Try Out the New Inworld Search

[TatianaDokuchic Varriale]

@ Toy

I've heard other people say that they only get G rated items on that link but for some reason I get M & A as well.

ETA: Yes, I was logged into my dashboard when I tried it so that's probably why.

Here is another spot to try: http://vip.search-phx.secondlife.com/

[Toysoldier Thor]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

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Ciaran Laval wrote:

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Phil Deakins wrote:

I have tried it out (V2) - more than once - and, by comparison to the V1, it's crap.

Have they fixed the camera controls display yet? The last I heard, they hadn't done it, and I don't think they ever will - because they don't give a damn about users.

---

Pan and orbit are on different tabs and the controls are much better than when it was first released.

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It's the large size of the cam control's display that was always too big, PLUS, and this is very important, it's the lack of semi-transparency when not in focus too. Many people, including me, use the cam controls extensively, and we have them permanently on display. The V1 controls never got in the way because they were designed with users in mind - small and unobtrusive - but the V2 controls were designed for their looks and not for users. Has there been any progress along those lines? From what you said, it sounds like it's got worse instead of better.

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Thats funny Phil that you mention the horrid V2 Cam controls.  It was one of the top reasons I abandoned V2 when I first gave it a try... and from what Ciaran just said... they have not fixed it.  When they separated the PAN and ANGLE Zoom... that was pretty much a show stopper.  It made what was a great control into an utterly useless function.

AND I use PAN ZOOM ANGLE ... ALLLL THEEE TIME!!!  So I will never return.

[Phil Deakins]

The V2 has a couple of excellent features but there are so many things wrong with it that make so very bad. The cam controls display was the biggest single fault with it for me too and, until they sort it out, I won't use it. The trouble is they won't sort it out regardless of what users say, because they are not interested in actual users - except their money.

The people who designed the V1 knew what they were doing (they had it up top, as we say) and they designed it to actually be used by people. But those who designed, and continue to design, the V2 didn't design it for users at all. Instead they designed it for looks, pure and simple. They have no concept of useability. In other words, they don't know what they're doing. They certainly don't have the wherewithal for good design. At least the decision makers don't.

So I have no interest whatsoever in whatever they bring out for the V2 - not until they at least fix the camera controls, so that the viewer has at least some semblance of useability. It's odd that wotsisname blogged about useability today (or yesterday). I wonder where he gets his definition of it from

[Medhue Simoni]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

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Ciaran Laval wrote:

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

I have tried it out (V2) - more than once - and, by comparison to the V1, it's crap.

Have they fixed the camera controls display yet? The last I heard, they hadn't done it, and I don't think they ever will - because they don't give a damn about users.

---

Pan and orbit are on different tabs and the controls are much better than when it was first released.

---

It's the large size of the cam control's display that was always too big, PLUS, and this is very important, it's the lack of semi-transparency when not in focus too. Many people, including me, use the cam controls extensively, and we have them permanently on display. The V1 controls never got in the way because they were designed with users in mind - small and unobtrusive - but the V2 controls were designed for their looks and not for users. Has there been any progress along those lines? From what you said, it sounds like it's got worse instead of better.

---

Ditto!!! It is impossible for me not to have the camera controls up all the time. It does not matter to me what I'm doing, I'm constantly camming. I have no place to put the dang thing tho, and it is sooo dang huge. And transparency, OMG, some1 else needs to take control over how all that works, cause it makes no fricken sense. The camera control won't go trans, but our Edit windows go trans no matter what you are doing.

Sorry, off topic, I just had to rant for a second.

[Medhue Simoni]

Now, to be on topic.

 

Last year I created a small cinema, and I put the word animation in it because some of the videos are animated films. Despite the word only appearing in the name, this parcel got ranked in the top 15 or so places for the word animation. I have since removed the word from the title.

Oh, and also notice how there is not 1 place in these results that are part of the Destination Guide. So basically, all the "legit" places were some how left out of the top spots despite having huge stores and obviously thousands of animations.

 

[Arwen Serpente]

I'm logged into my dashboard too and can search G/M/A on the Beta. 

Question: I don't use V2....did traffic numbers bite the dust in V2? or is that something new in the NEW Search Beta? or am I just not seeing them anymore?

[Cerise Sorbet]

 

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Arwen Serpente wrote:

I'm logged into my dashboard too and can search G/M/A on the Beta. 

Question: I don't use V2....did traffic numbers bite the dust in V2? or is that something new in the NEW Search Beta? or am I just not seeing them anymore?

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"Old" V2 search can display the traffic but only in the Places view, not the combined one. There is a sort column for it, but it is strange, the first click sorts traffic lowest first, then highest first on the second.

[Ai Velde]

 

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Phil Deakins wrote:

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Ai Velde wrote:

I'd understand if V2 holds a knife to your throat and threatens to decapitate your mother, but why can't you test it out?

I know some of you are very hard to please but it wouldn't hurt you to at least give it a shot

---

I have tried it out (V2) - more than once - and, by comparison to the V1, it's crap.

Have they fixed the camera controls display yet? The last I heard, they hadn't done it, and I don't think they ever will - because they don't give a damn about users.

---

Um...? Okay? But I wasn't starting a discussion anywhere relating to the userfriendly or unuserfriendly interface of V2? I was saying how it won't slit your mothers' throat and threaten to eat your dog if you use it for 5 minutes to try the new search. lol. wth

[Toysoldier Thor]

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Ai Velde wrote:

 

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Phil Deakins wrote:

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Ai Velde wrote:

I'd understand if V2 holds a knife to your throat and threatens to decapitate your mother, but why can't you test it out?

I know some of you are very hard to please but it wouldn't hurt you to at least give it a shot

---

I have tried it out (V2) - more than once - and, by comparison to the V1, it's crap.

Have they fixed the camera controls display yet? The last I heard, they hadn't done it, and I don't think they ever will - because they don't give a damn about users.

---

Um...? Okay? But I wasn't starting a discussion anywhere relating to the userfriendly or unuserfriendly interface of V2? I was saying how it won't slit your mothers' throat and threaten to eat your dog if you use it for 5 minutes to try the new search. lol. wth

---

No it wont hurt my mom nor eat a dog i do not have.  But I am not going spend 10 minutes installing LL SL V2 to test a search feature on a viewer have no intention to use anyway.  It will take me about 15 minutes to 1/2 hour to re-orient myself to where the heck all the V2 features, buttons, dashboard, etc. are on V2. ... all this just to see how new search will work for those that are V2 users? ??

uhmmm? Ok???  How bout NO.  Waste of my time and even if I didnt like it... LL wont listen or make changes based on my opinions. lol... they rarely have and unless you are a FIC / CheerLeader of LL who LL will listen to... waste of time.

Again... call me when current or new Phoenix decides to incorporate new Search.  The bugs will likely be worked out by then.

[Phil Deakins]

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Ai Velde wrote:

 

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Phil Deakins wrote:

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Ai Velde wrote:

I'd understand if V2 holds a knife to your throat and threatens to decapitate your mother, but why can't you test it out?

I know some of you are very hard to please but it wouldn't hurt you to at least give it a shot

---

I have tried it out (V2) - more than once - and, by comparison to the V1, it's crap.

Have they fixed the camera controls display yet? The last I heard, they hadn't done it, and I don't think they ever will - because they don't give a damn about users.

---

Um...? Okay? But I wasn't starting a discussion anywhere relating to the userfriendly or unuserfriendly interface of V2? I was saying how it won't slit your mothers' throat and threaten to eat your dog if you use it for 5 minutes to try the new search. lol. wth

---

In the part of your post that I quoted, you will see that you twice suggested trying it out. That's why I quoted that part of your post. If you re-read my response in light of that, you'll understand that what I wrote was nothing to do with your mothers and dogs comment.. The very first line of my response was, "I have tried it out (V2) - more than once - and, by comparison to the V1, it's crap." I would have thought it was clear enough.

[Ai Velde]

 

 

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Phil Deakins wrote:

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Ai Velde wrote:

 

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

---

Ai Velde wrote:

I'd understand if V2 holds a knife to your throat and threatens to decapitate your mother, but why can't you test it out?

I know some of you are very hard to please but it wouldn't hurt you to at least give it a shot

---

I have tried it out (V2) - more than once - and, by comparison to the V1, it's crap.

Have they fixed the camera controls display yet? The last I heard, they hadn't done it, and I don't think they ever will - because they don't give a damn about users.

---

Um...? Okay? But I wasn't starting a discussion anywhere relating to the userfriendly or unuserfriendly interface of V2? I was saying how it won't slit your mothers' throat and threaten to eat your dog if you use it for 5 minutes to try the new search. lol. wth

---

In the part of your post that I quoted, you will see that you twice suggested trying it out. That's why I quoted that part of your post. If you re-read my response in light of that, you'll understand that what I wrote was nothing to do with your mothers and dogs comment.. The very first line of my response was, "

I have tried it out (V2) - more than once

- and, by comparison to the V1, it's crap

." I would have thought it was clear enough.

---

 

No no no, you misunderstood what I was suggesting be tried. I suggested to try out the new search. I don't care if people use or like V2. I don't use it myself, but I'm not so stubborn I won't try the new search that can only be accessed at present on V2 (which means people would have to use it for 5 minutes). Refusing to even try the new search because it is on V2 was where my post was aimed. Not people trying V2, because I don't care if people like V2 or use it ever. This was for the sake of the new search. =)

[Phil Deakins]

You actually criticised some of the posts in this thread in your very first line. Later in the post you suggested trying it - twice. Perhaps you did mean to try the search but my response to those suggestions was perfectly clear in my very first line. However, your response to that showed that you didn't understand what I wrote. It doesn't matter though.

[Ai Velde]

*pats* We'll agree it was a misunderstanding, then.

[Ciaran Laval]

 

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Toysoldier Thor wrote:

Thats funny Phil that you mention the horrid V2 Cam controls.  It was one of the top reasons I abandoned V2 when I first gave it a try... and from what Ciaran just said... they have not fixed it.  When they separated the PAN and ANGLE Zoom... that was pretty much a show stopper.  It made what was a great control into an utterly useless function.

AND I use PAN ZOOM ANGLE ... ALLLL THEEE TIME!!!  So I will never return.

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Sorry, I don't think I've explained this well. When it was first released you could pan or prbit, you had to keep switching from one to the other, now they're side by side like viewer 1.

[LuckyCreations1488303085]

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Ai Velde wrote:

No no no, you misunderstood

what

I was suggesting be tried. I suggested to

try out the new search.

I don't care if people use or like V2. I don't use it myself, but I'm not so stubborn I won't

try the new search

that can

only

be accessed at present on V2 (which means people would have to use it for 5 minutes). Refusing to even

try the new search

because it is on V2 was where my post was aimed. Not people trying V2, because I don't care if people like

V2

or use it ever. This was for the sake of the new search. =)

---

OMG I totally agree with you... I am getting tired of everyone complaining about all of these things wrong with V2, and then when LL does something to try and fix it, they don't even want to try it out. Seriously, 5 minutes is not that long to test it out and see if it is better or not. If you still don't like it after that, then don't use it. But right now, the only way to test it is to use V2. If you don't test it, then there is a high possiblility that you won't like it when it is implemented, and then you will still be complaining because you didn't take that 5 minutes to test it out, and provide feedback about the search.

 

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   Toysoldier Thor wrote:

And I wont be asking Phoenix anything.

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Well, if you don't want to ask the Phoenix team anything, then I personally don't see how anyone can help you... LL doesn't support Phoenix, the Phoenix team does. And right now, the search beta is limited to V2, so if you are seriously that stubborn as to not test it out on V2, then you will most likely be disappointed if you don't get what you wanted when it is released because you didn't take that 5 mintues to test it out and voice your opinion on what should and shouldn't be changed.

 

 

__________________

Sorry if I seem to be coming off as rude, but this is a subject that annoys me so much. All of this complaining about V2, and then when something everyone has been complaining about is being tested, you still complain about it. At this point, I don't think anything will please you.

[Phil Deakins]

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LuckyCreations wrote:

OMG I totally agree with you... I am getting tired of everyone complaining about all of these things wrong with V2, and then when LL does something to try and fix it, they don't even want to try it out. Seriously,

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You can get get as tired you like but you've got it wrong. LL hasn't done anything to try and fix the V2. and, until they do, there is no point in testing it, is there? The search system is in the V2 but it isn't the V2. Many people complain about the various searches - V1, V2 and Marketplace - but they don't hate the V2 because of it. If they did, they'd also hate the V1.

Incidentally, you said it yourself - "I am getting tired of everyone complaining about all of these things wrong with V2". If everyone is is complaining about something, it's not exactly a leap of faith to realise that there's something seriously woring with it, and that it's you who is out of step with general opinion. But do feel free to get as tired as you like

 

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LuckyCreations wrote:

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   Toysoldier Thor wrote:

And I wont be asking Phoenix anything.

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Well, if you don't want to ask the Phoenix team anything, then I personally don't see how anyone can help you..

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I can't speak for Toysoldier but I wasn't aware that he was asking for anyone's help. Where did you get that idea from?

[Toysoldier Thor]

I wasnt asking for continued help - although it was nice that tatiana provided me the link the basic limited Beta web site to the new search and I i tried the limited features that it had.  But without the V2 it seems the beta site is limited to GENERAL so that pretty much ended my quick look.

I wasnt looking for help - I just was making a statement that since LL was "trying" to fix the long standing disaster of inworld search for only V2 viewers... I have little interest in how well the new search will work for ME.  As long as when some time in the future a better version of inworld search for ALL VIEWERS will make it easier for my customers to find my store and products and shift their buying habbits to buy more from inworld than my SLM.

From the little I saw, I dont think this new search will help but moreso because most SL residents that are shopping for products have long since given up finding products via inworld search.  And that the new search does not even have a major search category of SEARCH FOR INWORLD MARKETPLACE ITEMS is a telling sign that this will continue to make inworld search a poor alternative to SLM Search when looking for products inworld.

[Georg Stonewall]

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Toysoldier Thor wrote:

I wasnt asking for continued help - although it was nice that tatiana provided me the link the basic limited Beta web site to the new search and I i tried the limited features that it had.  But without the V2 it seems the beta site is limited to GENERAL so that pretty much ended my quick look.

I wasnt looking for help - I just was making a statement that since LL was "trying" to fix the long standing disaster of inworld search for only V2 viewers... I have little interest in how well the new search will work for ME.  As long as when some time in the future a better version of inworld search for ALL VIEWERS will make it easier for my customers to find my store and products and shift their buying habbits to buy more from inworld than my SLM.

From the little I saw, I dont think this new search will help but moreso because most SL residents that are shopping for products have long since given up finding products via inworld search.  And that the new search does not even have a major search category of SEARCH FOR INWORLD MARKETPLACE ITEMS is a telling sign that this will continue to make inworld search a poor alternative to SLM Search when looking for products inworld.

---

I wonder where you get your knowledge from. We do surveys from time to time and many people are coming to our shop over the inworld search. And beside that you should read the other posts, I told you I found your shop without problems in the beta search.

[Phil Deakins]

I've no doubt that you know all this but I'll say it anyway.

LL won't make any changes at all for the V1 viewer. In spite of the near total opposition to the V2, they pressed on with it, and continue to do so, presumably because they are too proud to admit that they got something wrong. It's nothing new though. Look at how they got out of the homestead fiasco. After Lindens telling people that it's ok to do certain things with homesteads and that those things are what homesteads are for, which caused those people to buy homesteads and do those things with them, LL found that they'd got it wrong so they changed the homestead game, saying that it's people's fault for doing those very things - and they cost some people a lot of real money in the process. My view is that LL knows that, in time, people in general will be fine with the V2, because the population continually turns over, so more and more people will only know the V2 and LL doesn't need to scrap it. Then they will claim its popularity, of course.

Also, they won't lift a finger to help SL commerce - that's SL commerce - not website (marketplace) commerce - because they have a financial interest in shopping going more and more to their website mall (the marketplace) and less and less going to actual SL stores. So they won't be adding anything to search about inworld shopping. People often point out that it's causing more and more land to be abandoned, so LL gets less and less tier, but, although the decisionmakers in LL often show a degree of stupidity, they are not stupid enough not to know all about that. Presumably they've done the sums, and they've decided that LL will make more money from their website mall than from the lost tier. That's why they plug and push their mall everywhere they can, at the literal expense of their own paying customers who have SL stores. For some time, half of the login page welcomed not "users", but "Marketplace users". It's all so unscrupulous when they are taking monthly real money from SL store owners. But then they are not known for their scruples.

[Cerise Sorbet]

Hi, I posted this before but in the other search thread. There is already at least one Snowglobe based TPV that can handle the new search, the 1.26.0.4 version of Cool VL Viewer. With the patch already out there, it should be pretty easy for the other 1.x TPVs to add it too, well before this beta search becomes the main one.

[Toysoldier Thor]

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Georg Stonewall wrote:

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Toysoldier Thor wrote:

I wasnt asking for continued help - although it was nice that tatiana provided me the link the basic limited Beta web site to the new search and I i tried the limited features that it had.  But without the V2 it seems the beta site is limited to GENERAL so that pretty much ended my quick look.

I wasnt looking for help - I just was making a statement that since LL was "trying" to fix the long standing disaster of inworld search for only V2 viewers... I have little interest in how well the new search will work for ME.  As long as when some time in the future a better version of inworld search for ALL VIEWERS will make it easier for my customers to find my store and products and shift their buying habbits to buy more from inworld than my SLM.

From the little I saw, I dont think this new search will help but moreso because most SL residents that are shopping for products have long since given up finding products via inworld search.  And that the new search does not even have a major search category of SEARCH FOR INWORLD MARKETPLACE ITEMS is a telling sign that this will continue to make inworld search a poor alternative to SLM Search when looking for products inworld.

---

I wonder where you get your knowledge from. We do surveys from time to time and many people are coming to our shop over the inworld search. And beside that you should read the other posts, I told you I found your shop without problems in the beta search.

---

1)  I am glad your survey of your customers happen to find YOUR store via inworld search.  I guess that means the only knowledge that is valid is YOUR survey?  My customers mostly find MY inworld store via SLM Search.  Also, most of my sales are from SLM.

2)  I read your post.  I dont know what you used to find my store on the new beta search (if you were using it via the V2 viewer).  I tested via the Beta Website that Tatiana pointed out.  I will actually even provide the actual link where I tested searches to try to find my inworld store...

http://search-beta.secondlife.com/

In the current production inworld search, I can find my store as a result if I use search terms like "landscape sculpty" etc.  More importantly, my classified would show up on the sidebar of the search results.  In this new BETA search, which I will say again I can only search "G" type results, my store did not show up when I typed "Landscape Sculpties" "Toys Tickle Trunk" "toys landscape store"...  These last two queries are pretty much the name of my store exactly.  ZERO RESULTS.

So yes Georg... I read your post.... both had no relevance.  Your survey means nothing to my operation and your search results did not work when I tested them.

 

 

[Chelsea Malibu]

Tried it even though I am one who is not a fan of any of the Viewer 2.* GUI's, I see a massive improvement.  The new search is a nice improvement once I was able to find it.  Searching for the search was the hardest part.

I assume that since this is a beta some of the things will be worked out but the most glaring problem is that search is only active in Advance Mode which has already been brought up.  Given that most new users will never figure this out compounds this and renders it nearly worthless to those users.

"We have this new search that most new users will never find" does not fit well into a conversation.  In all honesty, Viewer 2 is hated by most but I do see a huge improvement in this version. I actually didn't hate it...lol.

I loved the scroll on the bottom and this is an ideal answer to that age old newcomers question "what do you do here?"

Also mentioned is the relevance rankings for objects on the land.  I pulled up a few with my keywords then checked out those stores. I saw stores with few items of that type getting high ranking where the same keywords are in my land description as well as having multitudes of the same with the object Search option checked.

No one has more ceiling fans and no one has more chandeliers in SL than I do. I am the largest home lighting store in SL in both land and inventory.  All are marked for search and all have what they are in their title. As such, why do I come up 5-8 for those keywords?

My thoughts are that they have weighted the Description relevance too heavily and no longer have criteria for Searchable Objects.  Something that I have also thought of often is that Searchable Object ranking should only apply to objects that are set to sale. I am sure the reason behind the current configuration is to prevent Prim Spamming however, if those objects where required to be for sale, this would reduce that.

IMHO weighting should prioritize as follows:

1. Land Name

2. Land Description

3. Name of Objects marked for Search (when set to sell)

4. Classified Placement

5. Object Description

6. Traffic

I'm not sure anyone remembers what Search was like 5 years ago. OMG, that was horrific and it's a wonder anyone made any sales. No matter what you looked for you got returns from Escorts and Strip Clubs.  So, needless to say, I see this as a 1000% improvement over the old days but it could be better.

 

 

 

 

[SomethingReal Atkey]

The new search is an improvment! Make it available for third party viewers like phoenix please...

[Peewee Musytari]

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SomethingReal Atkey wrote:

The new search is an improvment! Make it available for third party viewers like phoenix please...

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It is on Phoenix's Firestorm viewer.

[AmyNevilly]

I want to be objective here. It IS AN IMPROVEMENT. It is faster to use and more intuitive.

However, to me there seems to be more bells and whistles but just as little real substance in terms of finding the right locations.

For example, I run a jobs agency which most would consider to be a very useful resource for new players. Everything is easy to navigate, there's guides and categories for new players and plenty of genuine jobs. I'm about 20th in the new search probably.

Then there's Nachtigal who have 3 identical listings in the first 10 results. Nachtigal is a skybox and when I say box I mean BOX. Inside it's dark and there's hardly any genuine jobs and certainly no help or assistance for new players to speak of. Someone find the light switch yet? He is gaming the search to monetize it....

If I really wanted to manipulate it I could buy a full sim and have the top 20 results...all identical... in search. You'd have to scroll through pages and pages of my stuff to get to anything.

So it's a thumbs down from me frankly.

There's an idea.....thumbs up and thumbs down voting - let players decide what they want to be highest in search....Robots are stupid and eventually humans always figure out how to make them sing and dance they way they want.