Love Zhaoying Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said: 3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: ?!?!?! I'm not about to feel sorry for ANY creators who make enough to pay for multiple Regions! That was revealing, thank you. Who said I paid for the regions, or paid for all the costs? If you don't, then you're obviously a freeloader - and complaining about not being paid enough on top of that? How shameful. Try being grateful instead. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 15 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I'm not sure I understand your need to control the thread. In other threads people have made proposals where the discussion went on ad nauseam. Why is this thread different or in need of your control? Since the thread only began today we haven't even had the chance for creators to weigh in. They're probably off somewhere creating and don't live on the forum as the forum regulars do. I'm not trying to control the thread. I'm suggesting to you that effectively advocating for change requires more work than just saying things "should" be different because the status quo is not fair. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Just now, Love Zhaoying said: 5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I think a discussion on Capitalism and its alternatives are beyond the scope of this thread, and likely devolve into that dreaded 'P' word (Politics), so we best not go there. Fine. If you want to be paid more, simply charge more. Don't blame someone else; take responsibility. If your goods are worth it, people will pay for it. BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT!! Society, be it in RL or a virtual one, is much more complex. Your simply solution would not suffice. I do blame our society for causing so many to do without at the bottom -- it doesn't have to be so. However I'm not blaming the structure of society for what I do or don't earn here in SL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 12 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Because capitalism sucks? Unless you're at the top. Oh. Capitalism may suck, but I challenge you to give evidence of any other economic system that has worked better for a country or state. Economic socialism might work in small communities such as a village or commune, but it fails at a larger scale. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said: Society, be it in RL or a virtual one, is much more complex. Your simply solution would not suffice. I do blame our society for causing so many to do without at the bottom -- it doesn't have to be so. However I'm not blaming the structure of society for what I do or don't earn here in SL. I almost miss those who constantly beat the drum of "take personal responsibility", I say "almost" because they often get really quiet when asked to take responsibility for their own situation. Reading between the lines, I guess we're to blame LL.. or you're just venting. Venting is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Who said I paid for the regions, or paid for all the costs? Seeing as regions are paid for through a bank account of the avatar that owns them, we'll draw our own conclusion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Just now, Persephone Emerald said: 19 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I'm not sure I understand your need to control the thread. In other threads people have made proposals where the discussion went on ad nauseam. Why is this thread different or in need of your control? Since the thread only began today we haven't even had the chance for creators to weigh in. They're probably off somewhere creating and don't live on the forum as the forum regulars do. I'm not trying to control the thread. I'm suggesting to you that effectively advocating for change requires more work than just saying things "should" be different because the status quo is not fair. Fair enough...it does require more. However, I think the starting point is actually valuing what creators do here, and feeling the need to compensate them to a greater degree for their time. I do get this positive feedback from so many residents inworld. I don't get this lovely attitude here though, on the forum. What I do get is a sense of entitlement from many of you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Just now, Kathlen Onyx said: 7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Who said I paid for the regions, or paid for all the costs? Seeing as regions are paid for through a bank account of the avatar that owns them, we'll draw our own conclusion. Then go to my region, Bliss Gardens Park and its adjacent region, Callahans Isle, and see who owns them. BTW, I've almost completed the new nature park below the store -- undersea and above ground fun and exploration. Check it out! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 2 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said: 18 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Because capitalism sucks? Unless you're at the top. Oh. Capitalism may suck, but I challenge you to give evidence of any other economic system that has worked better for a country or state. Economic socialism might work in small communities such as a village or commune, but it fails at a larger scale. I'm afraid we need to call in @Scylla Rhiadrafor this one. But I doubt even she would have solutions. But yes, something different might work better for a "village or commune", something smaller, like SL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaithLynnSayes Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: What I do get is a sense of entitlement from many of you. You wha? LOL. What do you mean by that? I'm so so curious for you to explain that one. Please, we'll all be quite for a bit. (Geez) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I do get this positive feedback from so many residents inworld. I don't get this lovely attitude here though, on the forum. What I do get is a sense of entitlement from many of you. Theresa Tennyson's shoulder devil glares at you over the gag and straightjacket. Her shoulder angel isn't happy with you either, having broken a nail in the struggle. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 5 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: One thing to consider in this discussion (and that counters all that say SL would crumble if prices increased, and that their spending would cease due to SL not being affordable anymore) is that in the beginning people were paying huge amounts (compared to today) for all sorts of things. As a merchant you could get 5K for a good house or waterfall (unlike today when often you can pay 499 or less). And sales were great! In other words, people simply become accustomed to what they pay, and will often pay more if that's what it takes to get what they want. So the problem here is the race to the bottom that always occurs with capitalism, and there's nothing to prevent it in SL (no price controls as happens in RL). Merchants undercut the other guy, and the only ones who can 'make it to the top' are those who manage to sell high-volume. Re-quoting myself...for time's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said: However, I think the starting point is actually valuing what creators do here, and feeling the need to compensate them to a greater degree for their time. We didn't ask them to be here. The "Free Market" usually sets acceptable prices. They can go do something else. As I said before, they can just charge more. Or, they can go "freelance" and primarily do custom work, and charge a LOT more. There are "options". But, "go do something else if this is not working for you" is definitely a viable option. Nobody says "creators have to be compensated". Nobody has to buy their stuff. Of course, if "everybody buys their stuff" and they set a "fair price", and they become top of the heap (like mesh body/head creators), then everyone will blame them. Don't you see? The system is rigged from both directions. If you don't succeed, you blame someone else. If you do succeed, you are blamed as "the problem". Those in the middle merely complaining, are missing the point that they are being taken advantage of by everyone. Unions. Coalitions. Standard pricing. All these are how RL economies were "fixed" instead being "rigged" (until that stopped working). If you and others don't support that still, then the corporations (and those at the top) have you fooled. As always. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 14 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I guess you didn't notice I said CreatorS with an 's' on the end. That would be more than just me or one other person (Sid). The rest appear to be only consumers. *Sigh* I've been a creator, but it wasn't profitable. This was before mesh, when anyone with basic building skills could put a few prims, textures and scripts together to create stuff that somebody would buy. I wanted to enjoy my time in SL though, so now I just create stuff for fun, rather than trying to sell it. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 3 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said: Theresa Tennyson's shoulder devil glares at you over the gag and straightjacket. Her shoulder angel isn't happy with you either, having broken a nail in the struggle. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modulated Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 17 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Fine. If you want to be paid more, simply charge more. Don't blame someone else; take responsibility. If your goods are worth it, people will pay for it. BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 2 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said: 23 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I guess you didn't notice I said CreatorS with an 's' on the end. That would be more than just me or one other person (Sid). The rest appear to be only consumers. *Sigh* I've been a creator, but it wasn't profitable. This was before mesh, when anyone with basic building skills could put a few prims, textures and scripts together to create stuff that somebody would buy. I wanted to enjoy my time in SL though, so now I just create stuff for fun, rather than trying to sell it. Not saying this is the case with you, but I've found that those who are the most critical of creators who make money here are those who tried and gave it up for various reasons. They appear to be jealous. That, and some don't feel we deserve to be earning money, believing we are just playing around as they do in their SL lives and somehow sucking in the cash as we merrily run around having fun, when in reality it is HARD WORK. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwar Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: We didn't ask them to be here. The "Free Market" usually sets acceptable prices. Not always the case. I remember when there was a proposal to have these massive sales on the MP, conducted by LL. Basically it would make it easy for people to never pay full price again, as the item would likely be for sale on the MP, easily found. I've seen other such interference by LL. So it's not all free market here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: 5 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: One thing to consider in this discussion (and that counters all that say SL would crumble if prices increased, and that their spending would cease due to SL not being affordable anymore) is that in the beginning people were paying huge amounts (compared to today) for all sorts of things. As a merchant you could get 5K for a good house or waterfall (unlike today when often you can pay 499 or less). And sales were great! In other words, people simply become accustomed to what they pay, and will often pay more if that's what it takes to get what they want. So the problem here is the race to the bottom that always occurs with capitalism, and there's nothing to prevent it in SL (no price controls as happens in RL). Merchants undercut the other guy, and the only ones who can 'make it to the top' are those who manage to sell high-volume. Expand Re-quoting myself...for time's sake. So you agree with me - simply charge more. Then others will charge more too. (A "race to the top".) Awesome!! ETA: NOT blaming those who sell for lower prices, would be like NOT blaming WAL-MART, Dollar Tree, Amazon, etc. for ruining small businesses by undercutting prices. Edited April 2 by Love Zhaoying 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaithLynnSayes Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Or, they can go "freelance" and primarily do custom work, and charge a LOT more. There are "options". I'm in that boat. So back in 2015 i started to create planes because i love aviation. That kinda dies off but i still sell them (well) and occasionally update them, obviously. But, not to brag, it turns out i'm fairly good at scripting. (Working for a Software company RL one would hope so.) So i "rent out" my skills in SL. The planes were nice and all. But now i script for other creators and I have Terms and Conditions, a contract one could say. I get a percentage of every sale they do with my scripting in it. This is how i end up at around the monthly income in SL I've mentioned previously. It's probably likely you have a thing or two in your inventory that has at lease some part of my scripting in it. Specially if it's naughty bits! 😲 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 3 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said: I'm in that boat. So back in 2015 i started to create planes because i love aviation. That kinda dies off but i still sell them (well) and occasionally update them, obviously. But, not to brag, it turns out i'm fairly good at scripting. (Working for a Software company RL one would hope so.) So i "rent out" my skills in SL. The planes were nice and all. But now i script for other creators and I have Terms and Conditions, a contract one could say. I get a percentage of every sale they do with my scripting in it. This is how i end up at around the monthly income in SL I've mentioned previously. It's probably likely you have a thing or two in your inventory that has at lease some part of my scripting in it. Specially if it's naughty bits! 😲 I respect you. For once! Write down the date! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: So you agree with me - simply charge more. Then others will charge more too. (A "race to the top".) Awesome!! No don't agree. Undercutting is a race to the bottom...have never heard of a race to the top. No way you could get cooperation for a race to the top in a competitive society. Like I said, I only believe a change will come when people value both the internet and virtual goods more than they do now. It will likely be a long process, but just like we've had to fight for our rights out in the real world as the corporations formed and tried to use us, squeeze as much as they could from us, we'll have to fight on the internet too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 19 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Fine. If you want to be paid more, simply charge more. Don't blame someone else; take responsibility. If your goods are worth it, people will pay for it. BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT!! In SL, charging more doesn't mean you'll be paid more. I think it's usually more important to market your business better...though creating a better quality product helps too. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 48 minutes ago, CaitlinParker said: All because I asked you obvious yes or no questions, you suddenly want to go the passive aggressive route? Standard operating procedure. Just roll your eyes and move on as most of us do. 😁 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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