Six of One, Half Dozen of the Other?

[steeljane42]

Around 3.8k extra li for me or ~13% increase. It's pretty nice, but yeah, I'm going to wait and see for when PBR is in actually usable state to see how much of that free li I want to use on reflection probes and extra lights, if any.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Assuming the 15% applies to the floating point value of Download weight, it only matters at all if it pushes the value below rounding threshold. For example, suppose I have an object that started with a Download Weight of 4.2. Fifteen percent of that is 0.63, and 4.2-0.63 = 3.57. That may look like a reduction, but the LI calculation will round it up to 4, just as it used to round 4.2 down to 4.

Yeah, this is why it's not going to impact very much for me. An object is going to need to be about 5 or 6 before you seem an actual reduction. The largest object I think I currently have rezzed is 43 Li I think; mostly I have a lot of smaller objects. I'll need to do more linking to see some really benefit.

Still, gift horses and mouths I guess. I very seldom teeter near my limit anyway.

Edited April 4 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Bonus from the same announcement: It will make mirrors cheaper to use, too (not that anyone seriously asked for mirrors)!

Are you kidding? We've been asking for mirrors for ages.

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, Artorius Constantine said:

^ This right here was my first thought. I now have to go through hundreds of mesh items, rez them on world, compare the LI to the listing and if (changed), change the listings, LI counts and sales pictures because I as well, put the LI in the main pic. I guess I'll stop that practice, that made things easier on the shoppers, since it will now cause me a whole lot of extra work.

For those with an inworld store, at least the items will already be rezzed.

[Qie Niangao]

12 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

An object is going to need to be about 5 or 6 before you seem an actual reduction.

Not always, though. I mean, a 15% reduction can push a 1.7 weight down to 1.445, so a 2 LI item drops to 1. And that's a 50% drop!

I think that's pretty rare in practice because creators and buyers will "nudge" sizes and other factors to avoid such borderline rounding-up conditions.

But I can't quite convince myself one way or another whether a uniform distribution of fractional weights (not nudge-biased) would end up saving 15% on average. I guess I could run a simulation and find out, but I bet some forums reader knows without even needing to think about it. And also I'm lazy.

[Qie Niangao]

48 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I think now that the items are lower LI, everyone should also change their prices.

Oh, I agree. The lower the LI, the higher the value!

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Not always, though. I mean, a 15% reduction can push a 1.7 weight down to 1.445, so a 2 LI item drops to 1. And that's a 50% drop!

I think that's pretty rare in practice because creators and buyers will "nudge" sizes and other factors to avoid such borderline rounding-up conditions.

But I can't quite convince myself one way or another whether a uniform distribution of fractional weights (not nudge-biased) would end up saving 15% on average. I guess I could run a simulation and find out, but I bet some forums reader knows without even needing to think about it. And also I'm lazy.

True. I am forgetting that it's not the simplified rounded weight that is being calculated.

Edited April 4 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Kathlen Onyx]

Wouldn't it be nice if LL put an banner on the marketplace?  Something like...

Please be aware that due to recent changes and to accommodate for PBR, a new feature, you may see a change in LI up to a 15% lower than stated on the marketplace item for sale. This change affects yada yada...We would not expect all creators to specify this change in all their listing.  Thank you for your understanding

 

[Love Zhaoying]

21 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

For those with an inworld store, at least the items will already be rezzed.

IF they rez the items in-world in the store, and don't just show them on a terminal..!

[Ayashe Ninetails]

I have no idea if I'm affected by this or not. Since I have the memory of a gnat, I can't remember how much land impact I had free before this went into effect.

I also don't know what "manually rezzed reflection probes and lights" means or why I'd even be doing that (spoiler - I will not be doing that) or what mirrors have to do with this (I have no interest in those, either), so I assume very little will change on my end.

I basically read that announcement as something something PBR, but I'm still one or two viewer updates behind and don't intend to engage with PBR at all until it becomes something that just works without any input from me.

[Sid Nagy]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I think now that the items are lower LI, everyone should also change their prices.

I agree, when I have to fiddle with the listings I can include adding the 15% inflation from the last years in one go.
Good idea mr. Lion.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I also don't know what "manually rezzed reflection probes and lights" means or why I'd even be doing that (spoiler - I will not be doing that)

I had to rez lights. My current build (probably all of them) is "dark" now with PBR ("at night").  It was not "dark" before PBR.

That was only 4 LI for 4 prim lights, but it's an example.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Sid Nagy said:

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I think now that the items are lower LI, everyone should also change their prices.

I agree, when I have to fiddle with the listings I can include adding the 15% inflation from the last years in one go.
Good idea mr. Lion.

I was thinking it could go either way!

Charge more L$ because the thing now takes less LI (so is a better value).

vs.

Charge less L$ because somehow seller charges "per LI".

 

 

[Sid Nagy]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Charge less L$ because somehow seller charges "per LI".

Just as in RL most sellers charge what they think that people are comfortable with to pay for the product.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Just as in RL most sellers charge what they think that people are comfortable with to pay for the product.

 

Example, RL "thread count" (for sheets, fabrics) could equate to "# triangles" in SL.

[Kathlen Onyx]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Example, RL "thread count" (for sheets, fabrics) could equate to "# triangles" in SL.

I read something somewhere that thread counts are a farce to sell more expensive sheets. I'm pretty sure Target has all the same quality though. lol

[Rick Nightingale]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

That was only 4 LI for 4 prim lights, but it's an example.

Do what I do and link them to mesh. Zero extra LI

One part of my build is something like 240LI mostly on download cost for the mesh, but there's something like 200 prims linked into the mesh. The entirety of the cost of those prims is absorbed into the mesh cost, filling up the server cost. I could probably optimize it even more since the linkset distance was increased, but I haven't got around to it yet. I have hit the 255 objects in a linkset limit in places though. Could do with raising that one.

Edited April 4 by Rick Nightingale

[Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia]

5 hours ago, Rick Nightingale said:

My LI use on my rental from you @Prokofy Neva reduced by about 200; that's about a 9% saving but my build is already well optimised to reduce LI by linking.

I'm busy PBRing (that's now a verb) and installing reflection probes

Edit to add: Overall I think I'll see a net gain by the time I've finished. I can't imagine I'll need to use up 200LI in the 'improvement' process.

I keep seeing people saying they are doing PBR stuff like this, but I know it's not rolled out yet.  Are people all using PBR on the beta grid?  PBR has to be active on the sim, as well as the viewer, right?  Or can you PBR with just a beta viewer?

[Love Zhaoying]

9 minutes ago, Rick Nightingale said:

Do what I do and link them to mesh. Zero extra LI

One part of my build is something like 240LI mostly on download cost for the mesh, but there's something like 200 prims linked into the mesh. The entirety of the cost of those prims is absorbed into the mesh cost, filling up the server cost. I could probably optimize it even more since the linkset distance was increased, but I haven't got around to it yet. I have hit the 255 objects in a linkset limit in places though. Could do with raising that one.

There's no mesh currently to link them to, so I assume they would be at least 1LI total.

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia said:

I keep seeing people saying they are doing PBR stuff like this, but I know it's not rolled out yet.  Are people all using PBR on the beta grid?  PBR has to be active on the sim, as well as the viewer, right?  Or can you PBR with just a beta viewer?

Nope, it's been rolled out for awhile.

[Rick Nightingale]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

There's no mesh currently to link them to, so I assume they would be at least 1LI total.

Then the best you can do is link them together. Two equals One. Unfortunately in this One doesn't = None.

[Persephone Emerald]

10 minutes ago, Rick Nightingale said:

Do what I do and link them to mesh. Zero extra LI

One part of my build is something like 240LI mostly on download cost for the mesh, but there's something like 200 prims linked into the mesh. The entirety of the cost of those prims is absorbed into the mesh cost, filling up the server cost. I could probably optimize it even more since the linkset distance was increased, but I haven't got around to it yet. I have hit the 255 objects in a linkset limit in places though. Could do with raising that one.

Good idea to link an invisible light source prim to a mesh object. I already link box prim carpets and 0.5 LI weight mesh pictures to mesh items or walls. I link items on tables to those tables too. In the past I've used invisible light source spheres at times, which seemed to have more weight/cost than an unlighted prim, but maybe a box prim will have less weight/cost than a sphere.

[Rick Nightingale]

@Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia The current official viewer does PBR; it's been online since last December I think. Firestorm only has PBR in the beta release of the viewer though; only available through the testing group in-world. That's what I run.

Edited April 4 by Rick Nightingale

[Rick Nightingale]

13 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

maybe a box prim will have less weight/cost than a sphere

Yes, a sphere is 0.76 LI Download cost, a cube is 0.05 LI Download.

So, use cubes and link into mesh where the mesh's overall LI won't go up with the addition of that, and the 0.5 server cost that every individual object has. (Edited because I said it wrong the first time). If a mesh is costed on its download cost because that is a lot more than the server cost, then it can absorb the 0.5 server cost and tiny amount of download cost from the prim cube without getting bumped up.

Can you tell I used to live a very LI-poor life? 🤣 It's little different to the tricks we used to do to squeeze big programs into a few kB of memory, before megabytes and gigabytes were commonplace.

Edited April 4 by Rick Nightingale

[Alwin Alcott]

6 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Has anyone found this to be a big deal yet? 

it;s not a real big deal, but i see on my LH that i have around 30 Li more than a week ago, and i changed nothing.

 

Not sure yet if i want to laugh a bit, our cry when seeing this line... what are they thinking???

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