I miss the Second Life of old

[EliseAnne85]

58 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Any nostalgia I feel for the "good old days" is really just my endless desire to be a newbie.

It's up to me to make that happen.

 

Most creator's have to pull ourselves back quite a lot and take a view of our creation from the eyes of a newbie, even a newbie who's a few days old.   And, then, many of us realize we need to write an instructions notecard.  And, those instructions could be quite long when looking from a newbie's perspective.  

It's also interesting to note that even though creator's take a long time writing out instruction notecards, most are not read and people just go to their friends to ask 'how do I do this' instead of reading the dang notecards.  

But, you can view SL thru a newbie's eyes but it's not really the same sense of wonderment we actually had when we were newbies.  

Also, I think Dinkies and Tinies have that sense of newbie innocence as Raglan Shire hasn't changed in approx. 19 years.  It's built pre-sculpty even.   People can visit Raglan Shire and see what SL used to be built out of.  It has original SL builds from the beginning, plus rides.  

[Phil Deakins]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Yet..all three may have contributed to Second Life's growth. 

And, Second Life did not "die" as a result from any of the three (yet).

Disagree? 

None of them contributed to SL's growth because SL hasn't grown. It's shrunk since the peak days of 80k-90k concurrency. SL certainly didn't die as a result of any of them.

I don't think that the growth or shrinkage of SL can be attributed to anything like those things. I can imagine that mesh helps to keep the numbers down, because, although everyone can still make things with prims, nobody can aspire to compete using prims, and the idea that anyone can make stuff just as good as anyone else was a huge plus for SL - imo, of course. Before mesh, SL was a world in which everyone could create the world as well as anyone else. Mesh killed that, and possibly reduced the desirability of being in SL. It's a thought

Edited April 7, 2023 by Phil Deakins

[Sid Nagy]

I went to the premium sandboxes today. I had not been in one for years...
All 8 of them almost completely empty.
Once upon a time the sandboxes where vibrant places to meet people, to see new ideas, places full of excitement and experimenting. Now they are only empty lawns.

[Alwin Alcott]

6 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Now they are only empty lawns.

mesh killed inworld creation

[Polenth Yue]

2 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

I went to the premium sandboxes today. I had not been in one for years...
All 8 of them almost completely empty.
Once upon a time the sandboxes where vibrant places to meet people, to see new ideas, places full of excitement and experimenting. Now they are only empty lawns.

I only ever met griefers at sandboxes in the good old days. If I did find one where other people were building, they had their projects and I had mine, so everyone ignored each other. It's not really a surprise that people who pay for land are going to use their land for building rather than a sandbox, because a lot of people had experiences like mine.

This reminds me of a previous thread where someone visited all their old landmarks and then declared that there was nobody inworld. That's because most of those places had either moved or closed, so the landmarks were to private land or nothing. They stood alone on empty abandoned land, rather than finding out where those locations had moved or going to a current hangout spot. In this case, you went to a premium sandbox, which is neither where premium people hang out or where newbies go to build. Then wondered why it was empty.

There comes a point where you have to admit that the reason you don't find certain things is because you've stopped participating much, rather than because there's nothing out there. Sometimes the past is better because you've given up on now. Which is your choice, but it has nothing to do with what's actually out there.

[Destiny Marques]

I often miss those days as well.

[Nalates Urriah]

It is so much easier to jump to a conclusion than figure things out.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

It is so much easier to jump to a conclusion than figure things out.

It's a great workout, but make sure to stretch your hamstrings first to prevent sports-related injuries.

[Harper Held]

On 4/7/2023 at 9:29 AM, Alwin Alcott said:

mesh killed inworld creation

I still make things in-world and I occasionally see people around me throwing prims around too.

Hell no it's not commercially viable and can't hold a candle to mesh -but "dead" is an overstatement. It's even recieving the odd upgrades from time to time (eg materials).

[PixelBerry]

I miss the old Second life days too, I can't put my finger on it, but the community in itself is so different than it used to be, I remember it being so much more popular to hang around in sandboxes and just do the randomest stuff, just in general being a sandbox kid. And people being more open to socializing and not hiding at their homes, there has always been adult stuff but now I feel like it's literally everywhere, and that is all it is about for most. A lot of it is probably nostalgia speaking, but I wish I could go back and re-experience Second life.

[Phil Deakins]

5 hours ago, Han Held said:

I still make things in-world and I occasionally see people around me throwing prims around too.

Hell no it's not commercially viable and can't hold a candle to mesh -but "dead" is an overstatement. It's even recieving the odd upgrades from time to time (eg materials).

Of course people can still create with prims, but the point is that once upon a time, all users could create things just as well as all other users, and compete commercially. All users could build the world. Mesh killed that. All users can still mess about with prims, but only a very few can compete commercially, and not with prims. That's what's meant by "mesh killed inworld creation".

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, Phil Deakins said:

Of course people can still create with prims, but the point is that once upon a time, all users could create things just as well as all other users, and compete commercially.

In other words, "There was an artificial limit on what could be built and how well it could be built."

Not to mention that anything not made from bucket-painted plain colored prims needed external access to some sort of graphics program.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Theresa Tennyson

[PixelBerry]

Thought I would just insert some nostalgic old pics of mine, from my first account for the most part, from 2008 to 2011'ish. 

 

[Phil Deakins]

38 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

In other words, "There was an artificial limit on what could be built and how well it could be built."

Prims can't do what mesh can do, especially in as few prims/li.

38 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Not to mention that anything not made from bucket-painted plain colored prims needed external access to some sort of graphics program.

If you mean for textures, not really, no. There were, and still are, untold numbers of  available textures in SL and on the web. It was never necessary to use a graphics programme. Everyone was equally enabled back then, and could compete equally with everyone else. The world was built by using what everyone had to hand, and everyone could do it. That's what mesh killed.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Phil Deakins

[Theresa Tennyson]

5 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

Prims can't do what mesh can do, especially in as few prims/li.

If you mean for textures, not really, no. There were, and still are, untold numbers of  available textures in SL and on the web. It was never necessary to use a graphics programme. Everyone was equally enabled back then, and could compete equally with everyone else. The world was built by using what everyone had to hand, and everyone could do it. That's what mesh killed.

And the textures appeared in the world magically without anyone with graphics skills having to make them, like Athena from the head of Zeus. But I know how this will end already, so I'll just leave this at, "Mmm hmmm..."

[animats]

On 4/7/2023 at 10:23 AM, Sid Nagy said:

I went to the premium sandboxes today. I had not been in one for years...
All 8 of them almost completely empty.

 The adult sandbox regions northwest of Zindra have eight people in them right now. Someone has rezzed an aircraft. They just got it going and flew off across the ocean to Zindra. Someone else has rezzed a horse. Someone is trying clothing. Someone is working on a surround for a small building or skybox. Routine sandbox activity.

If you want to see creators at work, try Builders Brewery, or Morris on the beta grid.

[Phil Deakins]

6 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

And the textures appeared in the world magically without anyone with graphics skills having to make them, like Athena from the head of Zeus. But I know how this will end already, so I'll just leave this at, "Mmm hmmm..."

Textures needed to be uploaded, of course, but no SL user needed to use a graphics programme to make them. A few did, of course, but the point being made is that all SL users could create stuff and actually compete with others commercially. Mesh killed that. I don't see any point in arguing against the obvious.

[diamond Marchant]

I think this is the golden age of Second Life and I hope to enjoy it for as long as it lasts. Am amazed that it is still here actually. Everything changes, nothing stays the same. Opinions about builders being "equally enabled" seem to miss the point. There are builders, good builders, and great builders and they differ by skill (not tools).

Edited April 10, 2023 by diamond Marchant

[Theresa Tennyson]

17 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Textures needed to be uploaded, of course, but no SL user needed to use a graphics programme to make them. A few did, of course, but the point being made is that all SL users could create stuff and actually compete with others commercially. Mesh killed that. I don't see any point in arguing against the obvious.

So, they could create things using textures made by others? Kind of like using - oh, I don't know - full perm meshes?

Mmm hmm...

[Phil Deakins]

You've totally missed the point, Theresa.

If there is a full perm mesh available for anything I want to create, then I would partially accept your argument, but there isn't.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Phil Deakins

[Harper Held]

You're saying because mesh is the current hotness prim building is dead.

That's like saying because most people drive automobiles riding horses is dead -equestrians would beg to differ, just as prim builders do.

[Cate Foulsbane]

On 3/28/2023 at 9:39 PM, EliseAnne85 said:

Dinkies and Tinies of the Shire play Bingo a few times a week.

Even I, a hulking expensive human avatar, have played bingo with tinies or at least squatted on a pad and watched when I was fortunate enough to remember when and where!  

 

[Sid Nagy]

1 hour ago, Han Held said:

You're saying because mesh is the current hotness prim building is dead.

That's like saying because most people drive automobiles riding horses is dead -equestrians would beg to differ, just as prim builders do.

In the prim era I sold thousands of doors and tintable windows. You know why? Almost everybody was building and playing with their prims. I have spend hours and hours with relatively newbies in sandboxes and at their homes explaining how to integrate those doors and windows. Building things yourself was an essential part of the SL experience.
That stopped almost over night when sculpties and meshes came around.

Nowadays if you are not an ace in mesh creating or ripping from other places, the building fun is over.
And it is only a matter of pulling your wallet and visit events, if you want something new or different.
That is the point Phil (rightfully so IMHO) is trying to make.

Building shifted from building in SL to building for SL (outside of SL) and became an exclusive part of the world for experienced Blender (and other software) users and mesh rippers.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[Cate Foulsbane]

On 3/29/2023 at 4:14 AM, Gwin LeShelle said:

We behaved online like our mamas teached us. Jump forward almost 2 decades and bam everyone is rude and jaded. 

I entered SL in early 08 and I can promise you  that plenty were rude and nasty back then, too. Remember griefers? They are still around..perhaps a bit more sophisticated, but still getting their jollies by causing trouble for others. Yes, there were a lot of good folks around...creative, artistic,, friendly, warm and cuddly. And those sorts are still around if you go to the right places and do the right things. What I have experienced is that there some who come here to explore, to escape from something in RL that is painful, restrictive, boring, whatever. Some come for sex. Some, once here, realize what an opportunity the place can be for artistic expression, for creativity, and they blossom. Some come here to "play" SL as if it is nothing but another video game. The latter, in my opinion, are usually the rudest, the most unfriendly, and the most apt to cause trouble.  In other words, yeah, things are different...but the potential for personal growth, artistic expression, and damned good fun still abounds. Pick your places and your people and things will seem a lot better..betcha!

[Phil Deakins]

1 hour ago, Han Held said:

You're saying because mesh is the current hotness prim building is dead.

That's like saying because most people drive automobiles riding horses is dead -equestrians would beg to differ, just as prim builders do.

I'm not saying that at all, or anything like it. Building with prims is still perfectly doable, but building with prims and competing equally in the market can't be done anymore.

Horses used to be the standard means of transport (not counting walking, of course). Automobiles killed that, even though, as you pointed out, horses can still be ridden for pleasure and sport.

Automobiles killed horses as the normal means of transport, and mesh killed prims as the normal building method of this world. Horses can't compete with automobiles and prims can't compete with mesh.

Your example is like chalk is to cheese

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Phil Deakins