New Feature: Scripted Agent Estate Access Discussion

[Alwin Alcott]

42 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Or . . . they leave them in place, and renters make a decision about whether that is a condition they are willing to live with, just as they do now with regard to countless other decisions and choices made at the estate level.

with the current system it won't work with parcel levels, only regionwide is a solution.
When there is even only on parcel open, they can harvest all data on all parcels on that region, as only the visibility of avatars is hidden with the current privacy tools.

[EliseAnne85]

5 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Something like that is a great idea, assuming it comes with tangible benefits like overriding the bot ban on Linden owned land, for example. Otherwise you're just paying money to be banned.

Wouldn't there be a way to do it by them having a different name such as PIOF bot?

Edited March 31, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Silent Mistwalker]

46 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

If you're renting on a private estate, the owner needs to add your bots to the estate whitelist.   There is no per parcel whitelisting of bots.  That's what part of the debate is about.   The only people who have control per the new anti bot setting are private estate owners.

Please show me the documentation that states there is no per parcel whitelisting of bots. I haven't seen anything to indicate a bot can't be added to either an allowed or a banned list on a parcel unless it's a mainland parcel.

You should be able to enter the bot name the same as an account name... since the account name is the bot name. Again, I've seen nothing that says a bot can't be added to a parcel whitelist. 

Seriously, please show me where it says bots can't ever be added to an allowed or banned list.

[Paul Hexem]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Please show me the documentation that states there is no per parcel whitelisting of bots. I haven't seen anything to indicate a bot can't be added to either an allowed or a banned list on a parcel unless it's a mainland parcel.

You should be able to enter the bot name the same as an account name... since the account name is the bot name. Again, I've seen nothing that says a bot can't be added to a parcel whitelist. 

Seriously, please show me where it says bots can't ever be added to an allowed or banned list.

Region setting always override parcel settings. Access, maturity rating, just about everything except media.

[Silent Mistwalker]

50 minutes ago, Skyler Pancake said:

Doesn't work. The bot ban is at an estate level, which means that parcel controls can't override it. If the estate has the no bot setting active, such as Linden Home regions, there is NO WAY for an account marked as a scripted agent to enter that estate. Thus invalidating the rights of those who do own and live there.

My point is you do not have to have access to the estate tools when you have access to your parcel tools to whitelist any account be it registered agent or not. If that were the case, you'd have to ask your landlord to add someone to the estate ban list so it could be added to your parcel ban list every time you want to add or remove someone from your parcel list. It doesn't work that way.

I don't think I'm getting what I'm seeing across to people so I'm just going to bow out.

[Paul Hexem]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

My point is you do not have to have access to the estate tools when you have access to your parcel tools to whitelist any account be it registered agent or not. If that were the case, you'd have to ask your landlord to add someone to the estate ban list so it could be added to your parcel ban list every time you want to add or remove someone from your parcel list. It doesn't work that way.

I don't think I'm getting what I'm seeing across to people so I'm just going to bow out.

The point is so that you can't whitelist a griefer that the estate manager banned. Otherwise, there's no point in an estate ban list at all.

[Silent Mistwalker]

51 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

 

They didn't, though. They only gave it to region owners, and made it so it hurts everybody, not just the data collectors. 

Region owners are just as much a part of us as every other resident out there.

No, it does not hurt everyone. It has absolutely no effect on me.

[Paul Hexem]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

No, it does not hurt everyone. It has absolutely no effect on me.

I'm well fed, therefore starvation doesn't exist?

Or, should every feature in SL you don't personally use be disabled?

[Peter Stindberg]

Too little, too late. Already now we see "highspeed throwaway bots" that get registered en masse, fly under the radar for a day or two, get discarded before any compliance crackdown can get hold of them. Rinse. Repeat.

The genie is out of the bottle. The Lab could make registering new accounts harder, but that is against their own best interest.

[Sid Nagy]

38 minutes ago, Rick Nightingale said:

It might surprise someone to know I too have a product which relies on bots, that I've sold to the vehicle riding, flying and sailing community for years. One difference: My bots don't TP to parcels unasked for. In fact they have to be specifically summoned by a control HUD, by the user, when needed for a specific purpose. They don't gather anyone's data, or anything else for that matter and only land where specifically told to by the owner.

Mine too will suffer from this though, despite that they are totally benign in action. Such is life. We still should have the ability to control access to bots properly.

When sculpties and meshes were introduced it hit me and all other prim merchants in our wallets too.
Literary every change inworld or in real life affects some people for the better and some for the worse.
That's life.

Edited March 31, 2023 by Sid Nagy
It is my Saturday hobby to edit my texts. :S Also available on Fridays.

[EliseAnne85]

13 minutes ago, M Peccable said:

I am on the receiving end of that mentality. Trust me, it's real.

Well, then you over react on your end, too.  I think most people would like to have a happy medium with tools that will work for both the users of bots and those who want to have their space not invaded.  

[M Peccable]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

It has absolutely no effect on me.

You don't know that, because you don't know how many products you have that depend on a bot in order to work.

There will be much hidden damage revealed if this estate wide bot ban, in its current form, is enabled on all of mainland.

[belindacarson]

Let's not forget, LL can probably tell via how an avi logs in, the chance of it being a bot or not.  If they weren't reasonably certain, they'd not have told us the best way to file an abuse report on undeclared bots.

[Silent Mistwalker]

11 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Region setting always override parcel settings. Access, maturity rating, just about everything except media.

Not where I live but then my landlord isn't the ***** some think he is.

[M Peccable]

Just now, EliseAnne85 said:

Well, then you over react on your end, too.  I think most people would like to have a happy medium with tools that will work for both the users of bots and those who want to have their space not invaded.  

In my case at least, that very thing has been happening for well over 12 years now. It wasn't until this latest huge batch of bad bots hit the grid that got me caught up into all of this.

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

I'm well fed, therefore starvation doesn't exist?

Or, should every feature in SL you don't personally use be disabled?

Thank you for taking other people's interests into consideration!

[Silent Mistwalker]

8 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

The point is so that you can't whitelist a griefer that the estate manager banned. Otherwise, there's no point in an estate ban list at all.

Thank you. I wasn't saying a parcel whitelist would override an estate BAN list but that it may be possible to over ride the BOT feature using the whitelist. 

To my knowledge no one has actually tested this. Since I don't have any bots, I can't test for myself.

This is why I wish you hadn't already unregistered yours. You might have gotten the region owner to cooperate so that we all know for certain.

[Silent Mistwalker]

11 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

I'm well fed, therefore starvation doesn't exist?

Or, should every feature in SL you don't personally use be disabled?

You said it effects everyone. I'm not part of everyone? Gee thanks for making me feel like I'm no longer on the outside looking in.

Now that we are getting into personal attacks I'm out. Too much anger directed at me for no reason.

Edited March 31, 2023 by Silent Mistwalker

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, M Peccable said:

In my case at least, that very thing has been happening for well over 12 years now. It wasn't until this latest huge batch of bad bots hit the grid that got me caught up into all of this.

Shouldn't you be more upset with the "bad bots" then, instead of with Linden Lab or us? We mostly only care about the "bad bots". 

[Paul Hexem]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Thank you for taking other people's interests into consideration!

 

Just now, Silent Mistwalker said:

You said it effects everyone. I'm not part of everyone? Gee thanks for making me feel like I'm no longer on the outside looking in.

I thoroughly enjoy playing devil's advocate.

I also work in the security industry in RL. I've seen way too many well intentioned policies absolutely screw with good people. This is clearly one of them.

2 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

This is why I wish you hadn't already unregistered yours. You might have gotten the region owner to cooperate so that we all know for certain.

In my particular case it doesn't really matter. My region owner is LL and I'm out of the "bot" business. It just gives me enough experience to know that otherwise innocent bots are going to be affected.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

An interesting ramification of this that I'm hearing about on Twitter now is concern from scripters that the new PII rules impact on the LSL function llHTTPRequest(), making it, by definition, a violation of that new regulation.

I am going to be interested to see how this works out. There seems to be a desire for an absolutely airtight, completely precise set of guidelines for what is allowed or not allowed -- and, as anyone with any familiarity with the ToS and CS can attest -- that's just not how LL rolls.

[Love Zhaoying]

I bet ChatGPT has the answer for the conundrum we find ourselves in. Could someone please ask it, before it is banned?

[Silent Mistwalker]

10 minutes ago, M Peccable said:

You don't know that, because you don't know how many products you have that depend on a bot in order to work.

There will be much hidden damage revealed if this estate wide bot ban, in its current form, is enabled on all of mainland.

You think I don't know what products I own in SL? LOL

I know I don't own anything that requires a bot to use without a doubt. I have no use for most of that stuff. I have never had any need of a "tourguide" in SL to explore. I'm not like the majority of people in SL. I'm not in SL for the same reasons most people are.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

An interesting ramification of this that I'm hearing about on Twitter now is concern from scripters that the new PII rules impact on the LSL function llHTTPRequest(), making it, by definition, a violation of that new regulation.

I am going to be interested to see how this works out. There seems to be a desire for an absolutely airtight, completely precise set of guidelines for what is allowed or not allowed -- and, as anyone with any familiarity with the ToS and CS can attest -- that's just not how LL rolls.

Exactly, and how long before they ban HTTP Requests to ChatGPT?

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

 

I thoroughly enjoy playing devil's advocate.

I also work in the security industry in RL. I've seen way too many well intentioned policies absolutely screw with good people. This is clearly one of them.

In my particular case it doesn't really matter. My region owner is LL and I'm out of the "bot" business. It just gives me enough experience to know that otherwise innocent bots are going to be affected.

Not once have I said it would not have an effect on some people/businesses. NOT ONCE!

And yet you have one or two thinking I have said exactly that. Not cool.