NUX Avatar

[KathrynLisbeth]

5 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:

 I would have thought that LL would want the NUX bodies to last a newbie for more than a week or so, no? 

🙄

Well I figure they want to have new users buying the Full Feature Bodies and Heads.    All the neat options and things that make them easier to use / work with preexisting content.   You don't want to damage that section of the economy.

Is just will they dip their toe in to SL far enough to want to do that?    

While it looks to be just an aesthetic decision:  flats or heels?

It is the 'Teaching That one has to 'Do A THING'  to change the shape of the Foot Mesh'  to do that.   

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Dum question but, bento poses don't let you bend the feet?

(As in: shoes with built-in foot bento positioners)

No, you need different foot shapes built into the body. Most have flat, lot, mid, and high. Ballet (en pointe) is also now pretty common.

[KathrynLisbeth]

9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Dum question but, bento poses don't let you bend the feet?

(As in: shoes with built-in foot bento positioners)

No not a Dumb Question at All.      

You can't animate the foot,   just the ankle .. to a degree.   Is why there are ankle locks that one plays when wearing heels.

For the heel and toe rotation:  I think it was due to 2 things:  stuff with how feet can interact with Linden Land, and even if you rotate heel and toe, someone will come along and upload a priority 6 chair or dance anim and break it.

Hence the solution is to have a different shape mesh and elevate the shape.   Foot shaper or Hover Hight.

Edited July 19, 2023 by KathrynLisbeth
hit enter too soon

[Arielle Popstar]

8 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Because all women in SL be like . . ,

That tends to be me in r/l too when I just have bare feet, so not just an SL thing.

[Persephone Emerald]

7 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

No, you need different foot shapes built into the body. Most have flat, lot, mid, and high. Ballet (en pointe) is also now pretty common.

The most common shoe heights for female avatars are flat or high heels. Most of those high heels show the toes and most of the foot. Just like Barbie, any female avatar will need to have a high-heel setting. 

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by Persephone Emerald

[Scylla Rhiadra]

16 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:

This issue is going to make most newbies who want human female bodies feel like a freak, as soon as they begin to wander around SL.  I would have thought that LL would want the NUX bodies to last a newbie for more than a week or so, no? 

🙄

I do think that the foot shape thing is going to be an issue, but LL is, I'm sure, walking a pretty precarious line between creating a body that is sufficiently nice to last a noob for, as you imply, at least a couple of months, and it being so nice that they feel no need to invest in something better. And LL will want people to eventually invest in something commercial: they want to keep the SL economy humming, and don't (in this instance anyway) want to compete with Maitreya, Ebody, Legacy, et al. And if there is anything like a reasonably good take-up of the creation of clothing rigged for these bodies, that's an issue.

So, it's a question of being just good enough, but not too good.

I do wonder, in the context of that, if the absence of feet for heels isn't a case of planned obsolescence? Because, really, the Jaime body (from what I saw of it, playing around with it) is otherwise really not too bad. You wouldn't want to wander around a nude beach wearing it, but under clothing? It's just fine.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Persephone Emerald said:

The most common shoe heights for female avatars are flat or high heels. Most of those high heels show the toes and most of the foot. Just like Barbie, any female avatar need to have a high-heel setting. 

 

True enough. I was trying to find mid-heels last week, in fact. It was not so easy.

[KathrynLisbeth]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I do wonder, in the context of that, if the absence of feet for heels isn't a case of planned obsolescence?

Aya.  Is just getting them to the upgrade point.

Oh and Mid Heels.    -KC- Maia are Nice ones.

[Quistess Alpha]

4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I was trying to find mid-heels last week, in fact. It was not so easy.

Apparently, 'kitten' is the magic search word.

[Persephone Emerald]

They might be able to get by with a foot alpha and a set of bare high-heel feet. This way the foot alpha will work for any shoes that cover the feet, while the high heel feet will work with most high heel shoes. 👠 

People who are making clothes for these bodies could do this or could make shoes with feet in them.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Persephone Emerald

[Gabriele Graves]

High heel shoes far out-weigh any another type of shoe out there.  Sure most vendors have sampling of others, with flats coming a distant second but the majority of shoes are high heels.

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Quistess Alpha said:

Apparently, 'kitten' is the magic search word.

Mew?

 

[Persephone Emerald]

9 minutes ago, Quistess Alpha said:

Apparently, 'kitten' is the magic search word.

Mid heels are higher than kitten, but lower than high heels. Kitten height and ballet point are the 2 least common heights for shoes. I think mid is only for those of us who can't stand wearing high heels in real life.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Persephone Emerald

[Gabriele Graves]

11 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

They might be able to get by with a foot alpha and a set of bare high-heel feet. This way the foot alpha will work for any shoes that cover the feet, while the high heel feet will work with most high heel shoes. 👠 

People who are making clothes for these bodies could do this or could make shoes with feet in them.

As someone previously pointed out, if you use a foot alpha and add a BoM foot, the foot will also disappear.  You cannot alpha out the original feet and have replacement ones show the skin texture.  The only way this could work is if the foot isn't BoM but then you would have to skin match the foot.

[KathrynLisbeth]

Test the mechanics of the Ruth2 v4 - Mesh Avatar on the Marketplace, is free  

Is not the 'Full feature Flipper Feet'.  Is is the interchange the mesh feet solution.

[Ze Helix]

Before Slink shut down, they released a new body Cinnamon and Chai which had a foot that was rigged to bend. There weren't different mesh shapes, just one with animation moved it from flat to high. So it can be done, though as far as I know this was the first and only body to do it. Check out 0:42 in this video 

 

[KathrynLisbeth]

4 minutes ago, Ze Helix said:

Before Slink shut down, they released a new body Cinnamon and Chai which had a foot that was rigged to bend. There weren't different mesh shapes, just one with animation moved it from flat to high. So it can be done, though as far as I know this was the first and only body to do it. Check out 0:42 in this video 

 

Would been rigged to other bones, right.   So risks conflicts with other anims. 

Like how some avatar addons not work with some AO's.     

[Zalificent Corvinus]

14 minutes ago, Ze Helix said:

Before Slink shut down, they released a new body Cinnamon and Chai which had a foot that was rigged to bend. There weren't different mesh shapes, just one with animation moved it from flat to high. So it can be done, though as far as I know this was the first and only body to do it. Check out 0:42 in this video 

The bento skeletal rig contains "spare" bones. There are two pairs of arms, two pairs of legs, four eyes, four ears ears, and three (?) spare spine bones, in addition to wings and tail.

 

Unpopular niche bodies almost nobody wanted to buy like Failamon & Wai, could, for sake of example, take a couple of usually unused bones, and position tem as "toe" bones, allowing bending the toes on a mesh foot.

 

Problem is nobody else supports that, so finding shoes for that is a pain, and those "unused bones" might not be that unused, a problem the GenX bodies found, when they decided to use the *cough* UNUSED *cough* bento tail bones for rigging the built in stunt crotch, a mistake that made GenX an auto-fail with the furred/scaled and demonic sections of the mesh body market for whom bento rigged tails are pretty much standard.

 

Non standard bone usage is NOT a thing to encourage.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Persephone Emerald]

11 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Unpopular niche bodies almost nobody wanted to buy like Failamon & Wai, could, for sake of example, take a couple of usually unused bones, and position tem as "toe" bones, allowing bending the toes on a mesh foot.

Problem is nobody else supports that, so finding shoes for that is a pain, and those "unused bones" might not be that unused, a problem the GenX bodies found, when they decided to use the *cough* UNUSED *cough* bento tail bones for rigging the built in stunt crotch, a mistake that made GenX an auto-fail with the furred/scaled and demonic sections of the mesh body market for whom bento rigged tails are pretty much standard.

I'd rather wear a tail than a fancy coochie.

[Ze Helix]

I think finding shoe support wouldn't necessarily be a big problem. The HUD could be used to conform the foot to a static shoe if the shoe itself didn't bend, which I wouldn't really expect the shoes to do anyways since heel height could only ever look correct at one setting. I can think of a few cases where it could work like socks and sandals. Anyways if a popular body were to pick this method up, I would expect the new feet to be compatible with the old shoes. Maitreya updated and allowed the foot size slider to change shoe size and some began rigging for that while others just have you set your shape to size 25 to be able to wear their shoes. Rigging to the popularly used tailbone was hilarious and a big mistake, but maybe there are bones that could make the functionality trade off worth it. I don't rig so I wouldn't know, don't know what options there are to choose from. Everyone wearing 5 pairs of feet all the time does make us heavier though as far as I understand it. 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

8 minutes ago, Ze Helix said:

 I don't rig so I wouldn't know, don't know what options there are to choose from. Everyone wearing 5 pairs of feet all the time does make us heavier though as far as I understand it. 

Personally, I'd rather be able to rely on my feet staying on the ends of my legs, and my shoes staying on my feet, than dabble in insane "assume some bone us unused when it's not" experimental rigging, that means that if I wear a tail, or a pair of wings, or one of those fancy new hairs that "move in the wind", then my toes leap 12 ft to the left and turn upside down, without the rest of my feet.

 

Bento should have included "toe" bones,  but it didn't, because the developers didn't think people NEEDED bending feet, in the same way the developers for SUX assumed female avatars don't NEED to wear actual women's shoes, but want to clump around in sandals or men's work boots.

 

One wonders what the comments were like at the planning meeting...

 

"All female noobs are guys pretending to be lesbians, right? So they will all be wearing dungarees and rainbow coloured combat boots anyway. No need for Fem-SUX to have a high heel option!"

 

*rolls eyes*

Maybe that's why, from the preview pics we've seen so far, she also appears to have a face only a warthog could love.

Go figure.

[KathrynLisbeth]

21 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Personally, I'd rather be able to rely on my feet staying on the ends of my legs, .......

That.    Even if current mechanism of exchanging the visible mesh foot is imperfect,   it is more reliable than having to constantly debug .. Yet another 'Little Exception'.

Since the whole notion is to lessen the 'accumulation of get mad and play another one of them Video games, because this 'stuff makes no sense things'.  It is useful / imperfect compromise.

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by KathrynLisbeth

[Qie Niangao]

It's fairly stupid that they made the clothing mesh no-mod, cuz it's all pretty lame, but it's really exceptionally stupid that they made the clothing alpha masks no-mod. Yeah, that'll really help with adoption of a BoM-only, no-alphacuts body.

They need to clean up stuff like this before they turn it loose again.

And this project really needed to consult residents earlier. As-is, it's either going to be a complete dud, or they've got at least a calendar quarter of re-work ahead to recoup some value from all that sunk cost.

(Unless, that is, whatever escaped into our Libraries was nothing like what they intend to release.)

[Persephone Emerald]

5 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

They need to clean up stuff like this before they turn it loose again.

[snip]

(Unless, that is, whatever escaped into our Libraries was nothing like what they intend to release.)

Maybe the version they accidentally released today was not meant to be the finished version. I don't think we should judge it too much until we have the version that we know is supposed to be used by new users.

[animats]

There's some internal machinery where the sim tells the viewer the surface normal of what you're standing on, and that's supposed to make the foot tilt to match the ground. I don't know if that's actually doing anything to avatars any more.

Edited July 19, 2023 by animats