A Positive Brainstorming / Suggestion Box Thread - Ideas for Improving Second Life Sociability, Usability and Retention

[Ayashe Ninetails]

19 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

😳

I have never in my life ever been that bored. I hope, if I ever do become that bored, I get a free ride into space.

Apparently, it's a thing on TikTok, too. I kid you not, I just now found an article discussing "Sleepfluencers" and how their intention is to combat insomnia in others.

Ya know what...I think SL is just fine as it is. We're doing pretty good, guys. Maybe just a few UI tweaks and um, let's just leave all that other stuff alone. 😳😂

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Apparently, it's a thing on TikTok, too.

I don't do TikTok either. 😂

[Sukubia Scarmon]

58 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Apparently, it's a thing on TikTok, too. I kid you not, I just now found an article discussing "Sleepfluencers" and how their intention is to combat insomnia in others.

As someone suffering from insomnia (It's currently 4:30am for me, and I have to get up at 9am to go to work. I tried to sleep for almost 4 hours now and am now eating something in the sheer desperation that THAT might make me tired enough to be able to sleep.) I'm offended at that, lol. No, they're not, they're trying to get money by doing nothing.

[Randall Ahren]

1 hour ago, Sukubia Scarmon said:

As someone suffering from insomnia (It's currently 4:30am for me, and I have to get up at 9am to go to work. I tried to sleep for almost 4 hours now and am now eating something in the sheer desperation that THAT might make me tired enough to be able to sleep.)

Try logging into SL and hanging out with a bunch of AFK avatars. That will bore you into a coma in about 20 minutes.

[Prokofy Neva]

1. Fix search on the regular viewer, which is what newbies in particular start out with, and which at least some of us oldbies use. It is seriously broken. It means, for the Lindens, losing their religion. But it must be done. Of course, the Lindens could buy out Firestorm, but then they'd lose their plausible deniability about copybot, which they don't want to lose. So they need to make their own viewer search work.

2. Place billboards and signs which can be rented in welcome areas which enable people to click and go somewhere of interest. Venue managers can place the ads; they will be motivated to create conditions for new people to stick. Again, this requires losing religion for not only Lindens but their core fan base and select partners, but given that they've all failed at retention for two decades now, maybe they will try something new. They can be PG: they can be tasteful; they can rotate and most importantly, we used to have them in 2004-2005, they worked, many of us found "things to do" and friends back them. 

3. Instead of struggling to "clean up" the Events list and policing it brutally to get rid of what amounts to thinly-disguised ads, create a separate free ad list linked to locations. That will be a mess, sure. But then events can go back to being events. Paid classifieds will still get more of the mindspace. 

4. Create a buddy system that people can sign up to receive random newbies. This isn't the Mentors, where people sling notecards full of their commerce circle's landmarks. It's not "learning to build" or going through mazes. It's being able to discern what interests a person and steer them towards possible places of interest. Residents who succeed in retaining a newbie could get some kind of perk, like various credit cards and services give you rewards if you bring in customers. I think any reward in mere Linden cash would get gamed, but maybe there's something that could be conceived that is valuable but not gameable.

5. The revised SL websites are all going in the right direction. But for God's sake, fix the Land Portal so that it doesn't turn up land that isn't for rent; perhaps search/places instead of word searches could be incorporated, now that it is working/billing again.

 

[Prokofy Neva]

On 2/14/2023 at 3:51 PM, Love Zhaoying said:

Idea: gently guide new users to Destination Guide locations so they explore, versus stand at a safe hub or get roped into a trap.

For this they need portal boards. They really do work better than having something in the viewer that people don't click on.

[Prokofy Neva]

12 hours ago, Zalificent said:

NO!

 

Pay attention. THERE IS NO OFFICIAL LIST OF "REGISTERED DESTINATIONS"!

Anyone who owns a parcel can decide for them selves if they want to add their parcel to the searchable list, or remove it from that list, at ANY time.

Even places that are searchable, there is no guarantee that the parcel name or brief description will be in any way, meaningful to outsiders.

A FAKE example: 

Name: Bad Bill's

Desc: CMNF

Now the name and the description tell you NOTHING about the place, unless you HAPPEN to know what CMNF stands for, most noobs probably won't. They are not "being prevented from finding it" by a "conspiracy of greed". They are prevented from finding the place because the search engines suck, and they are too noob & too much "outsiders" to know what to search for yet, or HOW to search for it using the bloody awful search tools.

Rather than all the tin foil hat conspiracy bunker wrong assumptions that you fill your posts with, a better option would be to simply FIX THE DAMN SEARCH ENGINE.

This is something that cries out for third-party treatment. The current, er, offering in that space only shows you the most high-traffic adult or "skilled gaming" venues with the most avatars, supposedly shorn of bots and AFKers.

But what people need is not "the most avatars" and not the nerfed, Linden-curated Destinations, although I think that's pretty good and I go on it myself and point others to it.

What is needed is resident-curated "the best" of lists, ever changing, with attention to quality, taste, stickiness. It shouldn't just be the latest overstuffed photogenic site. I have done small versions of this over the years, and still have the "real life country/languages" server which is regularly updated so that people can find those who speak their language and people can learn about other cultures.

But to do a "best of" or "most interesting" visible list at a venue inworld where people can teleport into and out of, that is a lot of work. I know from even doing a modest "top 10" billboard for some years that it's just too much work for one person or even a small group. Still, the Baedecker's or Lonely Planet of SL needs to be done. And yes, it has to include adult venues.

 

[Candide LeMay]

If we have a resident curated list of interesting places it needs to be kept up to date. That could be an opportunity for new avatars to explore the grid and earn some money (although I would not restrict it to only new avatars) - verify if these 5 places in the list are still current, update the listings with a fresh snapshot and get 10L.

Who will finance this? LL certainly won't, but we could crowdfund this ourselves. If there are say 1000 places to check, weekly, that would require only 8000L for the rewards each month. I'd be happy to donate few hundred L into the pot regularly for this to happen. With few dozens donors this could be a viable thing with a positive effect.

[benchthis]

5 hours ago, Candide LeMay said:

If we have a resident curated list of interesting places it needs to be kept up to date. That could be an opportunity for new avatars to explore the grid and earn some money (although I would not restrict it to only new avatars) - verify if these 5 places in the list are still current, update the listings with a fresh snapshot and get 10L.

Who will finance this? LL certainly won't, but we could crowdfund this ourselves. If there are say 1000 places to check, weekly, that would require only 8000L for the rewards each month. I'd be happy to donate few hundred L into the pot regularly for this to happen. With few dozens donors this could be a viable thing with a positive effect.

It would not cost anything because it kind of already exists. I'd recommend moving the "suggest a destination" option to the top of the list vs the bottom. (please see attached image)

https://secondlife.com/destinations?_gl=1*bplpj1*_ga*MjA1Nzg5MzcwOS4xNjc2NTYxMTQ3*_ga_T7G7P6DCEC*MTY3NjU2MTE0Ni4xLjEuMTY3NjU2MTYyNC42MC4wLjA.*_fplc*QmJrNWJ0MFg4S2JNd3REZjVaaUpkSkZNYkZCa3lWRFl5OG5pNUdDc2ZHdzJadHk5VnI3RWVBd1FrSnRDRXFqMHVMUlp0ZVQ4c1pYMmlHOUJpOWxMRXhwVG80TUZMTSUyQm9ORyUyQjVZdXdRdlJIUTIlMkJjcGFodlQzJTJCZzRqd21YT1ElM0QlM0Q.

I'd take it a step further and allow users to add their landmarks to their destinations list, so they are more organized. But have a way to keep them private. 

I've never used the suggest a destination before, I would hope that when suggesting a destination a ticket would be auto generated and placed in my dashboard. This way I can monitor the progress and easily follow up. 

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by benchthis

[Rowan Amore]

6 minutes ago, benchthis said:

I'd take it a step further and allow users to add their landmarks to their destinations list, so they are more organized. But have a way to keep them private. 

There is a folder in Firestorm (no idea if the LL viewer has this) where you can put your Favorite destinations (LMs).  I know you can use the top whatever it is but I got rid of most of the toolbars at the top to clean up my UI.  When I hit Alt H, along with teleport history it also shows my Favorites folder LMs.  This feature I use on a daily basis.

[benchthis]

One more thing I like about the directory style destination guide, it has information about the destinations, including maturity ratings. 

Edit: At the bottom of the list is adults only destinations which is fine. When I browse different categories there are A ratings, that could be confusing for new users because they would not know that some region owners place the A for Adult, even there this is not adult content. They set it this way maybe to have no restrictions or increased presence in search results. Maybe introduction to a new rating catagory U Unrated? Just because a destination is rated A does not mean we can show up in our birthday suits. That's a little problem that needs to be looked into. Possible solution suggestion.  

Or the rating process needs to be a little stricter. I'm pretty sure i'm not allowed to show up naked and golf at that place rated A. Should it be M? Since it's rated A why isn't it with the Adult content? What's the difference? The difference needs to be brainstormed and updated. 

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by benchthis

[Love Zhaoying]

27 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

There is a folder in Firestorm (no idea if the LL viewer has this) where you can put your Favorite destinations (LMs).  I know you can use the top whatever it is but I got rid of most of the toolbars at the top to clean up my UI.  When I hit Alt H, along with teleport history it also shows my Favorites folder LMs.  This feature I use on a daily basis.

Suggestion: Have a similar feature standard in the official viewer.

[benchthis]

 

Regarding more tweaks to the destination guide directory I recommend expanding the number of destinations per page from 10 per page (is annoying clicking page numbers) to 100 per page as default with show all pages or default show all pages would be most efficient for flipping/searching. (please see attached image).

 

[Rowan Amore]

To my point about the Destination guide IN the viewers is, you can access it in a number of ways.  Using the Destinations toolbar button gives one view of the destinations while using the Search toolbar button will give you the same access as the one shown on the website which is more expansive from the start...

Opening Search from toolbar button...Note the Destination Guide highlighted in the lower section...

Clicking that link opens the large Destination guide...

 

Both pictures are from the Viewer.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Rowan Amore

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Both pictures are from the Viewer.

Suggestion: We should trust browser windows that open up inside the Viewer.  Not sure how LL can help us with that, except a one-time popup.

Maybe a one-time "Warning" with a "don't show again checkbox" like, "Second Life uses a Browser window to show you Search Results and other information.  Make sure you use normal security precautions if you visit any websites outside of Second Life."

[benchthis]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

To my point about the Destination guide IN the viewers is, you can access it in a number of ways.  Using the Destinations toolbar button gives one view of the destinations while using the Search toolbar button will give you the same access as the one shown on the website which is more expansive from the start...

Opening Search from toolbar button...Note the Destination Guide highlighted in the lower section...

Clicking that link opens the large Destination guide...

Thanks that's a easy way to get to the destination directory, thanks. I always had to go to the blog and search for Strawberry Linden's blog posts with links to it.  I have the worst memory, I hope I can remember that next time I need to find the directory. I never use search. 

The destination directory needs to be updated, as organized as it looks, i'm not seeing sandboxes or building? Homes and building is together with minimal building resources?  Not sure if that was supposed to be homes and buildings? instead of homes and building. More towards premade buildings?? For that to be under home and garden? 

Personally I would not place building under "home and garden"/"home and building" because building should be with the B's in it's own top category w just few examples Building/Sandboxes/Ivory Tower Library of Primitives Building/Sandboxes/Builders Brewery. 

 

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

46 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Suggestion: We should trust browser windows that open up inside the Viewer.  Not sure how LL can help us with that, except a one-time popup.

Maybe a one-time "Warning" with a "don't show again checkbox" like, "Second Life uses a Browser window to show you Search Results and other information.  Make sure you use normal security precautions if you visit any websites outside of Second Life."

We can already choose between using an inworld browser and an external browser. The feature was in the official client in 2005 and I'm pretty sure it was there in 2004 so I'm not sure where you are trying to go with this.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

10 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

We can already choose between using an inworld browser and an external browser. The feature was in the official client in 2005 and I'm pretty sure it was there in 2004 so I'm not sure where you are trying to go with this.

..not what I meant.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Love Zhaoying
Yee-haw!!!

[Silent Mistwalker]

9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

..not what I meant.

You're not going to bother to explain it?

I just love how people always leave me hanging like this.

And they wonder why I cop an attitude.

[EliseAnne85]

14 hours ago, Sukubia Scarmon said:

As someone suffering from insomnia (It's currently 4:30am for me, and I have to get up at 9am to go to work. I tried to sleep for almost 4 hours now and am now eating something in the sheer desperation that THAT might make me tired enough to be able to sleep.) I'm offended at that, lol. No, they're not, they're trying to get money by doing nothing.

I have trouble sleeping sometimes too.  Have you ever tried relaxtion sleep music for insomnia which there are many too choose from on YouTube.  I feel asleep listening to one last night and slept like a log.  

Here's an example:

 

[Love Zhaoying]

7 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

I have trouble sleeping sometimes too.  Have you ever tried relaxtion sleep music for insomnia which there are many too choose from on YouTube.  I feel asleep listening to one last night and slept like a log.  

Here's an example:

 

I think for those with trouble sleeping, there are probably an uncountable (meaning: big) number of SL destinations with nice, soothing "environmental" sounds.

[Caeruleiae]

On 2/15/2023 at 12:44 PM, Nalates Urriah said:

There is this idea that all things should be give to one by others. Everything has to be easy, free, and effortless. I know the current conditioning directs people into that thinking. But it isn't realistic

Where the heck are you even going with this? Where did I say that having more things to do in sl should be free effortless and easy? You jump to too many conclusions, way too many.  It IS realistic that a virtual world, like sl, will have things to do. Having more things to do, is not a negative thing, at all.

On 2/15/2023 at 12:44 PM, Nalates Urriah said:

Those that do for their selves quickly find their way around SL and into interesting places. Simply by logging into one's dashboard there is all kinds of help. Exploring the SL websites provides days of reading. Unfortunately there is so much in SL it takes considerable effort to become aware of what is here. Where in the viewer will al that information fit?

Where did I even mention the viewer at all? Did you actually read the post I commented on, or my actual post, at all? Because your comment has nothing to do with it.

No, people do not simply log in and find their way around easy, even those that do for their selves, what a stupid thing to say. It's been way too long since you were new. It hasn't been that long since I was. I know how hard it can be to find information and find things to do, clearly you don't because you know where it all is already. I talk to new people, all the time. I understand their frustrations. We see people come here and ask what there is to do. We see people inworld with the same question.  I had to search, outside of sl, even outside of the sl website, to find most of the things I know. That still has nothing at all to do with the post I commented on, and my post. Both of them were talking about THINGS TO DO IN SL, not instructions on how to find them, but actual things to do. 

I'm starting to understand why some new people get frustrated with the forums.

This is a positive thread, about positive things to do to help improve people's days in sl, about things we can do, things maybe ll can do. I LIKE love's idea of having more things to do and how it can positively affect the whole grid. More things to do is a good way to retain people, it just is. 

[Caeruleiae]

On 2/15/2023 at 12:58 PM, Nalates Urriah said:

How do you know what is "fit" and whether that is working for new people?

Ask people that are new, it's not that difficult. Maybe if people who have been here forever stop speaking for people who are new, because they don't actually know the new user experience, it would be easier. 

[Caeruleiae]

23 hours ago, animats said:

Amusing thought: grass that you have to mow. Then SL could have Lawnmower Simulator (yes, there is such a game.)

Actually, I really like this. I don't have land, but if I did, stuff like this, which gives something to do, would be fun. I like things like this. Especially if it was just something like a one time purchase, or even better, something we get free in our library. That's something ll could add to the library, interactive things like gardens, grass, and stuff that we have to tend to. It wouldn't cut into the profits of the farming game type things, because it doesn't have to be something with some kind of secondary market. It's just something fun to do.

Stuff to do is a lot of fun, and not all things to do have to also contribute to socializing, although it could. 

I would love to have a garden to tend, grass to mow, animals to look after, that didn't cost me anything other than the land, assuming I ever get land, ha. 

I also like the added part about it being part of an estate too, that could help improve some of the rp type towns too, a good way to increase popularity of them. If they had this, I would so get myself a job-fake or not-as someone who would mow people's lawns or tend their gardens. I love stuff like this. Good suggestion!

[animats]

16 minutes ago, Caeruleiae said:

Where did I say that having more things to do in sl should be free effortless and easy?

Expecting new users to "embrace the suck" limits the market of Second Life. This is entertainment, not the military.

Useful reading: "The Gamer's Brain", by Celia Hodent. She's the neuroscientist who made Fortnite's user experience a huge success. She writes about what you can, and can't, expect users to do and go through.