dust settles.

Sorry, but that's a bit of cope. People will say this to hand wave any 'concerns' away, instead of encouraging LL to step up its game.

I know some groups who will apologize and apologize and cope until there's only 5 users left.. then continue doing it.

Go over there and take a look. Pro PBR, excellent, thorough and superb documentation - higher standards by default - 1024 px max by default, more human looking avatars to match those who like The Sims, etc. LUA all over the place, Dedicated Studio to build levels.. No more "Have to go through our sdk in unity" step.. upload straight from Blender... Let's not pretend and ignore what's happening and the possibilities. If there was no gain to going over there or other platforms, BB and others wouldn't be there.

2 hours ago, Cristiano Midnight said:

I think one difference in those two scenarios is both did suddenly require majorly different skills. Sculpties were a weird hack, and mesh does have quite a learning curve. PBR materials are just additional maps. If they were already using something like Substance Painter or even Photoshop, it is not a big change really. Time will tell, but I would think switching the workflow for pbr is not that significant.

Ok, but there's PBR on Roblox, and even higher standards for mesh, requirements to have a minimum amount of animations rigged to the face especially, but superb documentation and support to do it all. It's not PBR that would turn people away, sorry.

[Rowan Amore]

14 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

Go over there and take a look. Pro PBR, excellent, thorough and superb documentation - higher standards by default - 1024 px max by default, more human looking avatars to match those who like The Sims, etc.

If you're talking about Roblox (since you didn't specify where 'over there' was and that's where Blueberry went), you can't be serious.  

[Codex Alpha]

6 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

If you're talking about Roblox (since you didn't specify where 'over there' was and that's where Blueberry went), you can't be serious.  

😕

"more human looking avatars" in relation to their classic avatars. Also more options for custom avatars, and all being able to be exported (As modern FBX) from your favourite 3d editor.

Please educate yourself. And while you're there, marvel at the massive, superb, superior,informative and thorough documentation there that LL can learn  from!

[Cristiano Midnight]

36 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

Sorry, but that's a bit of cope. People will say this to hand wave any 'concerns' away, instead of encouraging LL to step up its game.

I know some groups who will apologize and apologize and cope until there's only 5 users left.. then continue doing it.

Go over there and take a look. Pro PBR, excellent, thorough and superb documentation - higher standards by default - 1024 px max by default, more human looking avatars to match those who like The Sims, etc. LUA all over the place, Dedicated Studio to build levels.. No more "Have to go through our sdk in unity" step.. upload straight from Blender... Let's not pretend and ignore what's happening and the possibilities. If there was no gain to going over there or other platforms, BB and others wouldn't be there.

Ok, but there's PBR on Roblox, and even higher standards for mesh, requirements to have a minimum amount of animations rigged to the face especially, but superb documentation and support to do it all. It's not PBR that would turn people away, sorry.

I am not sure why you quoted me - I said it would not be PBR that would drive creators away like sculpties and mesh did. Different skillsets.

[Aethelwine]

30 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

If you're talking about Roblox (since you didn't specify where 'over there' was and that's where Blueberry went), you can't be serious.  

Roblox obviously need Blueberry Booty options.  😁

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

38 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

Sorry, but that's a bit of cope. People will say this to hand wave any 'concerns' away, instead of encouraging LL to step up its game.

Guess you haven't read any of my posts expressing my opinion of LLs "game", huh? 🙄

It's only "cope" if I am, as you say, trying to hand wave away concerns.  I never said that the loss of creators wasn't a concern, it always has been.  The problem is that the population of SL is already declining and has been for years so, while the percentage of creators throwing in the towel may not be any higher or lower than usual, LL can barely afford to lose any creators be it a large portion or a handful.

 

43 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

I know some groups who will apologize and apologize and cope until there's only 5 users left.. then continue doing it.

As I said, I've been quite critical of LL numerous times on these forums, I'd recommend not judging people based on just a couple of forum posts, lest others decide to do the same to you!

 

50 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

Go over there and take a look.

I don't need to go look at other platforms to understand the issues with the way SL content creation is handled, anyone that's ever watched a handful of videos on creating content for any platform aside from SL can tell how convoluted the process in SL is by comparison.  I'm not saying that creators leaving SL isn't a problem, but I'm not going to lose my head panicking over it every time LL shake things up a little.  If you want to spend the next few weeks doing Chicken Little impressions on the forums then go right ahead, I'll order in extra popcorn!

[Clem Marques]

9 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

Looks like Blueberry is doing fine on Roblox.

Though Roblox still haven't solved the "same outfit in different colors" listing, so multiple listings are still needed, the listings all feature the actual model in 3d space, able to view it in 3d space Sketchfab style, and even try on the item onto your avatar to see how it looks.

Roblox also has strict mesh requirements, such as poly limits, requiring several 'base' rigged animations to any avatar submitted, etc that will guarantee that most mesh will be optimized for use on Roblox PC and majority mobile users.

What do we have here for that in SL? Some of us are already optimized for mobile just in our workflow and care for detail - but it's all lost in SL Mp's as there is no way to distinguish optimized from not, LOD'd full or not, optimized textures or not, 'mobile ready' or not, and now "Is PBR-enabled" or not.

SL is being left behind no matter what, unless they pick up the pace, or more creators will decide the ROI here, the amount of work and reward is no longer worth it here, and seek other platforms.

(Warning: This will be very long. Take my words with a grain of salt. Parts of this post are based on personal experience and not on precise, verifiable data. It's all alleged. )

This is a fair point about SL's ROI, but don't overestimate the ROI that Blueberry will get on ROBLOX. As someone who has created fairly successful clothing on ROBLOX before, the ROI is not as good as one would expect it to be, based on the amount of players and the general "hype" that ROBLOX seems to have as a growing platform from an outside perspective. However...

Four important things to consider:

1) SL vs. ROBLOX: Different target demographics with different spending habits

• The customer base on ROBLOX is composed of mostly children and some young teenagers. They rely on their parents to afford any ROBLOX purchases - less "disposable income" available to them at the drop of a hat. But more impulse purchases, most likely, since children are not the best at regulating that. But they can't shop to their heart's content. They need a parent's permission to spend. Due to having less cash, they often seek cheaper items to buy as many as they can.
• The customer base in SL is composed of adults with (sometimes plenty of) disposable income and their own credit cards. They can spend as much as they want of their own money without having to beg anyone else for permission. Less impulse purchases, most likely, but they are able to afford more expensive things, and are, on average, financially capable of shopping more often than children.

2) Prices: Lower revenue per item, and no fatpacks on ROBLOX

• Blueberry's single-color clothing items in SL are also, on average, much more expensive than they are on ROBLOX. This means that their ROBLOX business model will have to rely on selling a larger quantity of items in order to match the revenue they had as a creator in SL. Well... good luck with that.

55 Robux (Roblox's currency) = 0,19 USD per color

 L$ 250 = 0,98 USD per color

It's also worth noting that fatpacks DO NOT EXIST on ROBLOX. That concept is completely unheard of there, and they are impossible to create on that platform, due to some of its technical limitations. Only single colors are possible. So Blueberry lost that source of revenue on ROBLOX.

3) Competition & Risk: "Abandoning" a market that they dominate for an unfamiliar one

Blueberry is a very professional company with lots of experience. In SL, the quality of their items really stood out when compared to other creators. The same can't be said about their ROBLOX creations, in my opinion. If one compares their items to the other similar items available in the ROBLOX catalog, one will quickly see that they do not stand out or offer anything very special. And they charge the same price as every other creator on that platform.

Can you tell which one of these is a Blueberry creation if I censor the names? Cmon, just take a guess... 

Their items just get buried in an endless sea of very similar content, that costs the same as theirs. Why would a customer buy from Blueberry on ROBLOX, instead of buying something from any other creator that is equally as good? Sorry if this is too harsh, but it's a thought that I just can't ignore.

Blueberry stands out in SL. They do not stand out on ROBLOX.

Another thing to consider is that vast amounts of ROBLOX user-generated content (UGC), such as these clothes, are produced by kids and teens. They do not have any bills to pay, so they don't care about making a significant ROI, they just care about having some extra virtual money to play with, which results in lots of items being sold for low prices. They also have way too much free time, something that adults do not have. Do not underestimate the knowledge and artistic abilities of these kids. Some of them do amazing work and are very tech savvy. 

Due to ROBLOX's well-known status as a financially successful gaming platform, several brands that are much bigger than Blueberry also have their eyes on the platform, and have produced/are producing content for it.

Can they really compete well when one considers all of that?

4) Cashing out: Harder and more expensive on ROBLOX

The minimum value of L$ that one can sell is currently L$650 (2,50 USD). It's possible to sell your L$ at any point, no questions asked, as soon as you meet that very low minimum requirement. Pretty much anyone can earn that much on this platform as a creator - even as a small creator. The exchange rates vary according to supply and demand, making it fair for the person selling their L$. It's wonderful.

The minimum value of Robux (ROBLOX's currency) that one can sell is 30,000 Robux (105 USD), and according to this webpage: https://en.help.roblox.com/hc/en-us/articles/13061189551124-Developer-Exchange-Help-and-Information-Page#:~:text=If you (a user of,("Cash Out"). this seems to be a fixed value that does not change according to supply and demand. A flat rate. If a creator makes anything under 30,000 Robux, they are apparently unable to cash out. (Not 100% sure, but that's genuinely how it seems to be) and each payout has to be approved by them individually.

This means that, to cash out on ROBLOX and get some real money, Blueberry would have to sell at least 546 of those single color shirts I showed earlier. Is that achievable? Maybe. For most ROBLOX creators it isn't.

Conclusion:

As a ROBLOX player and creator in the past, my well-informed prediction is that Blueberry will eventually regret their decision to shift their focus to ROBLOX. I genuinely do not believe they will have as much success as they expect to have on that platform. This was likely a carefully planned decision, not something done on a whim, by any means. But still... 

I like Blueberry and wish them well. They provided residents with so many great products throughout the years - definitely some of the best in terms of female clothes. But I personally believe this was a bad move. We'll see how it goes. Of course, they might prove me wrong, and in that case, fair enough.

But I'll be very surprised if that happens. 

Edited July 6 by Clem Marques

[Rowan Amore]

*wonders when the last time some people have seen a human 

[Katherine Heartsong]

9 hours ago, Kylerky said:

I am not implying anything. I'm asking questions. I read what you posted and reject it all completely. It has zero to do with anything I stated and just feels like a ridiculous attack.

Quote

do you maybe need to tell us all something?

But that very question does imply that LL has something to tell us.

You're not asking a question you don't think you know the answer to, you've already surmised that there is something to tell. You didn't ask a general "what's up?" ... you've assumed something beyond what stores have done since they started here.

Others have pointed out the same logical error in the way you asked the question.

I'm not being rude or confrontational, I want to know what you think LL has to do with all this, because that's what you're asking them. You've pre-supposed there is something unusual more than just the usual business that happens with merchants here. Similar to other people who think there is a conspiracy behind just a normal event.

Occams Razor here, it was a ROI-driven business decision on the part of BB's owner. Nothing more.

But I noticed you took your action in world, so I'm good now.

Edited July 6 by Katherine Heartsong

[Codex Alpha]

53 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

Occams Razor here, it was a ROI-driven business decision on the part of BB's owner. Nothing more.

Yep. and I wish BB good luck and fortune, forging out into new platforms. Couldn't care less about anyone else contrary to the move has to think - they'll defend this place to the last 5 people, like they always do.

[Clem Marques]

2 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

*wonders when the last time some people have seen a human 

Very human

 (Very uncommon to see avatars like this one, they are a recent addition)

But to be fair, I suppose they do look somewhat "more human" than the classic ROBLOX avatars from years ago did:

So @Codex Alpha's point was not wrong when he said this:

4 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

"more human looking avatars" in relation to their classic avatars.

With that in mind, it should be clear to see that SL is light years ahead of ROBLOX in terms of avatar customization and realism. We should not even try to compare the two. They are completely different. Is it harder to make a proper SL avatar? Definitely, 100 times harder. But it looks infinitely better than this horrid cartoony mess. It's safe to assume that no sane SL player is going to leave this platform play ROBLOX. If they try, they will be very disappointed. Just saying.

[Arielle Popstar]

27 minutes ago, Clem Marques said:

Very human

 

 (Very uncommon to see avatars like this one, they are a recent addition)

But to be fair, I suppose they do look somewhat "more human" than the classic ROBLOX avatars from years ago did:

 

So @Codex Alpha's point was not wrong when he said this:

With that in mind, it should be clear to see that SL is light years ahead of ROBLOX in terms of avatar customization and realism. We should not even try to compare the two. They are completely different. Is it harder to make a proper SL avatar? Definitely, 100 times harder. But it looks infinitely better than this horrid cartoony mess. It's safe to assume that no sane SL player is going to leave this platform play ROBLOX. If they try, they will be very disappointed. Just saying.

The human mind is able to find sexiness whereever it goes. Just depends on what it is used to.

[Marianne Little]

On 7/6/2024 at 2:38 AM, Clem Marques said:

-------------------------

 

Can you tell which one of these is a Blueberry creation if I censor the names? Cmon, just take a guess... 

Their items just get buried in an endless sea of very similar content, that costs the same as theirs. Why would a customer buy from Blueberry on ROBLOX, instead of buying something from any other creator that is equally as good? Sorry if this is too harsh, but it's a thought that I just can't ignore.

Blueberry stands out in SL. They do not stand out on ROBLOX.

Another thing to consider is that vast amounts of ROBLOX user-generated content (UGC), such as these clothes, are produced by kids and teens. They do not have any bills to pay, so they don't care about making a significant ROI, they just care about having some extra virtual money to play with, which results in lots of items being sold for low prices. They also have way too much free time, something that adults do not have. Do not underestimate the knowledge and artistic abilities of these kids. Some of them do amazing work and are very tech savvy. 

Due to ROBLOX's well-known status as a financially successful gaming platform, several brands that are much bigger than Blueberry also have their eyes on the platform, and have produced/are producing content for it.

Can they really compete well when one considers all of that?

4) Cashing out: Harder and more expensive on ROBLOX

The minimum value of L$ that one can sell is currently L$650 (2,50 USD). It's possible to sell your L$ at any point, no questions asked, as soon as you meet that very low minimum requirement. Pretty much anyone can earn that much on this platform as a creator - even as a small creator. The exchange rates vary according to supply and demand, making it fair for the person selling their L$. It's wonderful.

The minimum value of Robux (ROBLOX's currency) that one can sell is 30,000 Robux (105 USD), and according to this webpage: https://en.help.roblox.com/hc/en-us/articles/13061189551124-Developer-Exchange-Help-and-Information-Page#:~:text=If you (a user of,("Cash Out"). this seems to be a fixed value that does not change according to supply and demand. A flat rate. If a creator makes anything under 30,000 Robux, they are apparently unable to cash out. (Not 100% sure, but that's genuinely how it seems to be) and each payout has to be approved by them individually.

This means that, to cash out on ROBLOX and get some real money, Blueberry would have to sell at

One and seven?

[Clem Marques]

2 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

On 7/6/2024 at 2:38 AM, Clem Marques said:

-------------------------

 

Can you tell which one of these is a Blueberry creation if I censor the names? Cmon, just take a guess... 

Their items just get buried in an endless sea of very similar content, that costs the same as theirs. Why would a customer buy from Blueberry on ROBLOX, instead of buying something from any other creator that is equally as good? Sorry if this is too harsh, but it's a thought that I just can't ignore.

Blueberry stands out in SL. They do not stand out on ROBLOX.

Another thing to consider is that vast amounts of ROBLOX user-generated content (UGC), such as these clothes, are produced by kids and teens. They do not have any bills to pay, so they don't care about making a significant ROI, they just care about having some extra virtual money to play with, which results in lots of items being sold for low prices. They also have way too much free time, something that adults do not have. Do not underestimate the knowledge and artistic abilities of these kids. Some of them do amazing work and are very tech savvy. 

Due to ROBLOX's well-known status as a financially successful gaming platform, several brands that are much bigger than Blueberry also have their eyes on the platform, and have produced/are producing content for it.

Can they really compete well when one considers all of that?

4) Cashing out: Harder and more expensive on ROBLOX

The minimum value of L$ that one can sell is currently L$650 (2,50 USD). It's possible to sell your L$ at any point, no questions asked, as soon as you meet that very low minimum requirement. Pretty much anyone can earn that much on this platform as a creator - even as a small creator. The exchange rates vary according to supply and demand, making it fair for the person selling their L$. It's wonderful.

The minimum value of Robux (ROBLOX's currency) that one can sell is 30,000 Robux (105 USD), and according to this webpage: https://en.help.roblox.com/hc/en-us/articles/13061189551124-Developer-Exchange-Help-and-Information-Page#:~:text=If you (a user of,("Cash Out"). this seems to be a fixed value that does not change according to supply and demand. A flat rate. If a creator makes anything under 30,000 Robux, they are apparently unable to cash out. (Not 100% sure, but that's genuinely how it seems to be) and each payout has to be approved by them individually.

This means that, to cash out on ROBLOX and get some real money, Blueberry would have to sell at

One and seven?

Number 8 actually, on the bottom right corner. That's the only Blueberry creation in that picture. All others shirts were made by other people. It's really hard to tell.

Edited July 7 by Clem Marques

[Persephone Emerald]

On 7/5/2024 at 5:38 PM, Clem Marques said:

[snip]

Can you tell which one of these is a Blueberry creation if I censor the names? Cmon, just take a guess... 

 

I guess # 7, though # 4 looks nice too.

Edited July 8 by Persephone Emerald

[Dyna Mole]

Hey gang!

I have hidden several posts that were well off this thread's topic.  Please remember that while spirited discussion and constructive disagreement are welcome, name-calling and airing of grievances are not appropriate in our discussion areas. If you have a personal issue with another poster, take it off line or let it go.

[Rowan Amore]

37 minutes ago, Clem Marques said:

Number 8 actually, on the bottom right corner. That's the only Blueberry creation in that picture. All others shirts were made by other people. It's really hard to tell.

What I did notice when looking through her store on Roblox was that the quality, as in detailing, is not at all as good as her items in SL.  Perhaps it's just less work and she won't need a team to provide help.  Less people sharing the fruits of her labor?

[Clem Marques]

8 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

47 minutes ago, Clem Marques said:

Number 8 actually, on the bottom right corner. That's the only Blueberry creation in that picture. All others shirts were made by other people. It's really hard to tell.

Expand  

What I did notice when looking through her store on Roblox was that the quality, as in detailing, is not at all as good as her items in SL.  Perhaps it's just less work and she won't need a team to provide help.  Less people sharing the fruits of her labor?

That's true, it's something to consider. It probably takes less time to create those items, especially since they are not rigging  clothing for several different body types on ROBLOX.

[Codex Alpha]

10 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

What I did notice when looking through her store on Roblox was that the quality, as in detailing, is not at all as good as her items in SL.  Perhaps it's just less work and she won't need a team to provide help.  Less people sharing the fruits of her labor?

There are stricter mesh requirements there and maximum poly counts, as well as texture limits, and strict recommendations, to keep Roblox operating fast

[Clem Marques]

On 7/6/2024 at 2:38 AM, Clem Marques said:

Another thing to consider is that vast amounts of ROBLOX user-generated content (UGC), such as these clothes, are produced by kids and teens. They do not have any bills to pay, so they don't care about making a significant ROI, they just care about having some extra virtual money to play with, which results in lots of items being sold for low prices.

This is such a big issue on ROBLOX that they had to set strict guidelines regarding minimum prices for their user-generated items, to keep creators from selling things for a penny and crashing their "economy." As of today, they just raised the minimum price for all mesh shirts from 55 to 60 robux.

It currently costs creators 1000 robux to publish each shirt on that platform, 1500 for pants and skirts. I wonder how that affects Blueberry's profits, if at all. In SL, the creator has to upload all the textures and the mesh. That can be pricey as well, depending on the product.

Edited July 8 by Clem Marques

[vahiti Yiwama]

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=3683030232012503&set=a.1498217840493764

 

Gizem Mishi Akin (Blueberry) :

 

I have the urge to start over new. I miss you guys so much. If you miss me too.. here is something to look forward to. All the love from all of us 

 

 

Edited July 8 by vahiti Yiwama

[vahiti Yiwama]

The Kiwi Co  is a new store that Mishi is starting. 

secondlife:///app/group/d4aa3f0a-be98-7972-3eb5-b85092dab32d/about

 

 

 

[Rowan Amore]

https://my.secondlife.com/kiwi.blossom

[AzureWaves]

Back after 90 days? Guess her team of meshers and designers can’t go without an income from SL

[Love Zhaoying]

New store = new venture = new partners, etc. Who knows, could be big reasons to "start over" with a new store. Do things differently, make/sell different things, support them differently, stand out for that reason not for reasons the old store did.