Notes on the WelcomeHub

[Luna Bliss]

5 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

Because as I said, they are not interested in oversight of the gateway program or providing any standard to it.

So long as you meet the criteria such as have a tutorial section and be an active community for 1 year prior. Thats all they care about. You also need a full region but that is only due to traffic size. That doesn't equate to "tutorial or new user experience needs to be the full region".

Have you ever met someone who expressed they became more acclimated to SL through these gateways?  I have not.  I'm sure there are some who found them helpful, but most I've spoken with say it's a friend they met along the way that caused them to learn and love SL.

This leads me to believe the gateways are not effective in terms of user retention.  Maybe they have other purposes?

[Drayke Newall]

7 minutes ago, Marigold Devin said:

I still think the NUX avatars will have a stigma attached to them, unless they are as good to look at as the current variety of mesh avatars available, and are compatible with clothing and accessories. No one uses the vast variety of avatars already available in the library section of all our inventories. NUX ones may just end up gathering dust in there too. 

I fear that will be the case as well and that is what a lot of the issue with the current system avatars is as well. Due to second life being a majority existing userbase, content creators cater to that. That is why you dont see stores selling nice mesh clothes riggged for system avatars but high end mesh bodies.

Unless their is a massive release of non linden lab created clothing, skin, hair, eyes, tattoos etc for the new NUX avatars they will be treated the same way. Because new users want that experience of shopping for clothes etc if it isnt there right alongside the clothes for top mesh bodies, the same stigma and pressure to upgrade early on will remain.

[Hunny Bunny]

I have explored various games, but I haven't come across any that begins by placing you in a world at level 0 with the finest weapons and equipment. It's the unattainable triangle, where obtaining quality necessitates an investment of either time (the grind) or money (pay to win). Individuals who anticipate beginning their journey with the best clothes, bodies, heads, etc., without any cost are deceiving themselves. I don't think most "gamers" are expecting that at all but what they do expect is to find people, places and things to do that are on par with their "level".  

[Drayke Newall]

27 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Have you ever met someone who expressed they became more acclimated to SL through these gateways?  I have not.  I'm sure there are some who found them helpful, but most I've spoken with say it's a friend they met along the way that caused them to learn and love SL.

This leads me to believe the gateways are not effective in terms of user retention.  Maybe they have other purposes?

Nope not one person has said "oh this place where I started was great, learnt a lot". The only purpose the gateways have that are different to the WelcomeHub areas is that LL allow you to have a api on your website for your community so that a person can click that "join SL now" button and you can sign up and join SL through that website. The trouble is the gateways can only function as a starting tutoral welcomehub area nothing more.

I think the gateways should be operated in a different way to what they are.

Linden Lab should have the WelcomeHubs as the default starting point. Now, despite my reservations about how the tutorials and set-up of them is, at least they get the mentors, and a standard starting experience, etc.

The gateways should be treated as the next step from there. So where people have been suggesting portals to differing communities, those portals should lead to the gateways of those communities. Have the portals similar to Linden Realm portal area, all nice etc and you theme the paths accordingly.

If you are interested in Scifi RP, you go to the scifi portal area on the region and its portals tp you to places that have listed themselves for that gateway, want exploring, portals to those. These gateways should also have requirements, new user avatars are allowed, free items offered to get them started and must always be active in some way.

The other bonus to this is it can also serve as a direct avenue to join a specific community or activity straight from a website. So say someone searches 'zombie virtual world game' in google, a 'gateway community' for 'Zombie Land' might show up. From there the person can look at the zombie game website and see it looks like a cool game.

They then click "Join Now' and using a modified SL account creation api they can select an in theme (or that gateway community made) avatar and spawn directly into that Zombie World and basically have their new user experience treated for what they are directly looking for (with no standard SL tutorial) and literally just play the game from the start as if they were logging in to play a actual game like seven days to die. If done right, some might not even realise it is second life other than the need to use the viewer.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Drayke Newall

[Rolig Loon]

Some people who have posted in the past day or so do not seem to have scrolled back far enough to see the comment that started the conversation about earning L$:

rasterscan said:

Todays was 'How do I make money' ?  I lolled, but the Mentors suggested build and sell on MP among other suggestions. That's the moment I realised it was a legit query with money making indeed catered for in SL.

Personally, I agree with many of the comments about how hard it is to earn L$ but I think it's quite appropriate to include advice about making and selling things "among other suggestions".  After all, there are people who do earn L$ that way.  Not mentioning it among the possibilities would be a strange omission.  When I have answered the "where do I get L$" question over the years, I have said (a) you don't need much L$ to enjoy SL, (b) you can buy L$ on the LindeX (redirecting your coffee budget in RL for a couple of weeks  is enough to get you started), (c) start looking in the InWorld Employment forum for posted opportunities, and then (d, e, f, g, .....) Learn how to be a creator or performer in SL, get into the rental business, etc....

[Luna Bliss]

27 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

Some people who have posted in the past day or so do not seem to have scrolled back far enough to see the comment that started the conversation about earning L$:

rasterscan said:

Todays was 'How do I make money' ?  I lolled, but the Mentors suggested build and sell on MP among other suggestions. That's the moment I realised it was a legit query with money making indeed catered for in SL.

Personally, I agree with many of the comments about how hard it is to earn L$ but I think it's quite appropriate to include advice about making and selling things "among other suggestions".  After all, there are people who do earn L$ that way.  Not mentioning it among the possibilities would be a strange omission.  When I have answered the "where do I get L$" question over the years, I have said (a) you don't need much L$ to enjoy SL, (b) you can buy L$ on the LindeX (redirecting your coffee budget in RL for a couple of weeks  is enough to get you started), (c) start looking in the InWorld Employment forum for posted opportunities, and then (d, e, f, g, .....) Learn how to be a creator or performer in SL, get into the rental business, etc....

I agree with all that, Rolig, but I think the first question should be "how much money are you hoping to earn here"?  By knowing their expectations the answer can be tailored appropriately.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Luna Bliss

[Silent Mistwalker]

7 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

If this is true, the onboarding situation is much worse than I thought it was.

I created a new alt today, used the LL viewer, yet still found myself rezzing in at the Firestorm gateway. I thought this must've been a glitch because I'd been there before on my Firestorm viewer.

Why would LL send people using a LL viewer to a Firestorm gateway or to an old, outdated and unmanned gateway if they want to retain new users?

I used Search to go to the Welcome Hub, but I feel sorry for newbies who would feel totally lost and confused.

Try changing your IP before registering a new account. Cycle that modem! 😉

[Rolig Loon]

15 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I think the first question should be "how much money are you hoping to earn here"? 

That's probably backwards, Luna.  There are certainly people who come to SL expecting to earn money.  I meet a lot of people, though, who don't have that in mind at all. If anything, for them the first question is "How much L$ do I need in SL?" 

I came to SL not expecting to need money at all (yeah, I was naive and it was a long time ago -- times have changed  🙄) but I don't have extravagant tastes and I hate shopping.  It didn't occur to me at first that money was even a question. When it did, I was living with freebie stuff.  I entered club contests, took up menial jobs (yes, I was a pole dancer for a while), and then started learning to make things, gradually working into the economy. Looking back on it, those first years feel like my teen years in RL (except for the pole dancing). I didn't own property until a long time later, when I took a risk and bought a private island, hoping to to support it as rental property as well as a home.  Yes, times have changed but I still meet newbies who come not expecting to need much L$ or a way to earn them. The way to introduce the topic is to give a brief overview of the possibilities and to advise starting out cautiously, just as you would if you were a young adult or a new immigrant in RL, learning what it costs to live on your own and figuring out how to do it.

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

40 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I think the first question should be "how much money are you hoping to earn here"? 

That's probably backwards, Luna.  There are certainly people who come to SL expecting to earn money.  I meet a lot of people, though, who don't have that in mind at all. If anything, for them the first question is "How much L$ do I need in SL?" 

I came to SL not expecting to need money at all (yeah, I was naive and it was a long time ago -- times have changed  🙄) but I don't have extravagant tastes and I hate shopping.  It didn't occur to me at first that money was even a question. When it did, I was living with freebie stuff.  I entered club contests, took up menial jobs (yes, I was a pole dancer for a while), and then started learning to make things, gradually working into the economy. Looking back on it, those first years feel like my teen years in RL (except for the pole dancing). I didn't own property until a long time later, when I took a risk and bought a private island, hoping to to support it as rental property as well as a home.  Yes, times have changed but I still meet newbies who come not expecting to need much L$ or a way to earn them. The way to introduce the topic is to give a brief overview of the possibilities and to advise starting out cautiously, just as you would if you were a young adult or a new immigrant in RL, learning what it costs to live on your own and figuring out how to do it.

I think you've misunderstood what I was saying.

I did not say to ask, out of the blue upon meeting a new resident for the first time, how much money are you hoping to earn. I was saying this should be the response to someone asking if they can earn money here.  We should ascertain what their expectations are before listing the possibilities.

Sure, not every new person who enters SL is concerned with earning money, but again, we are discussing those who have this concern.

But ROLIG!  You were a POLE DANCER?   

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Hunny Bunny said:

I have explored various games, but I haven't come across any that begins by placing you in a world at level 0 with the finest weapons and equipment.

I love that the library still has a "torch" and a "sword".  I wish more new users walked around holding their torches and swords!

[Love Zhaoying]

10 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Maybe the NUX avatars need to come with a hat they can hold out and a sign that says "Will Work for Lindens $" ?

 

A dime doesn't buy what it used to!

[Luna Bliss]

26 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

There are certainly people who come to SL expecting to earn money. 

Just to elaborate a bit more, and show another side to this where I would encourage someone who desired to earn money here...

On occasion I've met an artist type of resident with talent who needed money and wanted to earn their living via their art, and I could see they likely would do well here financially if they were dedicated. When I meet such people I inform them to be prepared to spend every waking moment for a couple of years at least pursuing this goal, including learning technical skills they might not have (3d programs for creating mesh), and suggest there would be a high possibility they could earn their 1st life living here.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Luna Bliss

[Zalificent Corvinus]

Time to get realistic here...

 

Any "Mentor" who tells a less-than-a-day-old, no-payment-info-on-file noob that they can earn in-game shopping tokens by "making stuff and selling it on the MP" fully deserves to be instantly dismissed from the Mentoring Program for Gross Incompetence.

 

Why ?

Because it's just not true.

 

First of all, the noob has NO marketable content creation skills, none. Even if they are an experienced 'games content' creator, what they know about SL content is ZERO.

They cannot upload mesh they made in blender, or textures the made in substance painter or animations, or sounds, because...

Uploading content requires shopping-tokens, and they do not have any.

They cannot sell content on the MP because...

Opening a store on the MP requires that you are Payment-Info-Used, which means buying shopping-tokens on the Lindex, and they haven't.

 

In addition, they cannot WIN shopping-tokens in the Linden Realms at the rate of 25 L$ a WEEK, because playing the "game" requires that they are Payment-Info-Used.

They cannot DJ, because they need a stream, and those cost shopping-tokens to rent in SL or real money to rent outside of SL.

They cannot Host, as no venue will hire a 1 day old account in a noob island starter avatar for a post like that.

 

Realistically, their only actual option for earning shopping-tokens in-world is signing up for the indentured servitude program at one of SL's most infamously scummy brothels, where they buy you a decent looking hooker avatar, and rlv lock you on their region as a pole dancing tip jar hooker, and they keep all your tips until you "work off your debt". 

And they make damn sure they NEVER tell the noob that they can break out of rlv by swapping viewer.

From conversations with survivors of that place it typically took two weeks for a noob to figure they could escape, by which time the Brothel had made about 4 times what they spent dressing the noob in the first place.

 

Is that the message we want to send?

Welcome to SL, unless you have purchased L$ your best bet for obtaining shopping-tokens and not looking like crap any more is volunteering for Indentured Slavery as an RLV Locked Pole Dancing Tip Jar Hooker.

 

[Persephone Emerald]

54 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Try changing your IP before registering a new account. Cycle that modem! 😉

Since I was logging in from a different RL location, I think my IP was different. Originally I was using my own internet service through a major carrier in a major city. When I created this alt account, I was using a public library internet service in a suburb/ satellite city.

[Arielle Popstar]

3 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

I was speaking more to the discussion about how to make money in SL.  The honest answer is that you can't.  Not anymore.  Not as a new resident.  There are no longer the same options as when I started.  Whether SL can entice them enough to spend money is a whole other subject which I wasn't addressing.

But which would be good to discuss because for SL the bottom line is converting freebie noobs into becoming consumers of goods and services for the sake of the economy and the platform as a whole. In some ways it would be good for the Welcome region to have advertising for Premium subscriptions as well as complete avatars available to be purchased should one be willing to buy some L$, rather then leave it to them to have to research, find, put together a complete avatar through inworld stores and the MP. The Lab could even offer to sell L$ for up to a week old newbies without the 10% surcharge. Once someone has been enticed to purchase the first time, it will be that much easier the next time.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

This leads me to believe the gateways are not effective in terms of user retention.  Maybe they have other purposes?

"Hey everybody, Clueless Oldbiefossil here, rez date 2000 and dumb, I opened a Gateway! I'm Helping Poor Noobs, I'm a wonderful person now, that I've become a Digital Social Worker Wannabe, I feel soooooooooooo good about my self, and I'm sure the noobs will think good of me too..."

 

*cough*

[Rowan Amore]

11 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

But which would be good to discuss because for SL the bottom line is converting freebie noobs into becoming consumers of goods and services for the sake of the economy and the platform as a whole. In some ways it would be good for the Welcome region to have advertising for Premium subscriptions as well as complete avatars available to be purchased should one be willing to buy some L$, rather then leave it to them to have to research, find, put together a complete avatar through inworld stores and the MP. The Lab could even offer to sell L$ for up to a week old newbies without the 10% surcharge. Once someone has been enticed to purchase the first time, it will be that much easier the next time.

Yep, worthy of discussion.  

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Just to elaborate a bit more, and show another side to this where I would encourage someone who desired to earn money here...

On occasion I've met an artist type of resident with talent who needed money and wanted to earn their living via their art, and I could see they likely would do well here financially if they were dedicated. When I meet such people I inform them to be prepared to spend every waking moment for a couple of years at least pursuing this goal, including learning technical skills they might not have (3d programs for creating mesh), and suggest there would be a high possibility they could earn their 1st life living here.

Luna, have you forgotten all the little stores you encouraged people to have along the way?  I think you have!

Like that interior design decorator that was so good  (oh God, yeah, I know you hate interior design) that you hired her once for a big job and suggested she start her own little business and earn some $.  And that woman who was good at texturing and so encouraged to open a texture store.   On, and on.

And Rowan, wow would she ever be a good personal consultant teaching how to put together a great-looking avatar, and likely earn a bit of $L if she cared to.

You can, yes, earn money here in smaller amounts, but all of these people took a long road to get to that place.  Newbies should be informed that the road is long and sometimes difficult if they desire to earn $L inworld, if they come with the question of "how do I earn money here"?

Edited July 19, 2023 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

22 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

This leads me to believe the gateways are not effective in terms of user retention.  Maybe they have other purposes?

"Hey everybody, Clueless Oldbiefossil here, rez date 2000 and dumb, I opened a Gateway! I'm Helping Poor Noobs, I'm a wonderful person now, that I've become a Digital Social Worker Wannabe, I feel soooooooooooo good about my self, and I'm sure the noobs will think good of me too..."

 

*cough*

I am going to have to investigate these gateways and see what's up with them. I'm wondering, does the Rockcliffe University have one? I'm doing some design work in a region adjacent to theirs, and peek over at it from time to time. Likely some educational type peeps have the attitude you're describing, but not all by any means. Some just like to pass on knowledge -- after all, that's how we, as a community, grow and become better.

[Luna Bliss]

4 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

In some ways it would be good for the Welcome region to have advertising for Premium subscriptions as well as complete avatars available to be purchased should one be willing to buy some L$, rather then leave it to them to have to research, find, put together a complete avatar through inworld stores and the MP.

That sounds good as it would simplify the process for a new resident, but then whose avatars available for purchase would we put there?   I hear people screaming FIC just at the thought of it.   Maybe a contest, where 10 lucky avatar/clothes creators would be randomly chosen to market their wares at the Welcome area.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Luna Bliss

[Love Zhaoying]

22 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Yep, worthy of discussion.  

I am already disgusted enough!

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

I am going to have to investigate these gateways and see what's up with them. I'm wondering, does the Rockcliffe University have one? I'm doing some design work in a region adjacent to theirs, and peek over at it from time to time. Likely some educational type peeps have the attitude you're describing, but not all by any means. Some just like to pass on knowledge -- after all, that's how we, as a community, grow and become better.

Sure, and some see it as an alternative to subscribing to the "Traffic Hunt" system, one that doesn't require any work or spending any L$.

 

You have a full Estate Region, 20,000 prims worth of LI allowance, you devote a WHOLE 20 prims to rezzing a Noob Info Board, and some prim cube dispensers filled with 15 year old full perm copybotted system avi freebies, and apply for Gateway status, and hey presto, LL's Randomised Noob Abandoner system randomly drops confused noobs on your island where it will take them AT LEAST 5 mins to either rage quit, or figure out how to leave, thus generating FREE traffic points to push your place up the rankings.

 

There are several possible reasons for opening a Gateway, most of them selfish, Gateways that actually make an effort to help noobs are probably the rarest type.

[Luna Bliss]

Just now, Zalificent Corvinus said:

There are several possible reasons for opening a Gateway, most of them selfish, Gateways that actually make an effort to help noobs are probably the rarest type.

I suspect you are right, sadly.

[Silent Mistwalker]

42 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Since I was logging in from a different RL location, I think my IP was different. Originally I was using my own internet service through a major carrier in a major city. When I created this alt account, I was using a public library internet service in a suburb/ satellite city.

Ok. Did you use the same email or a different one? 

Or maybe LL IDed you via MAC address or something? Cookies maybe?

There's gotta be a reason for it.

[xDancingStarx]

33 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

There are several possible reasons for opening a Gateway, most of them selfish, Gateways that actually make an effort to help noobs are probably the rarest type.

Just like mentors who are power hungry and just wanna show off with their group title while they actually don't know anything? I recognize a pattern here..

(just to clarify, that was sarcasm)