Nobody goes to the Community Exhibition in WelcomeHub.

[Midnoot]

2 minutes ago, Charlemagne Allen said:

I don’t see that all. If anything, no one asks questions at all or just wanders around without saying much. 

I mean I've seen the newbies ask a question and wander off before they can be answered , too often. . They don't know the chat range and I have no problem running after them and copy pasting my message again... maybe even remind them of the chat range ... lol

Edited February 23 by Midnoot

[Jaylinbridges]

Instead of local chat, you could just IM the newbie so you don't lose them.  But then it would look like everyone's just standing around not saying anything.  Like Fogbound.

Edited February 23 by Jaylinbridges

[Midnoot]

4 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Instead of local chat, you could just IM the newbie so you don't lose them.  But then it would look like everyone's just standing around not saying anything.  Like Fogbound.

Half the time they don't notice they you've messaged them until you get their attention in local. Lol...  at least wit real newbies p:... not that it's always that way.

[Ksenia Elcano]

9 hours ago, Viola Mole said:

Also welcome are your ideas on this forum. I have noted everything suggested so far, I will listen to what you have to say, think about what you have to say and take on topic observations and comments to discussion at my level...

I suggest the Lab provide every new resident with a bot that will act as their dance partner, conversationalist, and personal assistant.

[JUSTUS Palianta]

21 minutes ago, Ksenia Elcano said:

I suggest the Lab provide every new resident with a bot that will act as their dance partner, conversationalist, and personal assistant.

I don't think the newbs will like having a npc telling them what to do.  It will just be another thing to ignore while they run to people.

[Love Zhaoying]

7 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

There is NO fix for this problem.  

Can't the mentor just shout?

(Or reply in IM..)

[Sid Nagy]

7 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Patience is often more important than anything else.

The key line for all education, whether it is about grammar, making macrame art or teaching people to use SL.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

The key line for all education, whether it is about grammar, making macrame art or teaching people to use SL.

Macrame art?! Most of us are still making macaroni art.

[Sid Nagy]

1 hour ago, JUSTUS Palianta said:

I don't think the newbs will like having a npc telling them what to do.  It will just be another thing to ignore while they run to people.

Only the extroverts will run to people. Introverts want a machine giving short to the point answers. Controlled AI can help a lot to give the right information IMHO, but it will not be simple to feed them with the right information and the right information only IMHO.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

8 hours ago, xDancingStarx said:

Since the very first mentioning of the new mentor program there have been people who right out *hated* the fact that there would be new mentors

It's not "hating the fact that there will be mentors again", it's KNOWING that mentor programs always end up the same way. Always.

 

8 hours ago, xDancingStarx said:

And you could see these posts since the very first thread. It's not about discussing facts or reality, but about certain people pushing their unchangeable opinion that a mentor program is a bad idea

Ever heard the expression "Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it"?

This isn't the first Mentor Rodeo in SL.

Things to remember, just because somebody volunteers to be a mentor, does not in any way, guarantee that they will be any good at it, or have good intentions, or even that they will show up and actually do the "job".

There will always be some who don't pass muster for some reason or another. The quality of ANY mentoring program, LL or private, SL or RL, depends on the amount of oversight by the organisers, to prevent it being ruined by the lazy, venal, or incompetent.

 

The very worst thing you can do with ANY mentor program is say "...yes but, they are volunteers, volunteering their time voluntarily, so let's not complain about what's wrong". The good ones get fed up carrying the bad ones, and quit, and all that's left are the bad ones.

 

9 hours ago, xDancingStarx said:

I myself have been calling this out several times in the past because I find it just annoying to read

I'm sorry that the last 6000 years of recorded human history suggesting that voluntary mentor programs are less than wonderful, doesn't align with your hopes for the future.

 

8 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

A scenario I've seen quite often at the Hub...

New person walks up to a.mentor and ask a question.  Mentor replies.  Before the mentor gets out a complete sentence, the new person wanders off.  They come back and ask another question.  The mentor replies and yep, you guessed it.  The new person wanders off without listening to.the reply.

That's another of the common failures in mentoring programs, a lot of people don't WANT to be mentored. They might have a specific question, and ask one of the "info desk" people, but they expect a short answer, not a 2 hour lecture on "how to do SL properly", so they walk away.

And that doesn't include  the "Run-B4-Rez" types who don't bother listening to "helpers" or reading signs and scream off into the distance so fast they velocity-interpolate half way through a wall and get stuck, then log out.

 

I've worked on help lines, and seen this first hand, they ask a simple question with a complicated answer, and get angry when the answer isn't "let me fix that for you *click* it's done. goodbye!".

 

I'd never volunteer for a mentor program, it's too damn close to what I do for a living, and I stop doing that at the end of my shift,  But I know what the problems are, and why in jobs like mine, all sessions are recorded, and why there are weekly reviews of a random recording, with feedback, and people who consistently fail the reviews are "encouraged" to seek a different line of work.

 

Just saying "...But... But... They are VOLUNTEERSS! They are doing their best. They get a free pass!" doesn't help. Evidence suggests there's a problem, the layout is wrong, the methodology isn't working, the mentors don't seem to get the message over, etc.

 

9 hours ago, xDancingStarx said:

I quote from the original post: "Some people are so lost that they never make it out of the landing circle."

Of course this already implies that there are no mentors helping the "lost" people

If people are "lost & confused" in an area with "informative helpers", that very clearly suggests that the "informative helpers" are not doing that well at informing and helping, and that some kind of review, and remedial action might be needed.

 

If the layout of the area incorporates informational signs, but "lost & confused" people don't seem to get that information, that clearly suggests the signs are either in the wrong place, or have the wrong design, or the wrong information, and need review and remedial action.

 

If the layout of the place, that's supposed to lead "lost and confused" people to the gateway to what's next, doesn't lead them there, that clearly suggests the layout is problematic and needs review and remedial action.

 

 

[Persephone Emerald]

21 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

[snip]

I've worked on help lines, and seen this first hand, they ask a simple question with a complicated answer, and get angry when the answer isn't "let me fix that for you *click* it's done. goodbye!".

I'd never volunteer for a mentor program, it's too damn close to what I do for a living, and I stop doing that at the end of my shift,  But I know what the problems are, and why in jobs like mine, all sessions are recorded, and why there are weekly reviews of a random recording, with feedback, and people who consistently fail the reviews are "encouraged" to seek a different line of work.

[snip]

If people are "lost & confused" in an area with "informative helpers", that very clearly suggests that the "informative helpers" are not doing that well at informing and helping, and that some kind of review, and remedial action might be needed.

If the layout of the area incorporates informational signs, but "lost & confused" people don't seem to get that information, that clearly suggests the signs are either in the wrong place, or have the wrong design, or the wrong information, and need review and remedial action.

Viola Mole and others are supervising the mentors. I agree that if many apparent newbies seem lost and confused, then the arrangement or processes of the Welcome Hub may need some improvements, but I don't agree that getting rid of the mentors is the right solution. 

 

I bet you get tired of having to be polite and nice to everyone who calls in asking for help, even when you think the caller is stupid or you've heard the same complaint a thousand times already. It must feel good to have a forum where you can rip off that eternally pleasant mask and just say what you really think in anonymity and without having a supervisor looking over your shoulder.

[Jaylinbridges]

She's part of the Butterball Turkey Help Line - saving stupid people from eating raw turkey every day..

[Zalificent Corvinus]

41 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I bet you get tired of having to be polite and nice to everyone who calls in asking for help, even when you think the caller is stupid or you've heard the same complaint a thousand times already.

One of the first things they teach in the training course for people new to the job is "take control of the conversation", just being nice and listening without contradicting, doesn't help people with a problem, left to their own devices they will ramble on for 20 mins without actually saying what the real problem is.

So you need to take charge, get the details you need to find the problem, then talk them through sorting it out.

Imagine trying to talk a 60 yr old, with no computer or IT skills through the process of logging into a website with 2FA, when they lost the phone that the 2FA gets sent to, and can't remember the backup email, or their passwords ( stored on the lost phone ).

 

My "favourite" was the student who got over paid a month's money, then objected to being told they had to repay it, claiming they "NEEDED that money" to pay for the "Fork a Fresher Fortnight" 14 day new student drink & drugs binge.

There's good reasons why I don't volunteer for this sort of thing. And why I'm so cynical. about people in general

 

Edited February 23 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Porky Gorky]

12 hours ago, Simo Vodopan said:

Moles are like the DOT (Department of Transportation) of Second Life. They tend to road-ways and other public areas. While they don't have the same power of authority of a Linden they can report an offense to a Linden and then the Linden comes out to investigate.

Thanks!. I read the wiki link Viola posted, then googled ”beware the mole people” which took me to a 2008 transcript of a meeting where the LDPW was launched. I was delighted to see the first resident speaker was Prok, calling the Lindens out on their BS and trying to hold them to account. And she is still doing it now in this thread. What a legend!

Edited February 23 by Porky Gorky

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

Why does the Hub still have those perpetually empty and unused Motown and Cinema sims as part of the "New Resident" experience?

I doubt very much that the average New Resident wants to spend their first few minutes or hours in SL by sitting alone in an empty cinema watching videos, or walking around a deserted ghost town that has no live Motown music being performed in it.

(And even if Motown sim were actually busy, is it really a suitable place that a New Resident wants to be trapped inside,  suffering crippling lag because of crowds of high complexity avatars?)

Don't delete them, but instead move these two sims to somewhere else in the SL grid and instead provide something more relevant and useful to New Residents to teach them useful things about SL.

Use the two leftover spaces in the Hub to provide tuition/mentoring/videos in languages that are not solely English based. And provide them with portal pathways to places/groups relevant to their home nation and native language.

In the Real World, only 17% of humanity speaks English as a first language. But at the Hub, New Residents only get signs and tuition videos in English. So if you can't speak English there, you're ****ed.

Ironically, Second Lifes's main website has a choice of NINE languages, which might have persuaded the non-English speaking New Resident users to try SL in the first place.  But when they get to the Hub.... they're confronted with just English and no other option. How very welcoming!

Madness.

Edited February 23 by SarahKB7 Koskinen

[Rowan Amore]

4 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Can't the mentor just shout?

(Or reply in IM..)

I've IMed.  They often don't know how.that works.  If they are out of chat range, unless you follow them, you won't hear their reply.  If you follow them, they might think they are being followed.

I did notice more.directional signage when I stopped by the other day. That's a good thing.

[Midnoot]

47 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I've IMed.  They often don't know how.that works.  If they are out of chat range, unless you follow them, you won't hear their reply.  If you follow them, they might think they are being followed.

I did notice more.directional signage when I stopped by the other day. That's a good thing.

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

[Love Zhaoying]

26 minutes ago, SarahKB7 Koskinen said:

Naruto FTW!

[Love Zhaoying]

I know this thread was SUPPOSED to be about the "Community Exhibition" at the WelcomHub, and has pretty much become about the WelcomeHub in general.

With that in mind: I REALLY LIKE the retro-signage, etc. As I said when first visiting, it seems almost a copy of the Epcot signage designs (style and fonts).  Very comforting in a retro way.

 

[Persephone Emerald]

2 hours ago, SarahKB7 Koskinen said:

Why does the Hub still have those perpetually empty and unused Motown and Cinema sims as part of the "New Resident" experience?

I doubt very much that the average New Resident wants to spend their first few minutes or hours in SL by sitting alone in an empty cinema watching videos, or walking around a deserted ghost town that has no live Motown music being performed in it.

(And even if those two sims were actually busy, is it really a suitable place that a New Resident wants to be trapped inside,  suffering crippling lag because of crowds of high complexity avatars?)

I like the cinema. It shows how SL is used to make machinima. I've started to watch a couple movies there, but I admit I haven't had the patience to get through a whole one. I could watch most of these movies on YouTube, but I like the feel of being in a theater in SL. This also shows how movies and tvs work in SL, and I have had a newbie ask about that. I should take her over to the cinema rather than just showing her on a laptop at my SL house. (Also the cinema has the only public restroom at the Welcome Hub. 😆)

The Motown region is there because it's sponsored. I'm sure LL has a legal agreement to keep it there for a specified period of time. They probably would like other companies to pay for such regions too, so it's advertising for those that might be interested. There are 3 big problems with the Motown region however. 1st, that they're trying to sell something to residents (music) that they can already get for free in SL or through their computer. 2nd, that their service only works for people in the US (and maybe Canada?), and even when their demo version works for the rest of us, it's slow to load up. (It does help show how experiences can work though.) 3rd, that there have been no events there since the region first opened, so it's dead. "Oh look, and empty city region" is not a great marketing tool.

[Istelathis]

10 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

Only the extroverts will run to people. Introverts want a machine giving short to the point answers. Controlled AI can help a lot to give the right information IMHO, but it will not be simple to feed them with the right information and the right information only IMHO.

I don't mind the idea of AI NPC mentors, but would rather just open a browser and search for the answers myself.  It is just a much better way of acquiring information than through SL's chat interface.  I don't think anyone has ever taught me anything while actually in SL, or I have ever sought many answers in SL.  It is mostly just for socializing which I do little of regardless.

I am curious how many nooblets actually take advantage of the mentors for learning information, I would probably make for a horrible mentor because I would just compile a list of links for people to visit outside of SL and then inform them if they needed additional help to ask me, if they did then I would just go to a search engine, look up their question, and provide them a link to the answer 🤣

When I used to work in a call center, I would do the same thing.  We would get all sorts of questions, from a range of different software, by a bunch of different companies, with people from accounting, retailers, even doctors.  Just narrow down what they were trying to do, search on the Internet, and take them through it step by step.

While I think AI is more than capable of providing information in the same manner I acquire it, I do think there is more to it and as you say the extroverts or people just looking for social connection will go to real people.  Now I am curious what the typical conversation with mentors are, if it is mostly just socializing with a bit of instructing going on, or if it is mostly just instructions, perhaps just socializing, who knows?

As a side note, I absolutely love AI for learning at this point, it makes plenty of mistakes, but it points me in the right direction and provides me information I was unaware of that I can further probe into.  For me it is much more convenient than sorting through search results, going to the page, looking for a bit of information while reading a bunch of fluff.. or playing videos on youtube at 2x speed waiting for that one bit of information I was looking for to come up.

Edited February 23 by Istelathis

[Love Zhaoying]

15 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

I don't mind the idea of AI NPC mentors, but would rather just open a browser and search for the answers myself. 

I can see NPC mentors answering a questino by sending you a URL in chat.

..the punchline: if the URL is to the Forum LOL

[Istelathis]

8 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I can see NPC mentors answering a questino by sending you a URL in chat.

..the punchline: if the URL is to the Forum LOL

Oh, we forumites would have them running for the hills in no time

Noob: "Why does SL not have the ability to build in mesh?"

Regular 1: If you hate SL so much, then just leave!

Noob: I don't hate SL, I just wish we could build in mesh

Regular 2: Just do it in blender

Noob: I don't want to learn blender, I just want to build in SL

Regular 3: I agree with R 1, how dare you come in here demanding us to answer then get angry at us when 

Noob: I just was asking a question!?!?

Regular 1: It is how you asked the question!

Regular 2 and 3 thumb up Regular one, post mocking laughs as noob

* Bunch of regulars enter the scene, chaos erupts, and the conversation shifts to gender.

[Persephone Emerald]

I treat helping newbies inworld in much the same way as I do answering a question on the forums. The biggest difference is that inworld the person may have less patience and may ask questions too quickly for me to answer them all. (Thorough answers tend to be long and complicated.) Inworld, one can also take cues from how the newbie looks. You can tell straight away it their system body is showing through their mesh or if they're half naked with a box on their hand.