Chroma Starlight Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 11 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: I couldn't care less what he spends his money on. Let's not forget..a tax write off but still... Another cause that got outsize attention from billionaire philanthropists: Climate change. Jeff Bezos topped the list by donating $10 billion to launch the Bezos Earth Fund. Bezos, who last week announced he was stepping down as Amazon CEO to devote more time to philanthropy and other projects, also contributed $100 million to Feeding America, the organization that supplies more than 200 food banks. Yeah, it's like Bill Gates. This idea that they should skim all the milk, honey, and fat from our world for themselves and then late in life use those ill-gotten gains to try and whitewash their reputations with far-too-late far-too-little restorative actions, little nods at the world that would have existed if only they hadn't contributed directly and so grievously to its present inequity. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Bree Giffen said: Elon Musk wants a manned colony on Mars. Why on earth would anyone in their right mind want to be stuck on Mars in a colony owned and run by Elon Musk? No matter how bad the climate crisis, covid or anything else gets, there are some fates worse than death, to my mind. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chroma Starlight Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said: Why on earth would anyone in their right mind want to be stuck on Mars in a colony owned and run by Elon Musk? No matter how bad the climate crisis, covid or anything else gets, there are some fates worse than death, to my mind. As I keep saying, it'd be 1000x easier to just found a colony on the hard rocks of Antarctica somewhere, or in an underground city built under a mountain range, than it would be to Colonize Mars, and they'd offer far more space, comfort, and amenities, much closer contact with our garden of life, Earth, than anything so distant. Nobody has actually put a human being into a microgravity environment like the Moon or Mars for a sustained period of time to see what happens. Japan built an ISS module for that, but it got defunded, along with the Advanced Life Support research they were doing in Texas on biological life support in closed-loop systems (complete with months-long inhabited trials. I used to read their blogs, along with Antarctic research blogs, back in the mid-2000s.) Until you deal with the political reality that these dreams are constantly under attack by the hard right, I don't see how these ideas will ever make it off the ground and over there to Mars. Edited July 21, 2021 by Chroma Starlight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said: Why on earth would anyone in their right mind want to be stuck on Mars in a colony owned and run by Elon Musk? No matter how bad the climate crisis, covid or anything else gets, there are some fates worse than death, to my mind. He wants to colonize the moon also.. I couldn't imagine who in their right mind would volunteer to live on mars.. It's so dang far away.. Plus, I've seen too many space horror movies where one guy loses it and you never find out who it is until there is just the two people left.. hehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bree Giffen Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Innula Zenovka said: Why on earth would anyone in their right mind want to be stuck on Mars in a colony owned and run by Elon Musk? No matter how bad the climate crisis, covid or anything else gets, there are some fates worse than death, to my mind. Elon said a lot of people will die on the way there, die on Mars, maybe not even get back to Earth. Wouldn't you want to be the first Martian buried on Mars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayeleeon Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, Chroma Starlight said: Until you deal with the political reality that these dreams are constantly under attack by the hard right, These dreams are not under attack by the hard right. The public funding of the research is under attack by fiscal conservatives. No reason that those with money to pay for it shouldn't be doing it. When you say there are better things to spend their money on, well that would apply to tax dollars as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said: Elon said a lot of people will die on the way there, die on Mars, maybe not even get back to Earth. Wouldn't you want to be the first Martian buried on Mars? I would far prefer that honour to go to Elon Musk himself. He so richly deserves it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 This is one of my favorite Niel Degrasse Tyson videos.. Mainly because he is so hopped up.. When he finally gets rolling about the birth of NASA and why we went to the moon, he is so into it.. hehehe 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 35 minutes ago, Chroma Starlight said: Yeah, it's like Bill Gates. This idea that they should skim all the milk, honey, and fat from our world for themselves and then late in life use those ill-gotten gains to try and whitewash their reputations with far-too-late far-too-little restorative actions, little nods at the world that would have existed if only they hadn't contributed directly and so grievously to its present inequity. The uber wealthy have almost always achieved their wealth on the backs of the common people. It was, is and always will be so. We all assume we wouldn't do the same in their situation but the reality is...we'll more than likely never know. Money can corrupt even the most noble. Power can corrupt. Beauty can corrupt. It's part of humanity, sadly. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moondira Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: It was, is and always will be so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moondira Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 21 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said: This is one of my favorite Niel Degrasse Tyson videos.. Mainly because he is so hopped up.. When he finally gets rolling about the birth of NASA and why we went to the moon, he is so into it.. hehehe I had to lower the volume on that one. My cats headed for the hills 😁 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelindaN Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/sanders-warren-aoc-bezos-spaceflight-b1887982.html?amp=&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=upday Hopefully this link will open outside the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Majority of the wealthy became that way because they offered a better product or service that we were willing to hand them our money for. If we are going to begrudge them that, then simply stop buying from them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyssa Greymoon Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Well thank goodness we have Jeff Bezos to (re)invent 60-ish year old rocket technology. Now people with more money than sense can fly not quite as fast, far or high as Ham the monkey in 1961. Elon Musk isn't going to be colonizing Mars because he can't afford it. That's the kind of thing only the largest countries can even think about. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moondira Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said: Majority of the wealthy became that way because they offered a better product or service that we were willing to hand them our money for. If we are going to begrudge them that, then simply stop buying from them. Disagree. The majority of the wealthy developed a monopoly via ties to those in power, and then passed on that wealth to their offspring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayeleeon Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, Moondira said: Disagree. The majority of the wealthy developed a monopoly via ties to those in power, and then passed on that wealth to their offspring. Why should they develop the new technology in the first place if they are not allowed to profit from it. Do you think somehow it would be more fair to expect someone to invest thier time and money into developing a product, and then let others who have invested nothing into its development make the money off it? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Moondira said: Disagree. The majority of the wealthy developed a monopoly via ties to those in power, and then passed on that wealth to their offspring. Possibly in general (though I'm not sure what we're calculating here -- "the majority of the wealthy" means … well, what does it mean?) but that's certainly not the case of Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos or Richard Branson, none of whom inherited their money (and nor to they owe their current fortunes to their "ties with those in power"). Neither, come to that, is it true in any respect of George Soros. Edited July 21, 2021 by Innula Zenovka 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, Moondira said: Disagree. The majority of the wealthy developed a monopoly via ties to those in power, and then passed on that wealth to their offspring. Then again that is what you get with copyrights, trademarks etc. It was a system put in place to promote people putting the time and effort into developing things for the betterment of society as a whole. In any other context I am sure that most are all in support of those things that give those people a monopoly through copyrights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moondira Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Innula Zenovka said: 10 minutes ago, Moondira said: Disagree. The majority of the wealthy developed a monopoly via ties to those in power, and then passed on that wealth to their offspring. Possibly in general (though I'm not sure what we're calculating here -- "the majority of the wealthy" means … well, what does it mean?) but that's certainly not the case of Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos or Richard Branson, none of whom inherited their money (and nor to they owe their current fortunes to their "ties with those in power"). Neither, come to that, is it true of George Soros. True, there are some who did not inherit their wealth. Not sure of the percentage who did. I would have to add though, that it is the exploitation of the worker-bees that allow their wealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayeleeon Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said: "ties with those in power" I suspect, that what is meant by these ties, is such things as patent protection, as if this was a favor granted to the rich, which has no benefit to society at large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moondira Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: 23 minutes ago, Moondira said: Disagree. The majority of the wealthy developed a monopoly via ties to those in power, and then passed on that wealth to their offspring. Then again that is what you get with copyrights, trademarks etc. It was a system put in place to promote people putting the time and effort into developing things for the betterment of society as a whole. In any other context I am sure that most are all in support of those things that give those people a monopoly through copyrights. Lots of people put in the time and effort into developing things for the betterment of society as a whole though. Teachers come to mind, and in many cases they are paid very little and work much harder than a CEO. I've read some articles about college level teachers who even have to live in their cars as they can't afford rent. The problem is that we allow members of society to take more than they should. Last time I checked between a fourth and a third of children in the States don't know where their next meal is coming from, and many go to bed hungry each night. If we paid their parents more this wouldn't be happening. Edited July 21, 2021 by Moondira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moondira Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 From studying other countries we often see that wealth disparity is often a precursor to collapse. The disparity in the U.S. is large and steadily growing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayeleeon Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, Moondira said: It is the exploitation of the worker-bees that allow their wealth. Ironic that someone on a personal computer, connected to the internet and the power grid, who no doubt is well fed with food from a grocery store, and had access to reliable transportation plus other comforts of modern life, would be so hard on the people who made those comforts possible. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, Moondira said: True, there are some who did not inherit their wealth. Not sure of the percentage who did. I would have to add though, that it is the exploitation of the worker-bees that allow their wealth. I would have said that it's mostly simple good fortune, whether that's the good fortune of having inherited valuable assets from their parents, or of having formed a company the value of which subsequently became huge, or (like Soros and many more of the super rich) of gambling huge sums of their own and their clients' money and making more good bets than bad ones. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moondira Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Ayeleeon said: 12 minutes ago, Moondira said: It is the exploitation of the worker-bees that allow their wealth. Ironic that someone on a personal computer, connected to the internet and the power grid, who no doubt is well fed with food from a grocery store, and had access to reliable transportation plus other comforts of modern life, would be so hard on the people who made those comforts possible. My life situation is beside the point, and this is also an ignorant way to frame your argument. I champion the poor and dispossessed in our world who deserve better. A minimum wage would be a start, yet the wealthy have frequently opposed providing a living wage to large segments of our population. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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