Women's expectations: Unrealistic

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Where I live, there was a few years ago a mass killing by a self-identified Incel who did precisely that in a van.

He killed 11 people.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/13/toronto-van-murders-court-victim-2018-attack

This is where certain groups would say, "vans don't kill people, people do".

 

[Luna Bliss]

43 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Particularly that it's used insultingly rather than sympathetically; We're insulting men for their lack of sexual partners because they're behaving desperate for sexual partners... I wonder if insulting them for failing contributes to their desperation?

Paul, are you serious here?  Or just bored and stirring the pot this morn?  Or ignorant regarding the difference between "a nice guy" and an incel?   Bleh...coming to this thread is making the stuck place in Blender more appealing this morn.

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Robberinthemuseum said:

most women don't have a concept of exactly how horny most guys are all the time

I don't think they're more horny....I think they feel more entitled to get what they want.

[Paul Hexem]

12 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

No one that I've seen here has conflated (as Love correctly observes) Incels with "men who have a problem finding a partner." We have responded to a particular kind of language of male entitlement that is characteristic of that culture.

And no, I am not going to be "sympathetic" to a toxic culture that literally argues that men are "owed" sex by women, and that is not infrequently homicidal. Incels have literally killed people in mass shootings and the like, including in my city.

Does some research, Paul.

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Paul, are you serious here?  Or just bored and stirring the pot this morn?  Or ignorant regarding the difference between "a nice guy" and an incel?   Bleh...coming to this thread is making the stuck place in Blender more appealing this morn.

Incel literally stands for "involuntarily celibate", right? How is that not "men who have problems finding a partner"?

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

12 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Paul, are you serious here?  Or just bored and stirring the pot this morn?  Or ignorant regarding the difference between "a nice guy" and an incel?   Bleh...coming to this thread is making the stuck place in Blender more appealing this morn.

Incel literally stands for "involuntarily celibate", right? How is that not "men who have problems finding a partner"?

Many people have trouble in life, often due to troubled childhoods -- addicts, psychopaths, those with narcissistic personality disorder, and more.  It's when their particular condition has at its core a tendency to blame and harm others that we judge their condition more harshly:

INCEL: a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile toward women and men who are sexually active.

[Love Zhaoying]

49 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

 

Even in the case of your first example, it hasn't been used sympathetically in this thread at all.

Perhaps. Missing is the fact the first person who brought it up, was conflating everything (not sure if they were trying to blow up the thread, or are just not knowing the history and normal usage of the term.)

[Robberinthemuseum]

5 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Incel literally stands for "involuntarily celibate", right? How is that not "men who have problems finding a partner"?

Yeah, a lot of these poor dudes just had no guidance and developed unhealthy addictions to pornography and gaming etc. They need compassion and guidance. Well, incels anyway. The guys standing at landing points are just horny 🤣

[Scylla Rhiadra]

6 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Incel literally stands for "involuntarily celibate", right? How is that not "men who have problems finding a partner"?

Oh come on, Paul.

Incel is a very specific term that was coined by the culture itself. And it references some very specific beliefs and values, most of them toxic.

No one uses the term as an umbrella for all men who are having difficulties finding a partner.

And it's very disingenuous to suggest that anyone here has.

[Luna Bliss]

9 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Oh come on, Paul.

Incel is a very specific term that was coined by the culture itself. And it references some very specific beliefs and values, most of them toxic.

No one uses the term as an umbrella for all men who are having difficulties finding a partner.

And it's very disingenuous to suggest that anyone here has.

You're being too harsh here, Scylla -- many don't have the ability to think critically.

[Luna Bliss]

Ima go back to Blender before I get in serious trouble.

[Love Zhaoying]

Switching back to a previous sub-topic:

I thought it was eye-opening when someone brought up the much higher number of "women" than "men" in Second Life.  (Quotes because, you never know until you know.)

That would imply that "men" have a great advantage, being in shorter supply.

On topic, if: 

1) "Women's" expectations are "unrealistic" In Second Life; and

2) "Men" are in short supply (in Second Life), then 

Then:

Wouldn't the overall result be that it's even MORE difficult for "women" to find "men" who meet their expectations In Second Life?

 

[Arielle Popstar]

24 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Incel literally stands for "involuntarily celibate", right? How is that not "men who have problems finding a partner"?

Just retribution for centuries of women being called "spinsters", "old maid" or frigid if they couldn't find a partner to marry. Good to have an insulting name for the males too!

[Paul Hexem]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

No one uses the term as an umbrella for all men who are having difficulties finding a partner.

This part is absolutely false, something I've seen with my own eyes.

But, my issue is specifically with propagating the term at all, and comes back to the core of the thread, in some ways. Here's a thread talking about one of the issues men face and in comes people slinging the word around. A word that @Luna Bliss has pointed out is specifically for judging men harshly that are having issues.

Don't come into a thread about men struggling to find partners, use the word, and then act shocked when you're called out for using the word.

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

A word that @Luna Bliss has pointed out is specifically for judging men harshly that are having issues.

Let's not paraphrase what I say in an incorrect manner in order to undermine my meaning -- I mean if you comprehended what I actually said.  We do judge conditions in society more harshly when the people having these conditions harm others.  People don't like to be harmed, Paul.  Here's what I said:

"Many people have trouble in life, often due to troubled childhoods -- addicts, psychopaths, those with narcissistic personality disorder, and more.  It's when their particular condition has at its core a tendency to blame and harm others that we judge their condition more harshly:

INCEL: a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile toward women and men who are sexually active."

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

This part is absolutely false, something I've seen with my own eyes.

But, my issue is specifically with propagating the term at all, and comes back to the core of the thread, in some ways. Here's a thread talking about one of the issues men face and in comes people slinging the word around. A word that @Luna Bliss has pointed out is specifically for judging men harshly that are having issues.

Don't come into a thread about men struggling to find partners, use the word, and then act shocked when you're called out for using the word.

The word was used, so far as I recall, with reference to two very specific cases that employed a language that was characteristic of Incel culture.

The actual point of so doing was to differentiate those viewpoints from the entirely legitimate plight of men who are having a hard time finding a match.

YOU are the first and only person to apply it indiscriminately.

[Rowan Amore]

21 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Oh come on, Paul.

Incel is a very specific term that was coined by the culture itself. And it references some very specific beliefs and values, most of them toxic.

No one uses the term as an umbrella for all men who are having difficulties finding a partner.

And it's very disingenuous to suggest that anyone here has.

The term was actually coined by a woman although initially, it was invcel.   That it's morphed into what it is today is unfortunate as I'm sure there are plenty of women who are involuntarily celibate as well.   

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

The term was actually coined by a woman although initially, it was invcel.   That it's morphed into what it is today is unfortunate as I'm sure there are plenty of women who are involuntarily celibate as well.   

That is precisely correct, but the point is that the term has morphed because it was appropriated by Incels and redefined by them.

Incel does NOT simply mean "involuntarily celibate" anymore: it is associated with a very highly developed system of values and beliefs, most of them revolving around utterly idiotic pseudo-applications of Darwinism and conspiracy theories. There has been a huge amount written on this subject, much of it by Incels themselves; 5 minutes on Google will demonstrate.

Claiming that the term "merely" means unable to get laid is like suggesting that "Proud Boys" are just "boys who are proud."

(That's mostly directed at Paul.)

This is an absurd and pointless digression that is, moreover, off-topic. I refuse to give more of my time to establishing the meaning and function of a term that is enormously well-documented. It has NOT been applied indiscriminately here, and suggesting that it has is the worst kind of disinformation.

[Love Zhaoying]

23 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

The word was used, so far as I recall, with reference to two very specific cases that employed a language that was characteristic of Incel culture.

The actual point of so doing was to differentiate those viewpoints from the entirely legitimate plight of men who are having a hard time finding a match.

YOU are the first and only person to apply it indiscriminately.

I checked the thread, and you brought up the word first, followed by another.

Darn! (I thought it was someone else, sorry.)

 

 

[Akane Nacht]

7 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

The last thing I am is a pervert lol. In my first 2 or maybe 3 years, I was into a bit of the other in SL, but not for the last 14 or 15 years. I'm not saying such things never happen but it's not something that I look for or try for. I will accept your invitation and IM you, and I will take note of your hat - if I actually see it 

ETA: IM sent

I was on briefly and saw your message. You seem charming. Let's have tea sometime and reminisce about our wild youths in SL 😇

[Scylla Rhiadra]

19 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I checked the thread, and you brought up the word first, followed by another.

Darn! (I thought it was someone else, sorry.)

 

 

I did, in reference to specific language cited by another poster, which I quoted.

I did NOT apply it indiscriminately to anything or anyone else.

[Love Zhaoying]

15 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I did, in reference to specific language cited by another poster, which I quoted.

I did NOT apply it indiscriminately to anything or anyone else.

I see, yeah - I was part of the discussion of the "videos" which claimed "women only want top-earners".

It's hard (for me) to really know though, if people who post such things "really believe it" or are just trying to get views.

[CaerolleClaudel]

9 hours ago, Randall Ahren said:

Yes, I know. Another poster also thought that this thread was about incels:

No, actually she didn't. She meant exactly what she said, that the list that was posted on one of the early pages in the thread was pure incel. I meant no more nor no less than what I said.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

No, actually she didn't. She meant exactly what she said, that the list that was posted on one of the early pages in the thread was pure incel. I meant no more nor no less than what I said.

But exactly what do you mean by it?

A couple choices:

1) The people saying it sound like "incels" for saying it (saying the things is bad)

2) The things being said are what "incels" believe and say (the things being said are not true)

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

9 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

This is getting into serious incel territory.

 

9 hours ago, Randall Ahren said:

That's what a nice guy is.

Randall does not know what a nice guy is. That's pretty sad.

Nice guys don't go on social media raging about how women reject them because they act like jerks.

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

Some peoples views about men turn out to be just totally devastating, offensive and even plain insulting.

I leave it at that.
 

I'm sorry. I never meant "teddy bear" to be an insult.