Why Is No One Complaining About the Sales Tax?

[Prokofy Neva]

I'm mystified why more people don't complain about the sales tax. Like death -- and one could add -- prim limitations -- taxes are inevitable, and we already have fees for buying Lindens, fees for cashing out Lindens, and fees of 10% for selling on the MP. So why not the sales tax? It's inevitable and it's a wonder the Lindens, who began as something of a hippie commune, and now are...um...I'm not sure what to call them, an investment group with a public interest and experimental bent -- haven't charged the same tax on the Internet that every other online business has to pay, despite Amazon and others lobbying against Internet taxation for years. 

So to try to understand the nature of SL and its users, which is really such a black box, I theorize the following:

1) The lion's share of users are basic accounts. They don't need a premium account. They can rent island parcels or Mainland parcels without a premium account. Heck, you can own an entire island or more plus homesteads, without a premium account. It is not required to own an island. I think many island owners have premium accounts anyway, but it's not required.

2) Therefore the very poor and the very rich don't need premium accounts to have fun in SL, to socialize or even run a business. There are actually residents, especially from countries that make it hard to obtain credit cards or use PayPal, that run their businesses and don't cash out, and use the cash to buy content in SL or perhaps they very rarely cash out, or perhaps have one member of their group who cashes out (for which you do need at least a credit card on file, if not a premium account).

3) There are people playing Game of Homes who buy 50 Bellisseria houses. But if they are rich enough for that, they likely annualize their accounts, so, let's say they pay US $5000 or whatever for their 50 houses, if they now have let's say less than 10% of that going to tax (US $500), it doesn't really affect them that much.

4) You would think those with 100 islands, the really large land owners, now having to pay sales tax of some kind on their holdings, would complain the loudest. Yet they are silent, as always. Do they have a bulk discount, as is widely suspected? (And would be normal and justifiable). Have they been offered any deal on the sales tax? A deeper bulk discount to cover their new costs?

5) Yes, we all get it that you can write off business costs on your income taxes if you run a business in SL if you report it in RL. For small businesses, this isn't enough to bother with. But even if you *do* write off the costs, it doesn't mean those costs completely disappear (many are confused about this as they don't actually itemize and keep track of business expenses). You write off SOME of the cost to reduce your taxable income, but that doesn't eliminate the entire cost. It merely reduces it. Perhaps those with very large holdings still write off enough to feel it doesn't affect them?

6) They are indeed harmed, but this is the last straw, and they quietly give up their island or even 1024 on a premium account, which is now $13.05 in my locality, not $11.99 as it was. I find when people need to cut costs in RL due to job loss or higher gasoline prices, they will give up a rental that costs US $1.50 simply because they want to feel like they are doing something to cut their costs. And maybe the latte which is 4 times that amount was too hard to give up. So we didn't hear from them, and we have no idea how many of them there are.

7) They are part of the silent majority of 90% who don't post on the forums. And out of the 10% that read them, they aren't among the 2% who post (let's say).

8 ) They are Europeans or other non-Americans and pay VAT or have already been paying some sort of tax on their Internet purchases; they already complained ages ago to no effect, and were bitter that Americans were at an advantage, seemingly; now they can gloat over another's misfortune that "leveled the playing field".

9) They live in Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, and Oregon -- the five states without sales tax. No, incorporating your business in Delaware does not cure this problem unless your credit card has an address in Delaware, too, and it can't be a PO Box.

So I complain simply because I view it as a big cost to my little tiny business, in the scheme of things, and I wonder how it can be mitigated in other ways inworld or out. For me, an extra US $270 per month is worse even than tiering a new island for $229 -- an island plus a homestead that I can't make back with rental income. It's another sunk land cost (land is never an investment) in an economy that is already cratering in parts (and maybe that is inevitable with all virtual economies).

Tiering Down

So let's say I tier down 1/4 a sim, which can be hard to do if you want to keep communities intact. I will have only saved myself $4 or $5 in the *taxes* on that taxable amount of tier.  But at least  I will have reduced the tier payment by US $44 for the discount above one sim, so if I get rid of 1.5 sims, I will make up the tax. But that is rather hard to do without selling land out from under tenants, which is madness, or cutting the commons area so close it doesn't look nice and isn't rentable, or in some other way opening up nice communities to risk. In the past, when there were sudden Linden ruinations of the economy (like the time they crashed the opening auction prices, or the gatcha ban), I respond by rapidly getting rid of any "pontoons," that is land that is alone on a sim and like the sections of the Titanic (it was once hoped) which could be flooded individually without sinking the whole boat, I could get by. So any "orphan" land immediately goes if there isn't a tenant on it, if there isn't an immediate prospect of another tenant.

Dumping Premium Accounts

Even so, I found this really hard to do, and then I got a brain wave -- the premium account is now $13.05, get rid of 3 of those, I've saved US $39.14 -- nearly the price of a 1/4 sim ($44). So three of those went immediately, a Bellisseria stamp location (moved), my old Linden home (dumped), a camper location with a rare 4 sides protected (oh well, I never went there), a Newbrooke home (they aren't all that). So that saves 1024 x 3 also -- and I'll work on moving/dumping more. Of course you want to put the Linden home on that account that may still have $500L stipend and not one with $300 stipend. The $500 no longer "pays for the account" (it's only US $8.00 at current rates on the LindEx and that reduces the cost but doesn't cover it even annualized at US $8.25/mo). But at this point, I'll even dump old accounts with the $500 tier (which you can't expect to get back if you resume the account) just because it is low-hanging fruit to cut.

Downsizing Projects

Then I abandoned land that was "project" land, that I was hoping to build something on, maybe some site in the SL Public Land Preserve, maybe a new rentals area, maybe just an art gallery or a personal sandbox -- out it goes. Snow especially, which is always a bad buy. And these days, I abandon rather than sell, since land sells quickly now only for 0.2/m or less, which means land barons move in on it and chop it up, and now you have ugliness next to your community or even just a nice sim where you had one parcel. Why harm your neighbours? What you make from that sale is not worth that destruction. At least with abandoning, you force that land baron to request it and pay $1/m for it, which he may not be willing to do. You increase the chances that an end user who will improve it will get it.

Austerity on Purchases

I've been on austerity mode since the gatcha ban, rarely buying new land unless it seems absolutely vital to protect the view on an existing community or can be prim land in an existing community. An obvious cost-cutting is food for breedables or breedables themselves -- although that diminishes some of the joy of SL. Certainly new clothes or most new furniture that isn't on a 60L sale now is out of the question. And PS do you really save with weekend sales? I find you can spend US $10 on a weekend sale over nothing, buying things you don't want or need "because they're on sale". Lately I don't spend that much, but I can see how it gets spent. 60L = US $0.24 -- a quarter. But buy 20 things for that price -- or $75 or $99 as they often are now -- and you have spent US $5.00. So four weekends of $5 or $10 adds up, obviously -- and it can be -- again -- a quarter of a sim tier. 

Are my fellow Mainland dealers or rentals agents doing the same? Who knows? The forums is not a place for open and honest and fair discussions. Does it matter? I don't think so, because see above, most people in SL don't own land and don't have the recurring cost of a premium account or tier. The lion's share of Bellisseria customers probably only own one premium account, or perhaps 5, but then that's only maybe US $5 more they are paying, and they don't care. 

Some people might read this post and agree or find useful information; most won't care because -- see above. I certainly don't expect any mitigation whatsoever from LL, which has a business to run and which has to do what every other online business has to do. 

Why do I post this under "Mainland?" Because I think the premium account -- the chief product from which RL sales tax will be garnered -- is mainly for Mainland, and Bellisseria, which I view as an extension of Mainland as it is contiguous.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Prokofy Neva

[Lisa006 Baxton]

15 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

9) They live in Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, and Oregon -- the five states without sales tax. No, incorporating your business in Delaware does not cure this problem unless your credit card has an address in Delaware, too, and it can't be a PO Box.

I live in KS which has sales tax but do not tax digital goods. Not sure how many other states are like KS.

[Prokofy Neva]

1 hour ago, Lisa006 Baxton said:

I live in KS which has sales tax but do not tax digital goods. Not sure how many other states are like KS.

Good point! Although there are only about a dozen of such states, although more that only tax some digital goods -- and we don't know how they characterized SL.

Also it's interesting to see that more red states drop the Internet or digital goods tax as they tend to be more business oriented so that ultimately they may be winners of the Internet in culture and business unlike the blue states, which likely pride themselves as inventing and running the Internet.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Prokofy Neva

[Kathlen Onyx]

Texas does not have sales tax on digital goods either but even if they did I wouldn't spend my time complaining about something that inevitably will happen anyway.  Why complain? You are probably the only person that has even thought this deeply about this to post a book about it.  I honestly don't think many people have thought about it.  If sales tax changes someone's habits on Second Life they most likely were stretching their entertainment budget thin already.  

[Prokofy Neva]

56 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Texas does not have sales tax on digital goods either but even if they did I wouldn't spend my time complaining about something that inevitably will happen anyway.  Why complain? You are probably the only person that has even thought this deeply about this to post a book about it.  I honestly don't think many people have thought about it.  If sales tax changes someone's habits on Second Life they most likely were stretching their entertainment budget thin already.  

Thanks, you're adding to the pool of knowledge on this subject!

[Coffee Pancake]

The forums represent a tiny insignificant fraction of the user base, less than 1% even if we factor in hordes of imagined lurkers.

LL's reach to inform people in SL about the changes is equally tiny.

If there are complaints, they will come in form of downsizing, primarily dropping short term premium renewals. There may be an increase in small land & region holders dropping out, but the sunk cost fallacy and emotional investment might drag this out significantly as they try to justify keeping going. 

Keep in mind, LL should have always been paying this tax (previously included in the price), so any change isn't "boo hiss bad gubment", it's LL increasing prices by the tax amount depending on your location. Although how many people will realize this is debatable.

When they do increase the L$ purchase price to pass this onto the user, then a lot of people are going to get stung and there will be a more noise. Especially if people start getting flagged for buying L$ for friends and passing the US between each other outside of SL.

 

Personally, I'm L$ neutral for the most part, my sales from a few stores mostly cover my costs and premium memberships. However if I'm looking short when annual renewals start popping I might reconsider, especially with the upcoming premium ploos (come on, it's not even a word, really?)

Edited April 13, 2022 by Coffee Pancake

[Prokofy Neva]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The forums represent a tiny insignificant fraction of the user base, less than 1% even if we factor in hordes of imagined lurkers.

LL's reach to inform people in SL about the changes is equally tiny.

If there are complaints, they will come in form of downsizing, primarily dropping short term premium renewals. There may be an increase in small land & region holders dropping out, but the sunk cost fallacy and emotional investment might drag this out significantly as they try to justify keeping going. 

Keep in mind, LL should have always been paying this tax (previously included in the price), so any change isn't "boo hiss bad gubment", it's LL increasing prices by the tax amount depending on your location. Although how many people will realize this is debatable.

When they do increase the L$ purchase price to pass this onto the user, then a lot of people are going to get stung and there will be a more noise. Especially if people start getting flagged for buying L$ for friends and passing the US between each other outside of SL.

 

Personally, I'm L$ neutral for the most part, my sales from a few stores mostly cover my costs and premium memberships. However if I'm looking short when annual renewals start popping I might reconsider, especially with the upcoming premium ploos (come on, it's not even a word, really?)

I don't know if you actually read my post, but I don't oppose this tax -- it's a legitimate tax. It's what online business should do -- as decided by the legislatures of each state, democratically, which I'm all for doing. If I object to the tax, I need to complain to my state senator, not to Linden Lab. And I don't, because I believe in taxation and I don't say "boo, hiss, gubment" as so many do in SL. Not at all. 

What I wished to hear about was how people coped. And there I *did* complain, because it is difficult to do within 30 days. More lead time would have been nice, especially since -- as with the gatcha policy -- we don't see any actual RL regulatory power anywhere making a complain to LL. It's just the new lawyer investor "limiting liability". So 60 or 90 days would have been better.

And it's also hard to address the tax only by downsizing, as even an entire sim of downsizing doesn't so much lesson the tax, as lesson the overall tier you pay, to enable you to use the difference to pay the tax.

I didn't mention raising prices as a response because I don't think that's viable in this economy.

LL had no relief for Europeans who complained bitterly and vocally and even with lurid posters with red hands about the VAT tax imposition. But they did eventually lower their prices. Of course, that lowered them for Americans, too, and they felt this was unfair competition. But if your democratic choice is that you want to be heavily taxed and have then free health care, education, parental leave, etc. then you can't really complain about VAT, which is applied everywhere, so why not the Internet? It's not a sacred unicorn realm.

Now, did the VAT tax really give Americans an unfair advantage? I don't think the answer to that is black and white. Anshe Chung, for example, continued her business for some years after VAT was imposed. It's not like you see only Americans in the land business or any business. So you might be able to convince me that all these people left or went out of business due to VAT, but I don't see it.

[LittleMe Jewell]

It is also still pretty early in the month and LL just started charging the tax a week ago.  My tier doesn't come due until the 26th, so I've not had a tax bill on that yet.  My next Premium renewal isn't until June because I pay yearly, so I won't get a tax bill on that for a few months still. 

There are likely many other folks with similar billing periods and so they just haven't been hit with the tax yet. 

Even when the tax finally hits me, I've already downsized my mainland for other reasons and so I'm currently only pay $7 per month - tax on that will only cost me about 50 cents.  Tax on my Premium, when it finally comes due, will only cost me about $7.50, which isn't really a lot in the grand scheme of things.

[Coffee Pancake]

33 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I don't know if you actually read my post, but I don't oppose this tax -- it's a legitimate tax.

I did, and I'm likewise not opposed to tax. That's how we get public services.

34 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

What I wished to hear about was how people coped. And there I *did* complain, because it is difficult to do within 30 days. More lead time would have been nice, especially since -- as with the gatcha policy -- we don't see any actual RL regulatory power anywhere making a complain to LL. It's just the new lawyer investor "limiting liability". So 60 or 90 days would have been better.

We have to presume LL were paying all the taxes required of them prior to the announcement, which meant that prices already included the tax and it was just spread out over the entire population regardless of state.

To switch from that model to now adding the tax on specifically for residents who are in states that charge it, is a price hike.

 

[Prokofy Neva]

4 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I did, and I'm likewise not opposed to tax. That's how we get public services.

We have to presume LL were paying all the taxes required of them prior to the announcement, which meant that prices already included the tax and it was just spread out over the entire population regardless of state.

To switch from that model to now adding the tax on specifically for residents who are in states that charge it, is a price hike.

 

LL claims that they "absorbed" this tax; that it was "included in the price" like VAT is in some European countries. But I frankly find this hard to believe. I think they wore likely selective about this or not diligent about this, and that their new investor lawyer decided this was a thing to do to comply with some hypothetical Internet police which may appear some day. They could have decided, as a small company based in California, with a relatively small user base, even if international, that they would only apply California tax, and that would have saved me at least something (7.25% versus 8.75% which I'm paying in the Vampire State).

[Aethelwine]

I would have thought any complaints were better raised with your State rather than Linden Lab.

It does seem to me that Sale's Taxes and VAT on digital goods is possibly an overly complex burden on businesses and administration costs for complying might be excessive, but that is just off the top of my head. A Tax expert would probably be better placed to inform that than my idle speculation. The fact however is alot of States and Countries demand these payments to support their infrastructure costs that their Tax regimes fund. Whilst even just a handful of countries tax digital goods that burden would have to be met by any e-business.

I don't think complaining to Linden Lab for complying with Tax law is really going to be effective, better to talk with your local State legislature representative to see if the Tax revenue could be better obtained in a different way and they could drop taxes on digital goods.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Aethelwine

[Prokofy Neva]

16 minutes ago, Aethelwine said:

I would have thought any complaints were better raised with your State rather than Linden Lab.

It does seem to me that Sale's Taxes and VAT on digital goods is possibly an overly complex burden on businesses and administration costs for complying might be excessive, but that is just off the top of my head. A Tax expert would probably be better placed to inform that than my idle speculation. The fact however is alot of States and Countries demand these payments to support their infrastructure costs that their Tax regimes fund. Whilst even just a handful of countries tax digital goods that burden would have to be met by any e-business.

I don't think complaining to Linden Lab for complying with Tax law is really going to be effective, better to talk with your local State legislature representative to see if the Tax revenue could be better obtained in a different way and they could drop taxes on digital goods.

I'll try explaining one more time. My complaint is not THAT there is a tax -- which as I noted, is legitimate and necessary. My complaint isn't to Linden Lab or to my state, which I wouldn't expect to influence on this arcane manner although some have generally fought the Internet taxation.

Rather, my question is why is no one complaining about how it is done, and how they have taken a hit from it. No one is saying "I have to downsize" or "my business is now slower because all these people have to pay this tax now". 

So then I ask questions: why? Has it affected people so differently? Do they really all live in Alaska or Kentucky, or did they in fact already address this 10 years ago in the EU with VAT? What's the story?

So you're going on about why a tax is legitimate -- that I said from the outset was legitimate -- read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote. My complaint isn't "to Linden Lab" -- again because it's more a query about why no one is articulating that they feel this pain. I asked it briefly at the end of the Concierge meeting and also found no one cared.

So see if you can get past your need to lecture me about where I should be complaining about the tax per se, and try to ask why more people aren't expressing that it affects them, and complaining about *the effect*, *not the tax".

[Prokofy Neva]

3 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

It is also still pretty early in the month and LL just started charging the tax a week ago.  My tier doesn't come due until the 26th, so I've not had a tax bill on that yet.  My next Premium renewal isn't until June because I pay yearly, so I won't get a tax bill on that for a few months still. 

There are likely many other folks with similar billing periods and so they just haven't been hit with the tax yet. 

Even when the tax finally hits me, I've already downsized my mainland for other reasons and so I'm currently only pay $7 per month - tax on that will only cost me about 50 cents.  Tax on my Premium, when it finally comes due, will only cost me about $7.50, which isn't really a lot in the grand scheme of things.

So what you're saying is that there are people who don't read the Linden blogs, and don't read the forums, and when they see that their $175 Mainland Sim, or their $229 island, now has a tax of (in New York City at least) US $15.31 or $20.03, only then will they howl and say what's this???

Except if they have that amount of tier, and not just a premium account for $11.99 a month, you would think that they, like me, the instant they heard this announcement -- which isn't just on the blog but is on a banner warning and was announced at group meetings and such, they would get out their calculators, start counting up, and start figuring out what they could cut to avoid higher costs of an already rather expensive virtual world experience.

I'm not getting your "$7.50". Is that per year or what? NYC has pretty high tax at 0.0875%. So that puts the $11.99 premium now at $13.05 per month which I confirmed seeing the bills come in. If there was any hope that they would bill only on recurring premium accounts, and not tier, forget about it -- tier is, of course, taxed as well. 

[Aethelwine]

In my case I have been paying VAT for some time. I suppose my main surprise is that it has taken time for this to be introduced more widely. 

[Prokofy Neva]

3 minutes ago, Aethelwine said:

In my case I have been paying VAT for some time. I suppose my main surprise is that it has taken time for this to be introduced more widely. 

So the VAT tax on sims is 20% according to this chart which may be outdated. That means even Americans with higher taxes like NYS will still be ahead of Europeans in terms of having cheaper sims. Why aren't there more complaints about this? Answer: because Europeans in the land business get a bulk discount?

[Aethelwine]

15 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I'll try explaining one more time. My complaint is not THAT there is a tax -- which as I noted, is legitimate and necessary. My complaint isn't to Linden Lab or to my state, which I wouldn't expect to influence on this arcane manner although some have generally fought the Internet taxation.

Rather, my question is why is no one complaining about how it is done, and how they have taken a hit from it. No one is saying "I have to downsize" or "my business is now slower because all these people have to pay this tax now". 

So then I ask questions: why? Has it affected people so differently? Do they really all live in Alaska or Kentucky, or did they in fact already address this 10 years ago in the EU with VAT? What's the story?

So you're going on about why a tax is legitimate -- that I said from the outset was legitimate -- read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote. My complaint isn't "to Linden Lab" -- again because it's more a query about why no one is articulating that they feel this pain. I asked it briefly at the end of the Concierge meeting and also found no one cared.

So see if you can get past your need to lecture me about where I should be complaining about the tax per se, and try to ask why more people aren't expressing that it affects them, and complaining about *the effect*, *not the tax".

I didn't mean to lecture you but I did get sidetracked in my point. 

For someone that accepts the tax legitimate, why would they complain about it. For those that don't then my point makes sense complaining here on in world to friends might help let off steam or elicit some sympathy, but if they really want change then it is with those behind the tax regime affecting them that they should be addressing. 

[Aethelwine]

8 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

So the VAT tax on sims is 20% according to this chart which may be outdated. That means even Americans with higher taxes like NYS will still be ahead of Europeans in terms of having cheaper sims. Why aren't there more complaints about this? Answer: because Europeans in the land business get a bulk discount?

Or because we know our taxes go on important infrastructure like hospitals, police etc. And that has to be funded somehow. Maybe our income tax is lower.  It is what it is and not really an SL issue

[Elise Banx]

its just the US that have been added to the tax in sl now everyone else have been paying VAT forever like europe/UK etc... you dont see us ranting in the forums about it do you?

[Qie Niangao]

I expect people will respond in ways already suggested, including tiering down and shedding Premium accounts, but at the margins of "belt-tightening" without acute awareness that they're doing it because of the sales tax.

Not that the Lab timed it this way, but now may be the perfect time to do it because everyone's expectation is that all costs are going up, so a little extra to keep the SL lights on won't be such a big surprise.

Rationally, a tax on digital sales is only fair in a jurisdiction with other sales taxes. Brick-and-mortar stores don't deserve another disadvantage right now.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Qie Niangao

[Alwin Alcott]

2 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

 Answer: because Europeans in the land business get a bulk discount?

What a accusation again, and it's not true .

Every huge landlord no matter their location can get in the Atlas program ( nowhere to find, but public secret), IF they meet the criteria.
Details about this are subject to a NDA

Calling out as if it's for  Europeans is absurd.

The only way around VAT is by a business model, and that has nothing to do with LL or their prices.
 

[Prokofy Neva]

20 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

What a accusation again, and it's not true .

Every huge landlord no matter their location can get in the Atlas program ( nowhere to find, but public secret), IF they meet the criteria.
Details about this are subject to a NDA

Calling out as if it's for  Europeans is absurd.

The only way around VAT is by a business model, and that has nothing to do with LL or their prices.
 

I wonder how you take away from this statement "Because Europeans in the land business get a bulk discount" that this is "calling it out as if it's for Europeans". Obviously it's about Europeans who can mitigate the VAT if they get a bulk discount. It's not claiming only they can do this. 

I'm glad you put a name to the program AND explained that it is an NDA project. Because I've never seen proof that it existed, and doubted its existence. But I never had any notion that it was "only for Europeans" or "only for Americans". That's absurd. Obviously It's by amount of regions purchased, not nationality, and everyone knows that.

The point is that Europeans in the land business who get a bulk discount thereby relieve some of the pain of application of the VAT. That's not some slam on them; it's merely a statement of fact. And now Americans, too, in the Atlas program, also have relief from the new application of sales tax by the bulk discount. That is, if they had the bulk discount *before* taxation, having it *now* doesn't mitigate it (except by comparison with those who do not have the Atlas discount). But both parties have even further relief if the Lindens recently increased that bulk discount to offset the tax burn. And we don't know that they didn't, since it's secret. Did they? Yes or no.

The "way around VAT via a business model" is simply registering your business and tracking your expenses and obtaining then tax exemptions. The same as in the US. That's not a "model"; that's a practice if your business is large enough. And on the page about the VAT, which I linked to, I pointed out that for those who opt for that route, the Lindens will provide documentation. I believe they will also issue 1099s in the US, although I'm not certain.

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Prokofy Neva

[Prokofy Neva]

2 hours ago, Aethelwine said:

Or because we know our taxes go on important infrastructure like hospitals, police etc. And that has to be funded somehow. Maybe our income tax is lower.  It is what it is and not really an SL issue

We also fund hospitals, roads and police by taxes. It's just that they aren't as high. And maybe therefore the services are worse, that could be debated. But imagine, we even have socialized medicine for people with costly conditions or low income, although it is not evenly distributed as much as some would like.

I think to Americans who now face a radical deterioration of public services and a flight from their very states of business and entrepreneurs due to the pandemic and various political factors, to suddenly face a digital goods tax seems onerous. Especially when digital downloads like music and books *are not taxed* in NYS. So it's hard to understand how SL -- essentially a download and a form of entertainment like a song, a book, or a movie -- got interpreted as taxable. In any event, as I explained, I do not question either LL or NYS regarding any Internet tax, which seems legitimate to me for many reasons; I merely complain about the burden of it, and wish to learn whether others felt it was a burden or not. Not surprisingly, Europeans who already suffered the VAT taxation are unimpressed with any American suffering on this subject. 

[Marianne Little]

I would rather have a raise in the rental cost, than pay tier to LL with 25% VAT added on it. It is no way you will raise the rent with 25%, is it?

If you say somewhere that you will raise the rent, I did not see it. I am sorry if I missed it.

A careful increase in the rent, to see how it rolls with the tenants, is something you should consider and test out. Maybe even set different prices, like the best areas get a rise? It is how it works in RL. Desirable land cost more.

Maybe you can't take up all the taxes in rent, but a part of it. Of course somebody will leave in a hissyfit, but maybe they were already thinking about leaving.

I believe Mainland is the cheaper rent already, and people are willing to pay more for rentals like Fruit Islands.

[Prokofy Neva]

1 hour ago, Elise Banx said:

its just the US that have been added to the tax in sl now everyone else have been paying VAT forever like europe/UK etc... you dont see us ranting in the forums about it do you?

You may have missed the "red hand" protests of 2008 which had plenty of discussion.

[Prokofy Neva]

3 hours ago, Aethelwine said:

I didn't mean to lecture you but I did get sidetracked in my point. 

For someone that accepts the tax legitimate, why would they complain about it. For those that don't then my point makes sense complaining here on in world to friends might help let off steam or elicit some sympathy, but if they really want change then it is with those behind the tax regime affecting them that they should be addressing. 

I think you still aren't seeing that my query is a) whether people find it a burden -- not that the forums is much of a sample, but it's something and b) how they are coping with it. LL will collect this tax and turn it over to states and it puts no peas in their pot. Meanwhile, to pay it, people will downsize -- a premium account, an entire region of tier, whatever. So how much of that will there be? Will it ultimately have an impact on LL's bottom line and the inworld economy?