New Feature: Scripted Agent Estate Access Discussion

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

And the hits keep coming.

LL has a new policy on the use of personal data.

This is the missing piece, I think.

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Using_Personal_Data

How'd you hear about this? Did I miss another blog entry or announcement? It's been a busy day.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

YES! THIS!

"After Residents consent to the Second Life Terms of Service and connected Privacy Policy, Second Life presents select information about Residents to each other within the Second Life environment. This presentation is for the sole purpose of facilitating interaction within Second Life. Without a separate agreement in place (for e.g. as a sub-processor or vendor), there is no default right that any third party has to collect, store, process, or transmit a Second Life Resident’s Personal Data outside of Second Life."

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

How'd you hear about this? Did I miss another blog entry or announcement? It's been a busy day.

Soft Linden tweeted it.

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Soft Linden tweeted it.

Tweet?! I hope they at least put it out on Mastodon.

..Tweet..

 

[Rowan Amore]

4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

YES! THIS!

"After Residents consent to the Second Life Terms of Service and connected Privacy Policy, Second Life presents select information about Residents to each other within the Second Life environment. This presentation is for the sole purpose of facilitating interaction within Second Life. Without a separate agreement in place (for e.g. as a sub-processor or vendor), there is no default right that any third party has to collect, store, process, or transmit a Second Life Resident’s Personal Data outside of Second Life."

But followed by this still puts most of the responsibility on us to, #1 find the info.on the internet that has been collected, #2 handle it ourselves.

So basically, it's now completely against the rules yet they can't do anything about it if we don't know it's happening.

Linden Lab cannot govern activities that happen outside of the Second Life platform. Where Residents determine violations happen outside of Second Life, such as when Personal Data is presented on third-party websites without their consent, multiple options are available.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

But followed by this still puts most of the responsibility on us to, #1 find the info.on the internet that has been collected, #2 handle it ourselves.

So basically, it's now completely against the rules yet they can't do anything about it if we don't know it's happening.

Linden Lab cannot govern activities that happen outside of the Second Life platform. Where Residents determine violations happen outside of Second Life, such as when Personal Data is presented on third-party websites without their consent, multiple options are available.

That was always going to be an issue, of course.

As regards LL's ability to act on it -- if the data is being collected within SL, by any means (including, but not exclusively bots), LL can move against that data collecting operation, shutting it down.

 

[primerib1]

So let's say I have a club located in a rented parcel in an estate.
And I use bots to provide services such as greeter/usher, bartending, &c.

Then the estate owner activates the Bot Ban option.

Does that mean I'm sorely out of luck?

Because I'm not sure the estate owner will allow me, a renter, to have my bots to become Estate Manager, for therein lies a clear and present danger of me messing up with the estate, purposefully or accidentally...

Whelp, time for me to hunt around for bot-friendly estates then.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, primerib1 said:

Does that mean I'm sorely out of luck?

Yes? Or, you can be like @Paul Hexemand de-register your Bots?

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Yes? Or, you can be like @Paul Hexemand de-register your Bots?

Isn't counseling someone to commit a crime itself a criminal act?

😉

[primerib1]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

Yes? Or, you can be like @Paul Hexemand de-register your Bots?

So basically, I have only 3 options here:

1. Stop using bots, and make club visitors unhappy, possibly resulting in them stopping to come to my place
2. Move my club somewhere else, and deal with the tediousness of rebuilding the club, resetting things, another marketing campaign etc.
3. Break the rules by operating bots but not marking them as "scripted agents", thus fully putting myself in the risk of being banned if someone who hates me reported me for operating bots but not registering them as "scripted agents"

"I have 3 poisons, which one is tastier for you?"

[Rick Nightingale]

6 minutes ago, primerib1 said:

So let's say I have a club located in a rented parcel in an estate.
And I use bots to provide services such as greeter/usher, bartending, &c.

Then the estate owner activates the Bot Ban option...

This is (edit: one of the reasons...) why I keep saying we need it at parcel level and whitelistable.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Rick Nightingale

[Innula Zenovka]

8 minutes ago, primerib1 said:

So let's say I have a club located in a rented parcel in an estate.
And I use bots to provide services such as greeter/usher, bartending, &c.

Then the estate owner activates the Bot Ban option.

Does that mean I'm sorely out of luck?

Because I'm not sure the estate owner will allow me, a renter, to have my bots to become Estate Manager, for therein lies a clear and present danger of me messing up with the estate, purposefully or accidentally...

Whelp, time for me to hunt around for bot-friendly estates then.

According to the LL post about it, 

• When deny_bots is ON, all scripted agents that are not explicitly listed in the estate’s Allowed Access list will be denied access to all of the regions within the Estate.

You don't need to ask the Estate Owner to give the bots Estate Manager status, just to add them to the Region's Allowed Access list.

 

[primerib1]

2 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

According to the LL post about it, 

• When deny_bots is ON, all scripted agents that are not explicitly listed in the estate’s Allowed Access list will be denied access to all of the regions within the Estate.

You don't need to ask the Estate Owner to give the bots Estate Manager status, just to add them to the Region's Allowed Access list.

 

Oh okay, missed that one line.

I blame it on not enough coffee in the morning (still 6:27am in my place at the time of posting)

Hopefully the Allowed Access list is not already full in the estate where the club is located.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

YES! THIS!

"After Residents consent to the Second Life Terms of Service and connected Privacy Policy, Second Life presents select information about Residents to each other within the Second Life environment. This presentation is for the sole purpose of facilitating interaction within Second Life. Without a separate agreement in place (for e.g. as a sub-processor or vendor), there is no default right that any third party has to collect, store, process, or transmit a Second Life Resident’s Personal Data outside of Second Life."

I suspect the whole thing is due to shushpishuns that ElEl was not in compliance with the GeeDeePeeArr.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Love Zhaoying
I'm using code because Lindens are bad at maths so probably bad at code too.

[Innula Zenovka]

24 minutes ago, primerib1 said:

Oh okay, missed that one line.

I blame it on not enough coffee in the morning (still 6:27am in my place at the time of posting)

Hopefully the Allowed Access list is not already full in the estate where the club is located.

You can have 500 people on the region's allowed list, so unless your club is on a region that doesn't allow public access (not the best place for a club, perhaps) I doubt that would be an issue. 

[Soft Linden]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Soft Linden tweeted it.

 

I pointed it out, but you'll find a link in the Scripted Agent Policy that was blogged today. See the "Using Personal Data" link within that policy.

Of note, the Scripted Agent Policy was previously named the Bot Policy. "Scripted Agent" is a term that's inclusive of what people often call a "Bot."

[Love Zhaoying]

58 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Isn't counseling someone to commit a crime itself a criminal act?

😉

You'll never take me alive, coppers! See? Nyah!

 

[Love Zhaoying]

24 minutes ago, Soft Linden said:

I pointed it out, but you'll find a link in the Scripted Agent Policy that was blogged today. See the "Using Personal Data" link within that policy.

Of note, the Scripted Agent Policy was previously named the Bot Policy. "Scripted Agent" is a term that's inclusive of what people often call a "Bot."

Thanks for all you do, Soft!

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Isn't counseling someone to commit a crime itself a criminal act?

😉

Only in some countries

🤣

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Innula Zenovka said:

According to the LL post about it, 

• When deny_bots is ON, all scripted agents that are not explicitly listed in the estate’s Allowed Access list will be denied access to all of the regions within the Estate.

You don't need to ask the Estate Owner to give the bots Estate Manager status, just to add them to the Region's Allowed Access list.

 

Does this help @Paul Hexemin Bellisseria?

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

A lot of placed will not be able to do this, considering they use bots, (or should be registered) as models for their regions or stores. Which is obvious but... one thought I had.

 

I now see Loves post.

Edited March 31, 2023 by SpiritSparrow Skydancer

[LittleMe Jewell]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Does this help @Paul Hexemin Bellisseria?

No, because the "estate" is Bellisseria and controlled by LL.  They are the ones that would have to add his bots to an "always allow list".

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

An interesting impact of the extension of the scripted agent ban to Bellisseria is that bots will no longer be able to list vacant Linden Homes there.

Seems to me that levels the playing field when people are shopping for land in Belli. Those who don't know about such things are at a huge disadvantage. One of the many reasons I don't bother participating in a lot of things on the grid. All too often getting info or help that I need never happens, so I end up still on the outside looking in.

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

No, because the "estate" is Bellisseria and controlled by LL.  They are the ones that would have to add his bots to an "always allow list".

That's what I meant. Is LL willing to add bots on request for Belli to the allow list? Paul seems to be good people.

Edited March 31, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Paul Hexem]

6 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Paul seems to be good people.

I take great offense to that.