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Why do so many new players not get the inventory system?


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5 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

No politics on these forums please. ;)

HAHA! I know you are making a joke, but I was being self-deprecating and it had nothing to do with politics.

Just in case anyone believed you were serious and correct!

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More topic related: You all know why the Chinese give the west a totally different Tiktok  than the youth in China, right?
To make our kids more interested in stupidity than in learning.
The tiktok version presented in China is much more about science, art etc.
 

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9 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Type "invisi" in inventory search. Then delete everything that shows up. - Save favorite old shoes if you wish. Delete the separate invisiprim and use an alpha cut or layer instead. (I still keep a favorite pair of sculpted "Barnacle Heels", even though I'll never wear them.)

I would be soooo surprised if anything I had was worth keeping. We're talking shoes made from actual blocky prims - flashy bling and all. And don't get me started on the handbags and eyewear and jewelry I was making (and selling) back then. Sure, still very cute, but they're like...40 prims or more, prob, lol.

I do wish I could use my furniture - went on an antique boudoir furniture building binge once, and while the pieces came out gorgeous, I have no room to be rezzing 80+ prim vanity sets. Can't bring myself to delete them, though! I worked hard on those things (even made custom animations!) dangit. 🤣

That's more of a problem for my old main, though. She was my builder/creator, so she sits unused these days left to ponder her ancient inventory. I'm the spendy one who buys a ton of stuff, lets it sit unorganized, and then forgets what I bought months/years later and spends an hour trying to figure out if I have some random thing I vaguely remember seeing once (including TPing to a store or two and searching the entire sim for something I barely remember to see what the name of it is so I can check my inventory more "efficiently," lol).

 

7 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

More topic related: You all know why the Chinese give the west a totally different Tiktok  than the youth in China, right?
To make our kids more interested in stupidity than in learning.
The tiktok version presented in China is much more about science, art etc.

That's more topic related? 😜 Just teasing, but no but really, I can't speak for every country, but ours has a lot of music, comedy (very much appreciated by meeeee), DIY/home improvement, cooking, art, science, dance, fashion, history, literature and writing, languages, and quite a big activism/organizing scene (like for workers, environment, etc.). The dumb memes are the loudest and proudest, but there's so much good content there if you go beyond the silliness and jump into the serious hashtags. Similar to YouTube, pretty much. Sure, you could sit there and watch what Mr. Beast gets up to, or you can use it to learn Portuguese.

My just-became-a-teen niece uses TikTok to stay on top of local and international current events. The little nerd knows more about what's going on in the world than I do.😄 I mostly binge fashion (styling and design), music, and comedy TikTok content, which is not much different to how I use other sites, really. I'm too news-ed out for my own good these days and keep myself busy in the creative realm.

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2 hours ago, Cougar Sangria said:

When I was 2 months old here in SL, I couldn't find anything in my inventory.  I had so much in my objects folder I was overwhelmed.  I figured if I was going to continue, I must organize this mess.  I took a class one of the building groups offered at the time, and boy, did that change my SL world.  I have maintained my inventory now for almost 14 years.  The system I have created works for me and keeps me organized.  As it stands, I have 37,000 items in my closet.  I keep all my home and garden organized in boxes, and all original clothing/accessories purchases are stored similarly.  Now, if I kept all that in my closet, my inventory would increase to 250,000 easily.  Taking care of your inventory is a daily chore if you want to stay organized.  Most residents don't want to take an hour, hour and a half total doing this.  But spending that time each day or when you log in goes a long way to getting your closet/inventory organized.  One just needs the desire to start and stay at it.

I also took an inventory management class. It was through Happy Hippo, with a very good teacher who has sadly now passed. I remember the first thing he taught us was to keep our inventory tree (the basic structure of primary folders) short enough to fill one page. This concept of course requires using subfolders within the primary folders. We can name these - and any other folders we create - to reflect how we actually use SL. 

I think one basically needs to spend as much time on inventory management as they do on shopping, in order to keep the SL inventory under control. If one doesn't shop much, it's not a problem, but if one loves to collect virtual goodies, that's the real price one has to pay for them.

Edited by Persephone Emerald
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On 3/28/2024 at 12:57 AM, Persephone Emerald said:

The problem with asigning metadata to user-created objects is that most creators can't be counted on to take an extra step properly. Most clothing creators don't even bother to set an appropriate attachment point for mesh clothes.

There is no need to assign metadata. All LL need to do is make it so that MP delivers stuff from MP directly to the inventory into MP categories (when they are actually sorted correctly which will never happen) that objects sold are already assigned to on MP. They also need to get rid of the whole, rez a box, attach a hud, add an object, etc delivery methods and have the items delivered directly into a folder system without the need for the end user to open a box.

Second Life is one of, if not the only, game/software platform that delivers items in 6 or so different ways instead of just delivering what you bought separately in a folder (which is possible on MP).

We already have the received Items folder where MP delivers to. There is no reason why this folder/section cant be made with folders based on MP category sorting and everything delivered by that method goes into those folders in received items. Make that section the default with the option to switch to the old inventory for older users or those that want to use it. At the very least it will allow people to categorise their inventory based on a decent (when correct) MP structure and easily allow them to create folders in the inventory to match.

Lastly, they then just need to introduce a 'save to' function for inworld purchases so that if a purchase is made not using MP then a 'save to' window appears where a person can save to the folder they want. We already have the system made like that with Landmarks, so wouldn't be a stretch to create a similar system.

On 3/28/2024 at 1:43 AM, Orwar said:

People have always complained about the categories on the MP and how a lot of creators don't know where to put their things.

(Kind of off topic however also relevant if the MP categories are to be used as a filtering system for the inventory per my reply to Persephone above).

That isn't a case of the creators fault (though they get the blame most times) but Linden Lab's fault for not offering more or clearer categories (and not managing them) and plain and simply LL's own stupidity.

For example, having Avatar Accessories, Avatar Components and Avatar Appearance categories instead of just the category AVATAR and then sub folders. Of which the Appearance category was left after adding the other categories later because (not my words but a Lindens) they couldn't be bothered transferring the items from the old category to the new ones. So now we have a main category with a mere 2118 items which, apparently is still to many for them to simply recategorise those items manually and delete the unnecessary main category.

Then there is the fact that the categories just aren't labelled right from the get go. For example, a person in the inventory has the system folder BODY PARTS and CLOTHING yet for some brain dead reason Linden Lab call the category on MP Avatar Components and Apparel respectively. Then for 'reasons', LL, even after 15 years of having mesh heads and bodies (and other body parts), still don't have a subcategory for those items so it is left for the creator to try and work out what is the best category to assign them.

But then why stop with the ridiculousness there. Even though they have Avatar Components as a category they have the categories of Hair, Adult parts and Wings under Avatar Accessories instead of Components. Then they have the body part categories of Feet and Hooves, Ears and Tails and Horns and Antlers in avatar components under "Cosmetic Enhancements' next to makeup when the afore mentioned have nothing to do with Cosmetics.

Then of course to add insult to injury LL decide to put the sub category Furry Accessories (which includes heads, legs, etc) under Avatar Accessories, however, then have the main category Furry whereby they have a Furry Component and Apparel subcategory, but leave the accessory category in the wrong area. But never fear, in their infinite wisdom they then put the sub category Anthropomorphic (i.e. Furry) Accessories in the Furry main category whilst still leaving the Furry Accessories (exactly the same thing) sub category in the Avatar accessories category.

Then on top of that they have the Furry Apparel category under Furry main category instead of the main Apparel category. Now whilst you would think that was the end of it, they then decide to create a subcategory of Hands and Feet in the Furry main category (despite furries generally not having as such) but then have hooves as well as horns and tails under Avatar Components instead of under the Furry main category.

Now granted some items are used by both furry and human such as tails, hooves, horns, etc, however, by creating the unnecessary Furry category (and other categories) they have separated items to much. This has two negative impacts, firstly a person searching, for example, clothing or body parts for a furry will generally search in the main Apparel or Avatar Components category not furry meaning people miss items being sold (impacts user and creator) and if they search in the latter they will miss out on the furry category stuff in the former. Secondly, it means the creator needs to know where those categories are which they dont because they are not in the right spot or are in multiple locations and need to pick (often wrong) a category that they know will get the most hits. The same applies for Human related items as well.

TL;DR: Marketplace is a mess due to mislabelled and badly located categories which LL created which forces creators to put things in the wrong place or not know where to put them. LL need to seriously look at what they have done in MP and fix it. 

Edited by Drayke Newall
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1 hour ago, Drayke Newall said:

TL;DR: Marketplace is a mess due to mislabelled and badly located categories which LL created which forces creators to put things in the wrong place or not know where to put them

1 hour ago, Drayke Newall said:

But then why stop with the ridiculousness there. Even though they have Avatar Components as a category they have the categories of Hair, Adult parts and Wings under Avatar Accessories instead of Components. Then they have the body part categories of Feet and Hooves, Ears and Tails and Horns and Antlers in avatar components under "Cosmetic Enhancements' next to makeup when the afore mentioned have nothing to do with Cosmetics.

1 hour ago, Drayke Newall said:

There is no need to assign metadata. All LL need to do is make it so that MP delivers stuff from MP directly to the inventory into MP categories

Congratulations, you, your self, have provided the reasons why your suggestion should NEVER be implemented.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Congratulations, you, your self, have provided the reasons why your suggestion should NEVER be implemented.

Did no such thing. Just need Linden Lab to organise MP categories/filters better than it is and it could be implemented.

No other Digital marketplace of user created content or delivery system from said MP's have any issues with creators adding content into the wrong categories as, those marketplaces have their categories simple, clear, relevant and organised not to mentioned managed by the dev team. It is only Second Life that suffers from this and it does so because LL have refused to fix and clearly define the categories themselves and also refuse to take a hands on approach to item management, moderation and approval.

Hopefully with the new UI upgrade LL are working on for MP these issues will be addressed.

I do find it amusing though that despite those same user created content marketplaces showing it is possible, people such as yourself and those other regular stuck in the past forum users continue to say it isn't possible when the evidence says otherwise just need LL to actively manage MP more.

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11 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Did no such thing. Just need Linden Lab to organise MP categories/filters better than it is and it could be implemented.

No other Digital marketplace of user created content or delivery system from said MP's have any issues with creators adding content into the wrong categories as, those marketplaces have their categories simple, clear, relevant and organised not to mentioned managed by the dev team. It is only Second Life that suffers from this and it does so because LL have refused to fix and clearly define the categories themselves and also refuse to take a hands on approach to item management, moderation and approval.

Hopefully with the new UI upgrade LL are working on for MP these issues will be addressed.

I do find it amusing though that despite those same user created content marketplaces showing it is possible, people such as yourself and those other regular stuck in the past forum users continue to say it isn't possible when the evidence says otherwise just need LL to actively manage MP more.

"LINDEN LAB SCREWS UP EVERYTHING THEY DO!"

"WE NEED LINDEN LAB TO DO MORE THINGS!"

Did I do that right?

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10 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

"WE NEED LINDEN LAB TO DO THE RIGHT THINGS!"

Fixed it for you.

How exactly do you plan to accomplish that?* And who even gets to decide what the "right things" are?

 

 

 

 

_________________________

(*And just a heads up - threatening to leave is only effective if people want you to stay.)

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14 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

How exactly do you plan to accomplish that?* And who even gets to decide what the "right things" are

_________________________

(*And just a heads up - threatening to leave is only effective if people want you to stay.)

Not my job to accomplish it other then to point out it isn't right and complicates whatever issue they were trying to fix. The Lab maintains control so it is up to them. Since their main income comes from Land sales and rentals, they aren't worried about making it easier for the consumer resident until active user count drops too low to support the Land Barons. I suspect they are fine with a concurrency topping out at 50K because any more then that the grid starts becoming exponentially laggy. 

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Rigged Shoes,  Pants, Shirt, Hair, etc.   - All attaching to the right hand. 

Too much work to assign it to something other than default.

So ...

Do you think it would actually work to 'make a thing' that would require an item creator to fill out more 'forms and paperwork'?

Correctly?

So that it lands in your Sub-Sub-Sub folder?

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1 hour ago, Drayke Newall said:

and those other regular stuck in the past forum users continue to say it isn't possible when the evidence says otherwise

I recall another previous incarnation of this thread.

Somebody posted their "possible" suggestion for improving things.

They demanded that LL should.

1. Massively simplify the viewer

AND at the SAME TIME

2. Incorporate a massively complicated full featured 3D modelling app into the viewer

AND at the SAME TIME

3. Add new UI element styles shamelessly copied from a game famous for having one  of the wor5st UI's in the industry

AND at the SAME TIME

4. Keep the new Simplified Viewer with 3D Mesh creation tools, and new UI elements looking EXACTLY :LIKE Viewer 1.23.

 

FOUR mutually incompatible demands for what LL should do to "fix SL".

Can you remember who that poster was? You should be able to.

 

1 hour ago, Drayke Newall said:

say it isn't possible when the evidence says otherwise just need LL to actively manage MP more

So, let's pretend that LL magically fix the categories, but a problem remains, there are millions of items on the MP, and most of them won't be in the right categories, so SOMEBODY has to go through them and manually sort them, probably a LOT of somebodies, at great expense, and over a long period of time.

 

And when they have finished, your idea will still be largely useless.

A Latex Bikini...

Is it

Apparel / Women's / Swimwear /

Apparel / Women's / Underwear /

Apparel / Women's / Sleepwear /

Apparel / Women's / L:ingerie /

Apparel / Women's / Fetish Wear /

Oh wait, the 7 sizes include... Jake...

Apparel / Men's / Swimwear /

Apparel / Men's / Underwear /

Apparel / Men's / Sleepwear /

Apparel / Men's / Lingerie /

Apparel / Men's / Fetish Wear /

Oh wait, it includes high heeled shoes too

Apparel / Women's / Outfits /

Apparel / Women's / Outfits / BDSM

Apparel / Men's / Outfits /

Apparel / Men's / Outfits / BDSM

Or is it Unisex, and if so, which subcategory of unisex?

 

And when you are looking for a womens latex thong to wear under a latex dress, the bikini bottom from this set wont show up in the women's thong category, right, because it's a bikini and heels costume and unisex.

 

So you are suggesting a MASSIVE overhaul of how EVERYTHING in SL is sold, that will cost vast amounts of money and time to achieve, so that people STILL won't find that bikini bottom in their inventories.

 

And your whole sad plan for failure depends on the assumption that EVERYTHING that EVERYONE buys is bought via the MP.

Evidence from shopping events, and inworld sales promotions says you're WRONG about that too.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

I recall another previous incarnation of this thread.

Somebody posted their "possible" suggestion for improving things.

They demanded that LL should.

1. Massively simplify the viewer

AND at the SAME TIME

2. Incorporate a massively complicated full featured 3D modelling app into the viewer

 

Our little lives get complicated...

It's a simple thing.

Simple as a flower,

And that's a complicated thing...

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

So, let's pretend that LL magically fix the categories, but a problem remains, there are millions of items on the MP, and most of them won't be in the right categories, so SOMEBODY has to go through them and manually sort them, probably a LOT of somebodies, at great expense, and over a long period of time.

How would it be if they headed the categories with this and then let the user make subfolders? The purchased content could go in their default category location and we'd already be further ahead then now.

87466905b126f62389a100bd926c5987.png

 

 

I'd tell you were the categories were from and I'm sure I'd enjoy the resulting tirade but that's getting a bit old. Suffice it to say, if they broke it down to just that we'd already be way ahead of where we are now and would save people a ton of work. 

 

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When I revamped one of my avatars who was part Slink and part system avatar, I tossed all the unusable inventory to a single 'old' folder and proceeded to get a brand new set of items. I've knocked down my inventory system to the essential categories and my recently revised avatars all have similar folder trees. I use search more often to find things like huds quickly and I use the save outfit feature to group items into outfits that can be accessed quickly. Instead of digging into my folders to get a recent hair, I just go to an outfit which had that hair and load it from there. New outfits are created out of recently acquired items and this gives me an additional sorting ability centered around the time things were purchased. I can still search the outfits as well  and I can also quickly switch between saved outfits to get a visual inventory.

Edited by Bree Giffen
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58 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

How would it be if they headed the categories with this and then let the user make subfolders? The purchased content could go in their default category location and we'd already be further ahead then now.

87466905b126f62389a100bd926c5987.png

 

 

I'd tell you were the categories were from and I'm sure I'd enjoy the resulting tirade but that's getting a bit old. Suffice it to say, if they broke it down to just that we'd already be way ahead of where we are now and would save people a ton of work. 

 

So where would a fatpack go that includes Top, Bottom, shoes, and accessories?  

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People who are capable to master our pile of mesh body and head abracadabra, can certainly master directories, making folders and sub folders. They just could not care less.
We are discussing a non issue.

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2 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

I recall another previous incarnation of this thread.

Somebody posted their "possible" suggestion for improving things.

They demanded that LL should.

1. Massively simplify the viewer

AND at the SAME TIME

2. Incorporate a massively complicated full featured 3D modelling app into the viewer

AND at the SAME TIME

3. Add new UI element styles shamelessly copied from a game famous for having one  of the wor5st UI's in the industry

AND at the SAME TIME

4. Keep the new Simplified Viewer with 3D Mesh creation tools, and new UI elements looking EXACTLY :LIKE Viewer 1.23.

 

FOUR mutually incompatible demands for what LL should do to "fix SL".

Can you remember who that poster was? You should be able to.

Oh here we go again. I see you are still spouting the same old nonsense without any evidence to back it up. You keep saying the same stuff over and over to discredit me but fail to realise you keep saying things I have never said. So let me show you how wrong you are... WITH evidence of the very posts you are talking about linked.

1. All I have ever said is for them to remove from the right click context menu options that are greyed out due to not being available for that specific action like every other program does (for example my post here). Along with upgrading systems to make the viewer more user friendly (i.e. on hover help menus - found here , as well as removing the 15 thousand ways a person can open specific windows like the people menu.

And no sorry, making the avatar customisation system/outfit system better does not equal simplifying the viewer. When I talked about simplifying it was in relation to decluttering the UI not removing features like you seem to think.

SL is a very complicated program and it is necessary for it to be complicated in certain areas i.e. the build menu. However there are a lot of features that SL has that are complicated for no reason i.e wear and add functions. Inventory wise wear is irrelevant since rigged mesh came about and creators do not attach body parts to their right attachment points. This means if someone selects wear for legs, their head may disappear. Therefore the wear/add mechanic needs to be SIMPLIFIED by removing wear as it no longer and cant function in its intended purpose.

2. Never said such a thing to introduce a full featured modelling app into the viewer. That would be absurd and impossible. All I have ever said is to introduce the ability to cut a prim intersecting another prim shape wise (complete Boolean Operations and expansion to the already existing cut and slice operations) and to allow the ability to merge linked prims into one object instead of having them separate prims linked. If you seriously think that is a full 3D modelling app then you clearly have not used a 3D modelling app.

3. No I never said to copy the UI from BDO. I used it as an example of how specific games can use systems like hover on a character to reveal interactions instead of right clicking and having those interactions clearly visible. I also used it as an example of how context menus can be used to slide over the view without reducing the screen size instead of having a gazillion windows popping up and having the need of only one menu option instead of 5 drop down menus at the top (Black Dragon has this now). That post is here. And to simplify the login screen and used the BDO one as an example (of which LL did simplify the login screen somewhat). I.e. decluttering.

But of course in your imagination that equals replicate and copy....

4. Looking like viewer 1.23... Sorry what? That was the most horrible garbage viewer they created. I know some people like its look, but no I DO NOT LIKE IT. Why would I ever say I want the viewer looking like 1.23 with pie menus and a theme that looks like it was made by a kindergarten student when I dont like it at all? 

So I have posted all the links to my points you argued all of which say nothing to what you claim. Now please let me know who you are talking about that wants a full 3D modelling app and a simplified viewer that looks like viewer 1.23 that copies a games UI because it isn't me.

2 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

So, let's pretend that LL magically fix the categories, but a problem remains, there are millions of items on the MP, and most of them won't be in the right categories, so SOMEBODY has to go through them and manually sort them, probably a LOT of somebodies, at great expense, and over a long period of time.

And yet just like MAGIC; VRChat, Roblox, Sinewave, Opensim, Unreal, IMVU, Avakin, etc, etc all manage to do it just fine where people put the items in the right place because those right categories exist. So once again it is an SL problem because those categories are wrong in sl.

And YES, somebody in LL should go though and manually sort them when they introduce new categories. Every other company does that and if they need lots of sorting or data entry they simply hire (cheap to pay) temps to fix such things just like every other company.

2 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

And your whole sad plan for failure depends on the assumption that EVERYTHING that EVERYONE buys is bought via the MP.

Ah.. no it doesn't, I stated in my post (you clearly didn't read properly) that for items not sold via MP (i.e. in world) the user should, when purchased, have a 'save to' window popup where they can select where it should go, just like Landmarks do now. So it would work.

Edited by Drayke Newall
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7 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

People who are capable to master our pile of mesh body and head abracadabra, can certainly master directories, making folders and sub folders. They just could not care less.
We are discussing a non issue.

Well we are discussing this for those for whom it is a challenge or just a PITA. From what I have heard speaking to various, creators, developers and store owners over the years is that they rarely have enough of an inventory to be concerned about. What they do have is usually self created and for the most part, they rarely buy anything from the marketplace. They are not what would be considered the average consumer or fashionesta. Are you in one of those categories by chance?

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1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

How would it be if they headed the categories with this and then let the user make subfolders? The purchased content could go in their default category location and we'd already be further ahead then now.

87466905b126f62389a100bd926c5987.png

 

I'd tell you were the categories were from and I'm sure I'd enjoy the resulting tirade but that's getting a bit old. Suffice it to say, if they broke it down to just that we'd already be way ahead of where we are now and would save people a ton of work. 

 

Where do dresses, bodysuits, jumpers, bathing suits, lingerie, kimonos, costumes and any kind of sets go?

Here's the problem, Arielle. Everyone of us uses SL differently, and thus we organize our inventories differently (if we organize them at all).

I know a guy who has maybe 3 outfits, because he's not in SL to play dress-up. He's here to chat. He has just enough clothing so he can fit in at a casual club, a formal club, or at a pool party. He builds a little, but he's basic when it comes to furnishing his house. He thus doesn't need a complicated inventory organization system, at least not for his hair, skin, body and clothing.

On the other hand, I like using subfolders within subfolders. My clothes are organized by Tops, Pants, Pants Outfits, Skirts, Dresses, Bathing Suits, Lingerie, Shoes, Accessories, Historical & Roleplay, Costumes & Seasonal, Naughty Clothes,...and this is just the 1st level of subfolders. Beyond this I have subfolders for BOM clothing, Spring & Summer, Fall & Winter, Dresses - Club, Dresses - Formals,... and Roleplay is broken down by different time periods or countries, so I can easily find an appropriate outfit for wherever I go in SL. - This is just clothing. I do the same thing for all my system folders, as well as for other specialized folders I've created.

A single, simple system will not work for SL, because it's not a simple game or chatroom platform.

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15 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Well we are discussing this for those for whom it is a challenge or just a PITA. From what I have heard speaking to various, creators, developers and store owners over the years is that they rarely have enough of an inventory to be concerned about. What they do have is usually self created and for the most part, they rarely buy anything from the marketplace. They are not what would be considered the average consumer or fashionesta. Are you in one of those categories by chance?

Excuse me? Creators often have huge inventories full of meshes, textures, and every item they sell - both packed and in folders. 

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