Notes on the WelcomeHub

[BJoyful]

6 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

i wonder how many residents you remember after weeks or days   ánd what's the amount on the thousends new subscribers daily?

I remember the ones who speak to me or ask me questions. ♥  I've not spoken to any who endured a difficult or bad experience so I feel the ones I've had the privilege to chat with have had a positive experience and the Mentors seem to enjoy what they are volunteering to do for the most part.  Personally, I don't think I could do it so I do admire those who take it on.

I'm not there to record statistics and we don't stay there long enough or regularly enough to even try to do such a thing... and Second Life has been here for twenty years, doing what they do (which is their business).  I've been here for 8 years, doing what I do (which is my pleasure). 

I think if you really want to know those figures for some purpose which would be helpful to Second Life you could probably just ask a Linden and they will give you an honest answer.  Even if that answer is none of your business they will tell you so respectfully and kindly.  I've found them all pleasant, honest and professional people who really love their jobs and do their best to make Second Life the best place they're able to.  I encourage them to keep on listening, learning, improving and growing. 

I'm certain they'll let us know if they need any of our help, as they did when they asked for Mentors. ♥

[BJoyful]

12 hours ago, Randall Ahren said:

What's your estimate of the percentage of residents that return after their first login?

I'm not sure, but when I've been there I'd guess about one third to one half of all the newer Residents present are more than 0 days old and less than 200 days old ♥

From my People window...

Edited July 23, 2023 by BJoyful
added pic

[xDancingStarx]

52 minutes ago, BJoyful said:

I'd guess

always dangerous to "guess" or "assume". especially when just looking at a screenshot. how many of these are new users? how many are just alts? how many are alts that are camping there to see how the new welcome hub is going? it's impossible to tell or trying to interpret anything into these numbers.

[BJoyful]

3 minutes ago, xDancingStarx said:

always dangerous to "guess" or "assume". especially when just looking at a screenshot. how many of these are new users? how many are just alts? how many are alts that are camping there to see how the new welcome hub is going? it's impossible to tell or trying to interpret anything into these numbers.

I'm not there for any purpose except my pleasure in socializing while I have coffee and begin my day in Second Life.  I find it interesting to chat with new Residents as well as longer time Residents.  I love statistics so it comes naturally to me to be interested in them, but not interested enough to actually record them 😉

I was asked to estimate...

...so I did and added a screenshot after I made my estimate in the form of a thoughtful guess.  I don't think I was doing anything dangerous... unless I misunderstood the request?  It makes no difference to me personally if any Resident is an Alt or a returning Resident.  If a person asks me for something I can comfortably provide, I will generally do so because I enjoy feeling I contributed to a good experience 🥰

[xDancingStarx]

16 minutes ago, BJoyful said:

It makes no difference to me personally if any Resident is an Alt or a returning Resident

But you are referring to a post where you talk about "new residents". So I just misunderstood you, you didn't want to claim that those people are new residents in fact, what you meant were "accounts" in general and there is no estimate about "new residents" in the first place. In that case I had misunderstood you

[BJoyful]

18 minutes ago, xDancingStarx said:

But you are referring to a post where you talk about "new residents". So I just misunderstood you, you didn't want to claim that those people are new residents in fact, what you meant were "accounts" in general and there is no estimate about "new residents" in the first place. In that case I had misunderstood you

I think of everyone who speaks to me as a Resident (a person behind that avatar) in some form. 🙂

(Although AI is advancing rapidly 😉)

 

[Sasy Scarborough]

15 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

i wonder how many residents you remember after weeks or days   ánd what's the amount on the thousends new subscribers daily?

 

Depending on what you are like, you can remember a fair few people as fleeting as the moment may be in them arriving on a landing point. These are not a series of Daves and Michelles, they often have rather memorable names. If you are spending time at the Welcome Hub and greeting people, interacting even if one sided, you will tend to store those names, for at the very least, a few days. 

[Persephone Emerald]

21 hours ago, Randall Ahren said:

What's your estimate of the percentage of residents that return after their first login?

I think asking another resident to estimate the number of *new accounts* that return after their first login is baiting, since only LL has the data available to them to determine such figures.

[Persephone Emerald]

49 minutes ago, Sasy Scarborough said:

Depending on what you are like, you can remember a fair few people as fleeting as the moment may be in them arriving on a landing point. These are not a series of Daves and Michelles, they often have rather memorable names. If you are spending time at the Welcome Hub and greeting people, interacting even if one sided, you will tend to store those names, for at the very least, a few days. 

Not for me. I'm horrible at remembering names, though I may remember the problem they were trying to resolve and how others were responding to them.

[Luna Bliss]

12 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Not for me. I'm horrible at remembering names, though I may remember the problem they were trying to resolve and how others were responding to them.

I'm the same...I remember patterns...even from interactions with people years ago.

But their names? Often not.  I even forget the names of people in my day-today-life.

[Randall Ahren]

1 hour ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I think asking another resident to estimate the number of *new accounts* that return after their first login is baiting, since only LL has the data available to them to determine such figures.

You should know that LL won't provide the information. When population trends became unfavorable, LL stopped providing that kind of data. It made their business look bad. So I have to ask another resident or rely upon my own observations.

Based on my personal observations, the welcome hubs are dreadfully boring, both for the new residents and the mentors. Review the original post by animats that started this long thread about the new welcome hub: "This place is boring. Somehow, the first ten minutes in Second Life need to be made fun. Somehow."

There is a lot of standing and staring at the welcome hubs and it's creepy. LL could make the welcome hubs less creepy by providing good quality AOs for the new residents to make them seem more natural and reducing the size of their hands (their hands look like baseball mitts).

Given the boredom and creepiness, I really don't expect a high return rate for new residents, maybe 10%

Edit: It's also creepy having mentors watching you and making suggestions. What other game has mentors?

Edited July 23, 2023 by Randall Ahren

[Rolig Loon]

36 minutes ago, Randall Ahren said:

What other game has mentors?

Who cares?

[Persephone Emerald]

38 minutes ago, Randall Ahren said:

[snip]

There is a lot of standing and staring at the welcome hubs and it's creepy. LL could make the welcome hubs less creepy by providing good quality AOs for the new residents to make them seem more natural and reducing the size of their hands (their hands look like baseball mitts).

Given the boredom and creepiness, I really don't expect a high return rate for new residents, maybe 10%

Edit: It's also creepy having mentors watching you and making suggestions. What other game has mentors?

At the SLB16 celebration there were I think 2 female and 2 male avatars available to everyone. I picked up the male ones for my guy alt and liked the AO sets in them. I wonder what happened to those avatars and AO sets? Why couldn't LL offer those AO sets to new residents, rather than forcing them to ask other residents why their own walk is weird and how can they make their animation better?

The creepiness of new users being watched by other residents is being addressed. When my alt Alycia was a Dinkie standing atop a pillar looking down at new residents, Viola Mole asked her/me not to stand there, because she won't allow residents to be standing or sitting above the newbies, looking down at them.

Online games usually have pop-ups to guide new players along a carefully controlled path at the beginning of the game. Since SL is an open world with no preordained path to follow, it needs real people to answer the questions of new users instead. There are notecards, web pages and videos that fulfill the same function as pop-up guides in a game, but because it's more complicated than a game and because new users will likely want to get varying experiences here, we need real people to answer their specific questions.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Persephone Emerald

[Randall Ahren]

14 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

Who cares?

New residents, because it's not in other games, and they're going to think it's weird. And it is weird. This is the time of AI and automation. People expect online learning with automated systems and video tutorials, not labor-intensive, human mentors hovering over their shoulders.

[Solar Legion]

That's nice.

Toss the expectations out.

[Randall Ahren]

48 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

SL is an open world with no preordained path to follow, it needs real people to answer the questions of new users instead.

The mentor  program is certainly unique. However, it was tried before and found not to work. What's different about this iteration that will make it successful?

[Rowan Amore]

20 minutes ago, Randall Ahren said:

People expect online learning with automated systems and video tutorials, not labor-intensive, human mentors hovering over their shoulders.

That's also available so all a new user has to do.is say thanks and be on their way to.the tutorials.  Something for everyone.  Each option compliments the other if need be.

[Randall Ahren]

20 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Toss the expectations out.

You're talking about the customers. If the game doesn't at least meet the expectations of the customers, they won't return.

[Solar Legion]

That's nice.

Toss the expectations out.

That statement is not aimed at anyone in particular - it is universal.

Toss. Them. Out.

[Sasy Scarborough]

32 minutes ago, Randall Ahren said:

The mentor  program is certainly unique. However, it was tried before and found not to work. What's different about this iteration that will make it successful?

Maybe we are older and wiser? A lot of people that are in the system have been here a long time, a lot of people turning up to help have been here a long time. Possibly the investment in doing it right this time. In the past everyone involved only had a set number of years under their belts, now that is considerably different.
We have learned along the years, we have grown as a community, we understand better now what it is like to be new, what it has been like to learn and adapt to new features. We possibly have more empathy. I personally want it to succeed, because I want people coming into Second Life now to have experiences that we have been lucky enough to have had. No one prepares you for what Second Life can be, but we can certainly try by example. 

[BJoyful]

2 minutes ago, Randall Ahren said:

If the game doesn't at least meet the expectations of the customers, they won't return.

Second Life isn't a game.  If the users you call customers arrive expecting a game... they probably will be disappointed, but perhaps they will return and ask a few questions and discover SL is more than their limited expectations.

If new Residents want to create a game or practice socializing in another language or market 3D mesh they have already made or any number of infinite possibilities they are probably in the right place.  If they do have questions about how to do most anything, they have the opportunity to ask a real live person.  🥰

Mentors also are a deterrent to misbehavior 😉

[Persephone Emerald]

@Randall Ahren

If you want SL to be more like a mmorpg, maybe we should exclude seasoned residents from the Welcome Hub, then have a region just beyond it where they can attack the newbies, get points for killing them, and take all their stuff?

[Luna Bliss]

20 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

@Randall Ahren

If you want SL to be more like a mmorpg, maybe we should exclude seasoned residents from the Welcome Hub, then have a region just beyond it where they can attack the newbies, get points for killing them, and take all their stuff?

LOL you win the forum today

[Randall Ahren]

8 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

If you want SL to be more like a mmorpg, maybe we should exclude seasoned residents from the Welcome Hub, then have a region just beyond it where they can attack the newbies, get points for killing them, and take all their stuff?

Funny, but it misses the problem. The problem is more people leave than stay. The root cause is boredom. London City has the best setup to alleviate the boredom of the first login for new residents. The Firestorm welcome area is the second best setup.

There is still a problem with boredom among experienced residents. Most experienced residents expect to be bored. So many alleviate their boredom by parking their avatar AFK while they do something else. That frustrates other residents who find locations filled with bots and AFK avatars. So they quit logging in.

Animats proposed detecting AFK avatars and getting them out of the way. It would probably help.

AFK avatars are not as much as a problem in a mmorpg because they tend to get killed and removed from the game. However, it is a problem for teams to have a member AFK, so there is an abuse reporting system for non-participating/AFK team members.

[Kathlen Onyx]

21 minutes ago, Randall Ahren said:

Funny, but it misses the problem. The problem is more people leave than stay. The root cause is boredom. London City has the best setup to alleviate the boredom of the first login for new residents. The Firestorm welcome area is the second best setup.

There is still a problem with boredom among experienced residents. Most experienced residents expect to be bored. So many alleviate their boredom by parking their avatar AFK while they do something else. That frustrates other residents who find locations filled with bots and AFK avatars. So they quit logging in.

Animats proposed detecting AFK avatars and getting them out of the way. It would probably help.

AFK avatars are not as much as a problem in a mmorpg because they tend to get killed and removed from the game. However, it is a problem for teams to have a member AFK, so there is an abuse reporting system for non-participating/AFK team members.

You can't know if they are really AFK or they just aren't responding to you. If you are talking about a popular blue's club everyone's reading profiles so if your profile doesn't interest them then they mostly likely wouldn't respond to an IM.

I haven't run into a lot of places that have AFK or BOTS but I tend to stay in the 4-5 clubs I know only. I'm never bored in SL. People who are bored are bored of their own accord. There is no reason to be bored here at all.