Coders don't understand what builders want.

[Tama Suki]

I am absolutely sure of one thing.
Coders don't understand what builders want.
Yet they should be aware that their role is fundamental.
It would also be time for someone to resolve this situation in SL.
I mean! There is a crazy movement out there, but it seems that this kind of collaboration between creatives is not going to work in SL.

[Rolig Loon]

Scripts can do many sorts of things and builders can create a wide variety of things that need scripts.  Can you be a bit more specific about what you think is missing?  What situation needs to be resolved?

[Tama Suki]

no

[Rolig Loon]

Oh, OK. I have been scripting in SL for a rather long time and have worked with quite a few builders, but I couldn't think of anything either. In my experience, builders and scripters usually have a pretty good working relationship and are able to adapt each other's work to create a product that satisfies them both. I can't speak for the scripters and builders who create their things independently, because I have almost always done custom work as part of a team. That's why I wondered if you had a specific situation in mind.

[LittleMe Jewell]

26 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

I am absolutely sure of one thing.
Coders don't understand what builders want.
Yet they should be aware that their role is fundamental.
It would also be time for someone to resolve this situation in SL.
I mean! There is a crazy movement out there, but it seems that this kind of collaboration between creatives is not going to work in SL.

Without any sort of specifics, nobody has a clue what you are actually referring to.  Without some sort of details, it sounds like just a general whine.

[Tama Suki]

Sorry but I'm not asking for help with anything. If I wanted to ask for help regarding some scripts I would have written a post in the dedicated forum.

[LilNosferatu]

Without any sort of direction, I'm not sure what kind of discussion you were looking for on the topic.

[Tama Suki]

Just now, LilNosferatu said:

Without any sort of direction, I'm not sure what kind of discussion you were looking for on the topic.

 

Sorry but I'm not asking for help with anything. If I wanted to ask for help regarding some scripts I would have written a post in the dedicated forum.

[Rolig Loon]

1 minute ago, Tama Suki said:

Sorry but I'm not asking for help with anything.

It's a bit hard to know what to discuss, then.  Your post said that

34 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

Coders don't understand what builders want.

so I wondered if you had perhaps had some experience that would lead you to that conclusion. As I said, I'm not aware of any myself, but I would be curious to know about them.  Otherwise,

11 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

It would also be time for someone to resolve this situation in SL.

it's a little hard to resolve a situation without knowing what the situation is.

[Tama Suki]

2 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

It's a bit hard to know what to discuss, then.  Your post said that

I no longer have the strength to respond to answers that have nothing to do with what I wrote.
Good night.

[Maryanne Solo]

[Rolig Loon]

4 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

I no longer have the strength to respond to answers that have nothing to do with what I wrote.
Good night.

Good night.  When you figure out what you want, please come back and continue.

[Ceka Cianci]

Many times, builders are scriptors as well..

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

I sort of agree to a point with the OP's premise, often a person makes something and then asks for a script to animate it, and you find that things like the inherent rotations of certain parts are going to give the script a headache, but in suggesting that they alter a couple of things you get a flat no as the response.

The sort of issue I have in mind is where the root prim has a non-zero rotations when the object is in it's default orientation and it would be so much easier if there was either a different root, or the root was somehow rebuilt to have a zero rotation.

 

[Mollymews]

30 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

I am absolutely sure of one thing.
Coders don't understand what builders want.
Yet they should be aware that their role is fundamental.
It would also be time for someone to resolve this situation in SL.
I mean! There is a crazy movement out there, but it seems that this kind of collaboration between creatives is not going to work in SL.

if we can envisage what we want then we can write it down

when a builder can write down in their natural language what it is they want their build to do then it can be translated to another language, which can be a computer language

builders engaging other tradespeople on work-for-hire contracts must be able write down exactly what is required for the product

and on receiving the requirements the work-for-hire scripter (same as any other trades person involved, texturers, sound engineers, model makers, animators, etc) can apply their knowledge and skill set to realise their contribution to the product according to the requirements

writing down what is envisaged for the product is not hard. Is the same difficulty as writing a shopping list

 

[Tama Suki]

2 minutes ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

I sort of agree to a point with the OP's premise, often a person makes something and then asks for a script to animate it, and you find that things like the inherent rotations of certain parts are going to give the script a headache, but in suggesting that they alter a couple of things you get a flat no as the response.

The sort of issue I have in mind is where the root prim has a non-zero rotations when the object is in it's default orientation and it would be so much easier if there was either a different root, or the root was somehow rebuilt to have a zero rotation.

 

A NO is always better than wasting time both of you talking about something that won't do any good.
I agree.

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

1 minute ago, Mollymews said:

Is the same difficulty as writing a shopping list

My partner writes shopping lists, leaves them at home, then berates me for not reminder her to remember to take them with her.

Some times I think people like to raise hell just because it's better than not raising hell.

[Rolig Loon]

1 minute ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

I sort of agree to a point with the OP's premise, often a person makes something and then asks for a script to animate it, and you find that things like the inherent rotations of certain parts are going to give the script a headache, but in suggesting that they alter a couple of things you get a flat no as the response.

The sort of issue I have in mind is where the root prim has a non-zero rotations when the object is in it's default orientation and it would be so much easier if there was either a different root, or the root was somehow rebuilt to have a zero rotation.

Yeah, I agree that would be a tricky situation. In my own experience, the modelers I have worked with generally understand that odd orientations will be a headache all around so they avoid them as much as scripters do. So far, I haven't run up against a modeler who wasn't willing to work together with me to work thorough unexpected problems or, better yet, work with me early enough in the design phase to avoid them in the first place.  I suspect the sort of situation you describe is most likely to be a problem when a modeler who is new to SL goes looking for a scripter after her model is completely built. That's never happened to me, but I can see it could generate a little tension.  I wonder how common that is?

[Tama Suki]

7 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

if we can envisage what we want then we can write it down

when a builder can write down in their natural language what it is they want their build to do then it can be translated to another language, which can be a computer language

builders engaging other tradespeople on work-for-hire contracts must be able write down exactly what is required for the product

and on receiving the requirements the work-for-hire scripter (same as any other trades person involved, texturers, sound engineers, model makers, animators, etc) can apply their knowledge and skill set to realise their contribution to the product according to the requirements

writing down what is envisaged for the product is not hard. Is the same difficulty as writing a shopping list

 

You know man, today I tracked down and met about 6 coders to help me on one thing and more or less everyone wanted to introduce me to the science of programming.
I made it clear that I don't give a damn about learning programming but I just wanted them to make something work the way I wanted and that I wanted to pay them for the service.
Zero result. A couple even started talking to me about philosophy. At that point I just wanted to log off and come back with my alt troll full of hud to smash their avatar but I held back.

As for what you said, I'd like it to work like that. But apparently in SL there is still a huge anarchy even if you try to propose yourself professionally.

[Talon Brown]

I'm pretty sure the coders aren't the problem here.

[Tama Suki]

5 minutes ago, Talon Brown said:

I'm pretty sure the coders aren't the problem here.

Tell that to those innocent noobs who get scrambled by some hud in random sandbox.

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, Tama Suki said:

not going to work in SL

18 years of it working means nothing?

 

8 minutes ago, Tama Suki said:

come back with my alt troll full of hud to smash their avatar

 

1 minute ago, Tama Suki said:

Tell that to those innocent noobs who get scrambled by some hud in random sandbox.

 

[Rowan Amore]

What's confusing?  It's not the scripts that are the problem but the people who use them wrongly.  

[Silent Mistwalker]

This is where I get off the bus.

*plonk!*

[Rolig Loon]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

What's confusing?  It's not the scripts that are the problem but the people who use them wrongly.

Oh, it could as easily be the other way around. As a scripter, I can't write a custom script in a vacuum.  If a modeler or owner can't tell me how something is supposed to work, I can easily write a script that doesn't met expectations.  Then we have to work together to understand whether it's better to modify the script or to modify the model.  If a project is complicated enough, the builder and the scripter both need to be willing to adjust as they find unforeseen challenges. Again, in my experience, that's usually what happens but I can imagine that things could be rocky if either the builder or the scripter was new to SL.