J.P. Morgan investing in Tilia.

[Modulated]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

The one thing they will know who is processing out large amounts of cash.  It would be fairly easy for them to then, see what store is.connected to that account and what that store sells.   What individuals buy isn't important but what type of product IS selling would be.

Its been done since around 2014/2015, they had a rule change for cash outs at around that time-ish. If you hit the threshold, LL and the IRS wants your info.  And now the threshold is much lower for US citizens, around 600 USD. 

[Rowan Amore]

7 minutes ago, Modulated said:

Its been done since around 2014/2015, they had a rule change for cash outs at around that time-ish. If you hit the threshold, LL and the IRS wants your info.  And now the threshold is much lower for US citizens, around 600 USD. 

Exactly.  I was referring to the post about them knowing what we buy individually which they really have no need to know when simply seeing which stores/creators cash out the most will give them a better (and easier) view.  

That I buy more of this item over that item IN SL, wouldn't really make.much difference in marketing to me in RL.  

[EliseAnne85]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The bank wouldn't, but they also have their fingers in many other pies then just Tila and if they are looking to get more involved with various Metaverses, then you can bet that the information on what sort of content is of interest to virtual lifer's, could be worth quite a bit to other potential clients. That is just one angle where there would be an interest in the data that S/L and Tila would have on us.

Wouldn't JPM be more interested in what currencies are popular rather what color of shoes is selling the best?  I'd think, if say, we could cash out (exchange) our Lindens for say Mana (Decentraland's token), or Bitcoin, or the Euro for some examples...if there was a sudden rush into the Euro, Mana or Bitcoin or even the Linden, isn't that the information a broker/bank would be interested in?  

And, yes, I believe they are considering offering Bitcoin as one of the pay-out currencies they are considering expanding to because the blog uses the words "store of value".  That is the term used all over the media to describe what Bitcoin is - a store of value.  I'd rather not comment on my personal opinion of Bitcoin, as it's not very favorable and not something I would invest in.  But, if this new company offers pay-out to new currencies and someone wanted to invest part of their Lindens into Bitcoin or the Euro or whatever that is their personal choice but I'd think it's the info a bank would be interested in, not colors of shoes.  Large orders of certain currencies and them to be interested in that info is just a given.  

Edited October 21, 2022 by EliseAnne85

[Charlotte Bartlett]

On 10/20/2022 at 11:57 AM, Prokofy Neva said:

 

I don't know why everyone is rushing to assume that what this means is that we can skip Paypal when cashing out. Says who? Is that to their advantage? How will this be achieved? As an ACH payment? As a wire transfer? What FEES will be introduced?

 

 

Their aim is to provide (and their website has been updated to include)

TiliaPay

Pay out wallet values to users and creators as real money

Several payout currencies

Direct deposit to bank accounts

My original post notes information and fee structures they need to complete with.    JPM payments will give them the ability to automate cash out processing via the ACH system. 

[animats]

1 hour ago, Charlotte Bartlett said:

(and their website has been updated to include)

Uh oh. Added in the new privacy policy:

We will not share your personal information with any third party except in limited circumstances and where permitted by applicable law, including: ...

• With our business partners that we perform joint campaigns with;
• With our business partners that may include partners in our ad network (see section “Your Controls, Rights and Choices” for more information on these partners);

You can opt out by emailing "privacy@tilia.io".

Edited October 22, 2022 by animats

[animats]

1 hour ago, Charlotte Bartlett said:

Their aim is to provide (and their website has been updated to include)

TiliaPay

Pay out wallet values to users and creators as real money

Several payout currencies

Direct deposit to bank accounts

Not yet, though. Down in the documentation pages, it says PayPal only.

Overall, the new documentation shows Tilia moving to work more like a banking service. The Know Your Customer system is clearer, and there's a service level agreement on processing times. It's supposed to be possible to have more than one "wallet" associated with an "account", but that doesn't seem to be in the API yet. That's going to be useful for business users, who will be able to separate their personal and business funds.

[Arielle Popstar]

37 minutes ago, animats said:

Uh oh. Added in the new privacy policy:

We will not share your personal information with any third party except in limited circumstances and where permitted by applicable law, including: ...

• With our business partners that we perform joint campaigns with;
• With our business partners that may include partners in our ad network (see section “Your Controls, Rights and Choices” for more information on these partners);

You can opt out by emailing "privacy@tilia.io".

Yes no surprise, the "yeah but" clause. 

[Coffee Pancake]

4 minutes ago, animats said:

We will not share your personal information with any third party except in limited circumstances and where permitted by applicable law, including: ...

• With our business partners that we perform joint campaigns with;
• With our business partners that may include partners in our ad network (see section “Your Controls, Rights and Choices” for more information on these partners);

You can opt out by emailing "privacy@tilia.io".

So .. they will share everything with anyone they are legally permitted to .. and you can opt out by writing them a nice letter.

This isn't really much different from saying 

I will not eat or spend money at McBurger except in limited circumstances and where permitted by applicable law, including: ...

• I'm hungry.
• There is a McBurger right there.

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

Yes no surprise, the "yeah but" clause. 

Last time I checked, Grumpity also stated that if JPM wanted info from LL they would need a lawyer's note documenting what they need. So when they say business partners, they mean Tillia, not Linden Lab. 

[Arielle Popstar]

3 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Last time I checked, Grumpity also stated that if JPM wanted info from LL they would need a lawyer's note documenting what they need. So when they say business partners, they mean Tillia, not Linden Lab. 

It was how she said it that made the new privacy policy little surprise. That lawyer note was likely included within the investment and a condition of it.

[Love Zhaoying]

Ad Revenue! Yay!

Where do we opt in for our cut?

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

It was how she said it that made the new privacy policy little surprise. That lawyer note was likely included within the investment and a condition of it.

But I mean it is kinda obvious LL and Tillia are two separate entities. 

 

[Arielle Popstar]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

Ad Revenue! Yay!

Where do we opt in for our cut?

We are the Ad, not the revenue.

[Arielle Popstar]

6 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

But I mean it is kinda obvious LL and Tillia are two separate entities. 

 

Whatever, bottom line is, we got sold out. Hello SecondLife Facebook!

[Sammy Huntsman]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Whatever, bottom line is, we got sold out. Hello SecondLife Facebook!

We didn't get sold out. Please try to settle down on the misinformation and doom and gloom. I know change is rough. But there is no need to act like the sky is falling. It was an investment, not an acquisition. 

[Love Zhaoying]

17 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

We are the Ad, not the revenue.

Yay! I iz commodity for once, instead of commode!

[Love Zhaoying]

7 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

We didn't get sold out. Please try to settle down on the misinformation and doom and gloom. I know change is rough. But there is no need to act like the sky is falling. It was an investment, not an acquisition. 

Tinfoil hat sales are going to go through the roof! I mean, really big hats that poke through your Bellisseria roof!

 

[Arielle Popstar]

4 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

We didn't get sold out. Please try to settle down on the misinformation and doom and gloom. I know change is rough. But there is no need to act like the sky is falling. It was an investment, not an acquisition. 

The investment is in you as they are in effect acquiring your data. That is what it means when they give you the ability to opt out by emailing "privacy@tilia.io". 

[Innula Zenovka]

33 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

So .. they will share everything with anyone they are legally permitted to .. and you can opt out by writing them a nice letter.

This isn't really much different from saying 

I will not eat or spend money at McBurger except in limited circumstances and where permitted by applicable law, including: ...

• I'm hungry.
• There is a McBurger right there.

So the question is, what information are financial services institutions in the US legally permitted to share, with whom and under what circumstances?   Presumably Tilia are governed by US federal and state financial privacy laws.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Innula Zenovka

[Arielle Popstar]

6 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

So the question is, what information are financial services institutions in the US legally permitted to share, with whom and under what circumstances?   Presumably Tilia are governed by US federal and state financial privacy laws.

Stabbing a little in the dark here but I would venture at least to the degree that Facebook and Google does.

[Sammy Huntsman]

15 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The investment is in you as they are in effect acquiring your data. That is what it means when they give you the ability to opt out by emailing "privacy@tilia.io". 

Yes, that has to do with your Data in Tilia. So that would be your credit card info, your name, and your address. All your data in the LL servers won't be touched. I mean you can opt-out if you want. But Tillia and LL are on two totally different servers. Lol. 

[Nika Talaj]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

It was how she said it that made the new privacy policy little surprise. That lawyer note was likely included within the investment and a condition of it.

Grumpity was clearly a little startled by the question, and I believe that she was referring to the simple fact that privacy laws are complex, and not being a lawyer herself, she was not prepared to answer in detail.  It's not an area where any sane person would want to take a chance of saying something wrong.

Personally, I can't see a reason why Grumpity or Patch would be familiar with the fine print of JPM's investment.  Perhaps you should email Tilia and get an answer from them.

47 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Stabbing a little in the dark here but I would venture at least to the degree that Facebook and Google does.

Are you implying that the privacy laws governing Facebook and Google are similar to those governing companies holding international money transmitter licenses?  That's amusing.  Did you LOOK at the link Innula posted?

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Whatever, bottom line is, we got sold out. Hello SecondLife Facebook!

Er, no.  Tilia's USA GLBA compliance statement is straightforward.  It states unambiguously that Tilia will not be sharing any customer's personal information with any affiliates (including LL) or non-affiliates (basically, any other corporate entity) for either marketing purposes or creditworthiness evaluation.

Tilia's documentation also deals with European privacy requirements, but they are too onerous for me to wade through.

[Innula Zenovka]

23 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:

Grumpity was clearly a little startled by the question, and I believe that she was referring to the simple fact that privacy laws are complex, and not being a lawyer herself, she was not prepared to answer in detail.  It's not an area where any sane person would want to take a chance of saying something wrong

That' was how I understood it, too -- I'm pretty sure neither Grumpity nor Patch would, as senior officers of the company speaking on an official company platform, want to make any detailed statement on the subject without running it past LL's legal department first.    

[Prokofy Neva]

4 hours ago, Charlotte Bartlett said:

Their aim is to provide (and their website has been updated to include)

TiliaPay

Pay out wallet values to users and creators as real money

Several payout currencies

Direct deposit to bank accounts

My original post notes information and fee structures they need to complete with.    JPM payments will give them the ability to automate cash out processing via the ACH system. 

That would be great. Especially because Paypal is going to force people to have 1099s now. I don't mind that, altho I wonder what I will do with double 1099s. I wonder why this isn't stated explicitly in LL's announcement.

[Sammy Huntsman]

3 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

That' was how I understood it, too -- I'm pretty sure neither Grumpity nor Patch would, as senior officers of the company speaking on an official company platform, want to make any detailed statement on the subject without running it past LL's legal department first.    

But even then, LL and Tillia are two separate entities. Meaning someone from LL may not know much about the innerworkings of TIllia and someone from Tillia may not know the innerworkings from LL.