At the risk of getting in trouble…

[Coffee Pancake]

 

Oh well that's all ok and fine then .. it's not exactly what it looks like, it's not a duck, doesn't walk like a duck, quack like duck, dress up like duck, wave pro duck flags and gestures and excessively make use of duck culture.

NOT A DUCK AT ALL

 

[Pixie Kobichenko]

17 minutes ago, Waterfall Farshore said:

This thread understandably introduces a question that we are more than happy to clear up but also begins to make assumptions about our brand and our customers that are harmful and untrue. We have and want nothing to do with any extremists side and anyone who causes harm to other people. In 2022, I would expect people to be more educated before making assumptions, especially when you haven't contacted the brand in question on such a topic you brought to the forums. The CIA and DEA often combined the two (tropical shirts & ballistic vests) during the narcos days which is where our inspiration comes from, not to mention the cops in Miami at this time who also sported a similar look back in the day. At the core of our brand, we support armed forces and law enforcement, not crazy folks who hurt others, that's not how we think or operate. We also don't support Antifa either, yet we make all-black outfits. At heart, we love tactical gear and all things that are involved such as CIA, DEA, and special forces rp. We also love parody, hence our name so we try not to take our segment in tactical gear, police rp, etc too seriously. I hope I cleared this up and I have to say the customers I do know who support me month to month are great people at heart and love to roleplay many different groups who do our communities in real life an incredible service. I've always supported them as in my mind its a way to pay homage. They deserve better than to be grouped into any extremist category on any side, nor do we intend on them being grouped into such groups. At the end of the day you're welcome to have opinions and beliefs but please don't make harmful comments about people or brands you don't know. 

 

Please, reach out before making assumptions in the future.

 

Best,

Waterfall Farshore // Wazzer Works

Had I approached this company directly & if I were given this reply, I would not be swayed from believing these items are nods to the real life instances I provided.  The MSLGA flag has a disclaimer that it’s a parody.  Clearly I am not the first passerby to question items in the shop. 

I did not ever disparage the individuals behind the label.  I played devils advocate at one point, by bringing up Agent Orange.  Such that maybe the creator is ignorant of the connotation behind the item.  But that’s not the only item.  

[Solo Alpha]

11 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

NOT A DUCK AT ALL

Well .. if true then no dog whistles are supposed to be heard , but instead ... 

[Waterfall Farshore]

4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Thanks for this.

I'll note that you were contacted -- or you wouldn't be here now?

You do not address the other items in your catalogue that seem to problematize your claim -- military style gloves that display the white supremacist "Ok" gesture, and the "Make Second Life Great" banners that you semi-apologize for, but continue to sell - - but possibly you haven't read the entire thread, and aren't aware these were also discussed by way of providing further context for the sale items.

I personally don't find your disclaimer very credible, but that's fine -- I'm just one potential customer. I'm glad that you've had the opportunity to post here and lay out your own case. Others will make their own determinations.

Might I suggest, however, that you might really prove your point by removing that one particular item from sale? Or even issue a disclaimer?

PS. How lovely for you that this provided you an opportunity to display your logo in extra large size on the SL forums! That is ordinarily not permitted: I have to put notices of my art shows in my signature.

Hi Scylla. We enjoy parody, as I said so if you're trying to connect dots to make a point it's going a bit far. I only just today got an IM that this thread was a thing. No one reached out prior that they were going to start this.

I will try to address your question, even though I think you're trying to make a point instead. As mentioned, we sell tactical gear, outdoor apparel and accessories. That is what we enjoy doing, and we have a great customer base who loves to roleplay in different genres, I have never heard of a single one of my customers roleplaying an extremist group. Personally, I'm a fan of Magnum P.I and Hawaii five O along with shows like Jack Ryan, Narcos and also Terminal List. I draw inspiration from these often. I'm not going to try to convince you to like me but at least I can share a little about me which drives what I do. You must know more about white supremacists than myself to be honest, I've never come across anyone linking them and the "okay" hand sign before but I may be uneducated. To sum things up, I'm not here to promote any sort of crazy group of irrational people, if I do make something related to politics its out of parody. I think we all need to laugh a bit more in this world and maybe consider holding back on some assumptions about someone or some brand you don't quite know. This will likely be my last comment on this thread as I'd love to enjoy my weekend and I'm sure you would all as well. Have a great weekend and stay safe everyone.

 

Best,

Waterfall Farshore // Wazzer Works

[Pixie Kobichenko]

4 minutes ago, Waterfall Farshore said:

You must know more about white supremacists than myself to be honest, I've never come across anyone linking them and the "okay" hand sign before but I may be uneducated

& since you’ve gone with “I’m ignorant on that of which you speak”- all you have to do is google if you’d care to enlighten yourself.  https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/09/18/ok-sign-white-power-symbol-or-just-right-wing-troll

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Waterfall Farshore said:

You must know more about white supremacists than myself to be honest, I've never come across anyone linking them and the "okay" hand sign before but I may be uneducated. To sum things up, I'm not here to promote any sort of crazy group of irrational people, if I do make something related to politics its out of parody. I think we all need to laugh a bit more ....

That's the problem though.

White supremacy and the trappings thereof is never funny or ironic.

You're not selling mockery, you're selling something that very much represents the darker side of contemporary militant politics.

There are only 2 customers for Hawaiian shirts with body vests and "ok" tac gloves. The ignorant and sympathizers of a militant organization openly seeking a race war.

This is not subtle.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

17 minutes ago, Waterfall Farshore said:

Hi Scylla. We enjoy parody, as I said so if you're trying to connect dots to make a point it's going a bit far. I only just today got an IM that this thread was a thing. No one reached out prior that they were going to start this.

I will try to address your question, even though I think you're trying to make a point instead. As mentioned, we sell tactical gear, outdoor apparel and accessories. That is what we enjoy doing, and we have a great customer base who loves to roleplay in different genres, I have never heard of a single one of my customers roleplaying an extremist group. Personally, I'm a fan of Magnum P.I and Hawaii five O along with shows like Jack Ryan, Narcos and also Terminal List. I draw inspiration from these often. I'm not going to try to convince you to like me but at least I can share a little about me which drives what I do. You must know more about white supremacists than myself to be honest, I've never come across anyone linking them and the "okay" hand sign before but I may be uneducated. To sum things up, I'm not here to promote any sort of crazy group of irrational people, if I do make something related to politics its out of parody. I think we all need to laugh a bit more in this world and maybe consider holding back on some assumptions about someone or some brand you don't quite know. This will likely be my last comment on this thread as I'd love to enjoy my weekend and I'm sure you would all as well. Have a great weekend and stay safe everyone.

 

Best,

Waterfall Farshore // Wazzer Works

Again, thank you for the response, which is civil and informative, if not (to my mind) entirely convincing.

I'm not going to guess at your motivations, nor try to make insinuations about your character. I don't have enough information.

I will say, again, that I'm not the only one "connecting dots" here, and that, even if you are really not aware of the connotations of things like Hawaiian shirts and tactical vests, or "Ok" signs (why would you choose that particular gesture?), others are, and they will read these items have we have read them. And that includes, perhaps especially, those who identify with extremist militia groups.

In other words, whatever your intentions, you are making yourself at least potentially complicit with those likely to wish to represent a racist group that endorses and employs violence.

Nor, to repeat what Coffee said above, does "humour" seem a very appropriate response to what these people represent. Additionally, the "joke" is not exactly obvious.

So, I'm going to once again suggest that, if you really want to prove your point, you might remove these items from your catalogue, or at the least have them accompanied, in adverts or whatever, with a strongly worded disclaimer.

And I hope you too have an enjoyable weekend.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Scylla Rhiadra
Because garbled

[Kiera Clutterbuck]

16 minutes ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

The MSLGA flag

I googled this but can't find any information. Can you tell me what the letters stand for?

[Pixie Kobichenko]

2 minutes ago, Kiera Clutterbuck said:

I googled this but can't find any information. Can you tell me what the letters stand for?

It’s a parody of the MAGA flag in said shop.  “Make Second Life Great Again.”  

[Solo Alpha]

5 minutes ago, Kiera Clutterbuck said:

I googled this but can't find any information. Can you tell me what the letters stand for?

It' s a  copy of the Trumpism MAGA.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Solo Alpha

[Ceka Cianci]

3 minutes ago, Kiera Clutterbuck said:

I googled this but can't find any information. Can you tell me what the letters stand for?

I found something, I think..

Is it, Make studying language great again?

I had to take the flag part off the search term and just go with the letters.. that led to a twitter picture page that showed what looked like a home made  sign that looked like it was in a school..

That's the only thing I could find, well other than some Majestic stone company that had letters close to that.. hehehe

[Ayashe Ninetails]

1 minute ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I found something, I think..

Is it, Make studying language great again?

I had to take the flag part off the search term and just go with the letters.. that led to a twitter picture page that showed what looked like a home made  sign that looked like it was in a school..

That's the only thing I could find, well other than some Majestic stone company that had letters close to that.. hehehe

Scylla linked the banners on page 1 of the thread.

[Ceka Cianci]

1 minute ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Scylla linked the banners on page 1 of the thread.

This is why I hate when everything gets abbreviated or put to acronyms!! \o/

 

[TimKoul]

It's always the people who blast others for judging who are super judgmental themselves. Maybe if people stopped connecting imaginary dots, society would actually evolve past ignorance and stupidity. 

There's a lot of bullies spitting some serious nonsense in this thread. The creator doesn't have to do anything. Non of you know why he created those things, it's all based on assumptions and whatever "imaginary dots" you all connect in your heads. The creator didn't even need to come in and explain themselves yet they did and still get attacked. It's unreal. 

Don't buy from them if you don't like it. Simple. Better yet, maybe try talking to them first before creating such a useless thread to attack someone's work and character. 

[Solo Alpha]

@Waterfall Farshore : I do not expect you to disclose, but would you be so kind to reveal to this thread how many copies you actually sell of these items ? And perhaps if you sold less or more because of this thread ? 

No obligation at all, just my curiosity speaking here. 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Solo Alpha

[Pixie Kobichenko]

Just now, Solo Alpha said:

@Waterfall Farshore : I do not expect you to disclose, but would you be so kind to reveal to this thread how many copies you actually sell of these items ? And perhaps if you sold less or more because of this thread ? 

Not obligation, just my curiosity speaking here. 

& how do you propose that be determined?  
I know where you’re trying to go, only thing is, I’ve not presented anything untrue.

[Waterfall Farshore]

1 minute ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

& since you’ve gone with “I’m ignorant on that of which you speak”- all you have to do is google if you’d care to enlighten yourself.  https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/09/18/ok-sign-white-power-symbol-or-just-right-wing-troll

Last reply, I promise. As I said with the other comment. I don't think you're really asking, just trying to make a point. You don't know me and I don't know you but I wouldn't make an assumption that you are an extremist because you know all of these signs and symbols. I think you have a lot of time on your hands and maybe are more interested in that who arena more than myself haha. I really don't give any of that whole stuff any time of day. I think if you had time to get to know me, you'd think differently before posting all this. Please be respectful is all I ask and give people the benefit of the doubt before assuming things and opening up a can of pixel worms. 

Best,

Waterfall Farshore // Wazzer Works 

[Kiera Clutterbuck]

4 minutes ago, TimKoul said:

Maybe if people stopped connecting imaginary dots, society would actually evolve past ignorance and stupidity. 

it's all based on assumptions and whatever "imaginary dots" you all connect in your heads.

How do you know you are not connecting imaginary dots to come up with this theory that we are connecting imaginary dots though?

Serious question, and not trying to insult you.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The video evidence may simply point out that the FBI was not involved and it was handled on a local level. 

Wait..you quote the FBI director in support of your argument then "but it may not be the FBI.."?

I need to check my "Second Life Whiplash Thread-Safe Insurance" policy!

[Waterfall Farshore]

21 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

That's the problem though.

White supremacy and the trappings thereof is never funny or ironic.

You're not selling mockery, you're selling something that very much represents the darker side of contemporary militant politics.

There are only 2 customers for Hawaiian shirts with body vests and "ok" tac gloves. The ignorant and sympathizers of a militant organization openly seeking a race war.

This is not subtle.

That wasn't the parody we were referring to.

[Solo Alpha]

1 minute ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

& how do you propose that be determined?  
I know where you’re trying to go, only thing is, I’ve not presented anything untrue.

I'm not disputing your findings. I'm only curious about cold hard numbers. Nothing more. He can either tell me or he is just as free to tell me it's none of my business and solely his. 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

One thing they could do, and it's something I've been advocating for since 2009, is expand the ratings system (G/M/A) to include a separate category for violence. Such a category would include articles of apparel or props that are associated with violence, including guns, military uniforms, tactical outfits, etc.

And it would be "non-political": there'd be no reason to complain that LL was singling out right wing culture.

Considering that there's a "V" rating in games, movie, TV..great idea!

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

As useful as the information on the semi-mythical Antifa is, can I again point out that this a deflection, another example of "what-aboutism"?

Yes, they'd rather change the subject than talk about the actual subject. 
Brilliant!

[Pixie Kobichenko]

Just now, Waterfall Farshore said:

Last reply, I promise. As I said with the other comment. I don't think you're really asking, just trying to make a point. You don't know me and I don't know you but I wouldn't make an assumption that you are an extremist because you know all of these signs and symbols. I think you have a lot of time on your hands and maybe are more interested in that who arena more than myself haha. I really don't give any of that whole stuff any time of day. I think if you had time to get to know me, you'd think differently before posting all this. Please be respectful is all I ask and give people the benefit of the doubt before assuming things and opening up a can of pixel worms. 

Best,

Waterfall Farshore // Wazzer Works

1 minute ago, Waterfall Farshore said:

Last reply, I promise. As I said with the other comment. I don't think you're really asking, just trying to make a point. You don't know me and I don't know you but I wouldn't make an assumption that you are an extremist because you know all of these signs and symbols. I think you have a lot of time on your hands and maybe are more interested in that who arena more than myself haha. I really don't give any of that whole stuff any time of day. I think if you had time to get to know me, you'd think differently before posting all this. Please be respectful is all I ask and give people the benefit of the doubt before assuming things and opening up a can of pixel worms. 

Best,

Waterfall Farshore // Wazzer Works 

“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance” MLK jr. 
 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

Oof. That's all I've got. Just oof. 😳