And the Theme for SLB 19 is . . . Steampunk????

[Luna Bliss]

18 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I quite like Steampunk

I'm not sure that I like it. Some is aesthetically pleasing...more so the aquatic environments. But too much of it is like Transhumanism, just without electricity.

[Catrie]

"None of this responds to my central point: this has niche appeal. Just as any particular flavour of aesthetic or role play would. "

 

The Crystals from whatever year that was also  had niche appeal.  How many people can say they put some of those things out and keep them out?  How many people actually took the things?  I love fantasy and I think I've pulled them out exactly once in order to look at them, and never again.  Which reminds me to get rid of that crap on the rare chance I actually clean my inventory.  (No, Orwar, you can't just command me to do it. sticks out tongue)

I think they did Carnival one year. That's super niche. Not every celebrates that.  Most of their themes are niche.  You could even say the Vacation and Road Trip one is, because not everyone can go on vacations and road trips.   So, I'm not sure why you're complaining that the Steampunk theme is niche, when they pick a niche theme just about every year.  Have you made a similar thread for each one of the past niche themes?  If not, why was this one different? I'm just curious.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Catrie

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

I'm not sure that I like it. Some is aesthetically pleasing...more so the aquatic environments. But too much of it is like Transhumanism, just without electricity.

The transhumanism thing is one of the elements you sometimes see in it that I actually find rather interesting -- although, God knows, I'm not a transhumanist. But it's clever and thoughtful and playful.

Aesthetically, I like the historical elements, but I find the Victorian a bit dark and murky, on the whole. (And yes, there are of course LOTS of exceptions.) I'm more Edwardian myself. I like the idea of a civilization on the edge of self-immolation, and too elegant and refined to acknowledge it.

[Luna Bliss]

I don't like Transhumanism. It's the downfall of the world really.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

6 minutes ago, Catrie said:

I think they did Carnival one year. That's super niche. Not every celebrates that.  Most of their themes are niche.  You could even say the Vacation and Road Trip one is, because not everyone can go on vacations and road trips.   So, I'm not sure why you're complaining that the Steampunk theme is niche, when they pick a niche theme just about every year.  Have you made a similar thread for each one of the past niche themes?  If not, why was this one different? I'm just curious.

I think all of these things can be niche, depending upon how one interprets them. I actually DID an exhibit for crystal -- my nod to the theme was a giant crystal that housed the actual exhibit, which I seem to remember relating thematically to the content, but I don't remember precisely how.

But "carnival" is a much more generic term -- it needn't refer to any one particular celebration. The "carnivalesque" is actually a sort of narrative/rhetorical mode which can be applied to almost any context: it's the idea of a "world turned upside down," a "court of misrule," and so forth.

We could go through the list and find themes that I'm sure are niche, although I still think most are more "open" than this one. I'm sure that a Steampunk theme will produce a very attractive and interesting set of installations, but it is, by definition, limited in its appeal in the way that something like "community" or "the future" is not.

The key point is not that "Steampunk sucks." I haven't said that, and wouldn't. The point I'm trying to make is that these shouldn't be niche: they should be themes that can be related to any of the enormous diversity of experiences available in SL. Maybe that's a tough ask -- but I think they've done better at it in the past, and could have done better this time around.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

20 minutes ago, Han Held said:

I prefer "fck it, build whatever we don't care but if you want a suggestion -steampunk"

I'd endorse the first part of this statement. I don't really understand why we need "themes." There is no "theme" to SL. It's what we make of it.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Harper Held]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I'd endorse the first part of this statement. I don't really understand why we need "themes." There is no "theme" to SL. It's what we make of it.

A hedge against builder's block? It's nice to have a page that we all read from, even if what we end up writing is wildly different than what we read

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Han Held said:

A hedge against builder's block? It's nice to have a page that we all read from, even if what we end up writing is wildly different than what we read

If I had any confidence that the proposal adjudicators would look favourably upon imaginative and creative ways of applying the theme, I'd be more inclined to agree.

I am sure that there are lots of Steampunk aficionados who are genuinely really excited by this. And that's totally a good thing. But if I had to guess, a great many people who might have submitted will look at the announced theme and simply give up: "Well, that's not my thing. I can't do that."

I may be wrong. I genuinely hope I am wrong. We'll see, I guess!

[Polenth Yue]

If your exposure to steampunk has been a quick walk around Caledon and New Babbage, that's not really what it's about. Those areas are steampunk, but they don't represent the whole genre. It's not strictly Victorian. It can cover any place and time. It covers a range of different technology interpretations, not just literal steam engines. It can include roleplay, but also stories, music, fashion, art and so on.

You also don't have to follow the theme for exhibits. This wasn't true in the long past, but the more recent birthdays have made the themes optional.

[Harper Held]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

If I had any confidence that the proposal adjudicators would look favourably upon imaginative and creative ways of applying the theme, I'd be more inclined to agree.

 

I've never had any problems with that -except for one application I included the word "controversial" in. Lesson learned, there.

[Harper Held]

1 minute ago, Polenth Yue said:

This wasn't true in the long past, but the more recent birthdays have made the themes optional.

Yep, and even in the past ...speaking just for myself...part of the appeal of it was thinking of creative ways to push the theme yet still be accepted.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Polenth Yue said:

If your exposure to steampunk has been a quick walk around Caledon and New Babbage, that's not really what it's about. Those areas are steampunk, but they don't represent the whole genre. It's not strictly Victorian. It can cover any place and time. It covers a range of different technology interpretations, not just literal steam engines. It can include roleplay, but also stories, music, fashion, art and so on.

You also don't have to follow the theme for exhibits. This wasn't true in the long past, but the more recent birthdays have made the themes optional.

I very much hope that that is the way the proposal judges understand it.

I'm not at all sure that is the way the potential exhibitors who are not into Steampunk will read this announcement.

[mikka Luik]

'SteamPunk' as a name for an alternative time line based around a glitch in Victorian Empire* history is interesting re: (to grab one at random)   Sterling/Gibson 'The Difference Engine'. 'SteamPunk' based on fashi0nista is - very SL. That is fair enough. So why not. More sales plus I have a top hat of gears. Our world still hihi
'Collective We' have done a few SLBs. Not sure on this one cos steam punk to me means you have to have a coal tender behind your sportster. Also certain episodes with Nemesis the Warlock =^^=
* alternate history in this case is interesting.
As always I nod to @Han Held

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, mikka Luik said:

Not sure on this one cos steam punk to me means you have to have a coal tender behind your sportster.

This is sort of my concern. Regardless of whether or not one actually needs "a coal tender behind your sportster," I suspect a lot of people are going to simply read it this way.

But yes, I agree that it is interesting. But so are a great many other things that are probably not going to be appearing at SLB because of this.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

45 minutes ago, Catrie said:

You clearly haven't been exposed to enough Steampunk if you think all of it consists of Victorian England/Western Europe. 

Here are only a few examples of other styles of Steampunk.   That took me literally 5 minutes to look up. (Thanks Pinterest).  That you put Steampunk in such a small box says more about your lack of understanding about it, than anything else. 

To be fair to Scylla, I believe she meant Steampunk's origins (please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, Scylla!). Japan's got a history with it, too, if I'm not mistaken.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Ayashe Ninetails said:

To be fair to Scylla, I believe she meant Steampunk's origins (please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, Scylla!). Japan's got a history with it, too, if I'm not mistaken.

Oh definitely. And there have been lots of examples of it extended into other cultures here, and on the other SLB thread. That's fascinating.

One of my favourite YA novel series employs elements that have been clearly lifted from Steampunk -- and it's set in a high fantasy medieval world. The cleverness of that derives from the way that "science" is treated as a kind of a "magic" to those who don't understand it.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Oh definitely. And there have been lots of examples of it extended into other cultures here, and on the other SLB thread. That's fascinating.

One of my favourite YA novel series employs elements that have been clearly lifted from Steampunk -- and it's set in a high fantasy medieval world. The cleverness of that derives from the way that "science" is treated as a kind of a "magic" to those who don't understand it.

Honestly, I would say Steampunk fashion (in my region of America) isn't all that multicultural - far less popular than even general alternative/goth tends to be (which is damn near non-existent - at least around NYC anyway - maybe popular elsewhere I dunno - I always had trouble finding people who looked like me in the scene). Fair warning - I'm making assumptions!! - but I never ran into it in any alternative communities I was a part of - and most of those weren't very multicultural either. It absolutely is a thing that exists and I'm pretty sure there are books and comics written by Black authors, for example (I'm not too into the genre, so I'm not 100% sure - standard goth here). That said, we DO have Afropunk! Festivals and all. Those are widely advertised and attended, though my slacking butt has never been to one yet. Those events are more geared (see wut I did thar) towards general alternative and punk scenes, but maybe some Steam lovers attend those, too.

That said, I think it's a theme with a lot of potential for creativity - as long as participants think way outside the box (it can get a little predictable - just scroll through Pinterest).

[MoiraKathleen]

As just an SLB attendee, I am looking forward to seeing what exhibitors (and the Moles, for the public areas) do with this theme.  I don't always "connect" personally with the theme, but still always enjoy seeing the various ways the theme is interpreted. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

5 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Honestly, I would say Steampunk fashion (in my region of America) isn't all that multicultural - far less popular than even general alternative/goth tends to be (which is damn near non-existent - at least around NYC anyway - maybe popular elsewhere I dunno - I always had trouble finding people who looked like me in the scene). Fair warning - I'm making assumptions!! - but I never ran into it in any alternative communities I was a part of - and most of those weren't very multicultural either.

I honestly don't know -- I loved the pics you posted on the other thread, and I'm quite willing to believe Orwar and Catrie that it is more multicultural than my admittedly superficial experience of it would suggest.

Again, though, this isn't really about Steampunk, as such, so far as I'm concerned. A theme of anime would be as limiting, I think.

Although . . . now I think about it . . . most of Miyazaki's films have a strong and very visible element that is Steampunk-ish . . . hmmmmmm!

10 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

That said, I think it's a theme with a lot of potential for creativity - as long as participants think way outside the box

Fingers crossed!

[Scylla Rhiadra]

8 minutes ago, MoiraKathleen said:

As just an SLB attendee, I am looking forward to seeing what exhibitors (and the Moles, for the public areas) do with this theme.  I don't always "connect" personally with the theme, but still always enjoy seeing the various ways the theme is interpreted. 

Agreed.

Most of the Steampunk builds I've seen in SL have been pretty good. They're a little "darker" than is my personal preference, but they certainly are good at creating ambiance. It will be interesting to see what results. And if, as I hope happens, Han and Ayashe are right, and creators who are not necessarily into Steampunk rise to the challenge.

[Coffee Pancake]

27 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Most of the Steampunk builds I've seen in SL have been pretty good. They're a little "darker" than is my personal preference, but they certainly are good at creating ambiance. It will be interesting to see what results. And if, as I hope happens, Han and Ayashe are right, and creators who are not necessarily into Steampunk rise to the challenge.

 

I'm planning on mixing steampunk with a little horror .. the hard part is going to be how do I make it somehow relevant to Catznip.

If I end up making a crate that says "viewer code" covered in hot glue and craft store brass gears, might be I need some kind of intervention.

[Madelaine McMasters]

Disclaimer: I have no idea what I'm talking about here, but I've got the laptop open in the kitchen and my oven is warming up.

I've yet to see a Steampunk scene that didn't contain more than a hint of Victorian England, as all the images in this thread show. There's a very good reason for that. James Watt's steam engine was invented there, and British Colonialism rapidly spread steam power, initially in the forum of trains and ships, across the globe. All of those trains and ships were introduced by people wearing Victorian fashion.

Few people are actively aware of that history. Though the steam age is part of every modern culture's lore, that lore is local. The earliest movies in any industrialized culture are rife with images of steam power and the local fashion of that time. Young Japanese searching for nostalgia on film will see steam power everywhere, but probably won't know that the first locomotive their society ever saw as an "Iron Duke" from Britain. The same is true on every continent. Steam power was like nothing that came before it and it propelled us into the Industrial Revolution. Nobody here in SL escaped that.

While history buffs might see Steampunk as Eurocentric, I imagine many enthusiasts understand it as just trendy retro-futurism. That's universally appealing because we're wired to notice juxtaposition and to ponder the "what ifs". If we think SLB 19 as a celebration of retro-futurism, does that seem more inclusive? Personally, I like pushing retro-futurism back a hell of a lot further, all the way to the Flintstones. But, that's harder to depict in SL, which favors the static, the geometric, the symmetric. So, we're left sticking gears and goggles on everything and calling our retro-futurism "Steampunk".

I think I find Steampunk more inclusive than Scylla's "Crystals" (if I understand her use of the term correctly). Though crystals are amenable to depiction in SL, the supernatural power of crystals only exists for those who believe in the supernatural power of crystals. Steam power exists for everyone.

[Cinos Field]

While I might kind of agree, the 16th birthday theme was "the (implicitly American) 50s" which was insanely niche already. Even if not for the American slant to it, I was about -30 years old at that time and have zero connection to any 50s stuff. At least Steampunk is a mildly popular aesthetic!

And then there was that "crystal" non-theme.

 

[Orwar]

2 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

While history buffs might see Steampunk as Eurocentric, I imagine many enthusiasts understand it as just trendy retro-futurism.

   The problem with that explanation is that Steampunk isn't an accurate retelling of history, it's retro-futuristic science fiction which focuses on the 'age of steam', and yes, that historically started in Britain (although if I'm to be nit-picky again, James Watts didn't invent the steam engine, the ancient Greeks knew that steam = pressure = power, but they didn't find any practical applications for it like the British did centuries later - in fact James Watts didn't invent the modern era steam engine either; steam engines were used for powering drainage pumps throughout the 18th century and roughly half the 17th century, James Watt's inventions included pieces which made the engines much more effective, such as the Centrifugal Governor, invented in 1744 - a piece of tech we still use to this day. Also, James Watt died in 1819, the Victorian era doesn't begin until 1838, so he was not 'Victorian'). 

   .. That's one big parenthesis. Anyway, yes, Steampunk is a form of science fiction, it does not by any means have to include Britain or British culture or any of the political or religious beliefs of the British of the time; there's Steampunk fiction set in ancient Egypt wherein the power of steam was harnessed to build even more and bigger pyramids and temples (with cogs on 'em!). The claim that Steampunk must include any British/Victorian stuff, or at all even be set on our own planet, is as ludicrous as claiming that any fiction featuring a bicycle must be set in Scotland. 

Edited March 19, 2022 by Orwar

[Orwar]

   Whoopsie.

Edited March 19, 2022 by Orwar
I did a missclick.