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Tamara Zaurak

Asked by Tamara Zaurak,

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Coffee Pancake

Coffee Pancake

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Posted

It's a real shame there's unlikely to ever be a LL server (not opensim) self hosted option .. can't help feel we would draw in a much bigger crowd if that was possible,  even if it totally depended on LL servers for assets, money, script compilation etc etc.

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Mollymews

Mollymews

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if you mean hypergrid teleport between Second Life and a Opensim world then we can't. Second Life is a closed grid

if you mean using a viewer to access a OpenSim world then use a 3rd-party viewer which is made to access Opensim worlds

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Ardy Lay

Ardy Lay

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Yeah, uhm, nope.  I did that back then.  I would hardly call it a "teleport".  It was just smoke and mirrors, hiding logging out of an SL ALPHA GRID and in to OSGrid, I think it was called.  Anyway, no assets or avatar appearance attributes were carried over.  Inventory had to be expunged from the viewer and reloaded.  Sound and texture caches got corrupted and the region object cache was totally ignored.  It was a sham and a complete waste of time.

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Ardy Lay

Ardy Lay

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5 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

It's a real shame there's unlikely to ever be a LL server (not opensim) self hosted option .. can't help feel we would draw in a much bigger crowd if that was possible,  even if it totally depended on LL servers for assets, money, script compilation etc etc.

LL offered something for a while.  It was isolated from SL and was expensive.  I don't know if anybody ever bought it.

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Ardy Lay

Ardy Lay

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1 minute ago, CoffeeDujour said:

IBM 2008

https://www.idm.net.au/blog/00364ibm-deploys-private-‘second-life’-virtual-world

That is not the project I was referring to.  LL had another project that involved a totally isolated set of all services and hosts in a rack.  One either accessed it locally via a LAN or remotely through a firewall provided by the purchaser of the product.  I have been trying to remember the name of the project.  I have a vague memory of it being named after a State in the United States.

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Laurent Bechir

Laurent Bechir

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Ardy Lay said:

Yeah, uhm, nope.  I did that back then.  I would hardly call it a "teleport".  It was just smoke and mirrors, hiding logging out of an SL ALPHA GRID and in to OSGrid, I think it was called.  Anyway, no assets or avatar appearance attributes were carried over.  Inventory had to be expunged from the viewer and reloaded.  Sound and texture caches got corrupted and the region object cache was totally ignored.  It was a sham and a complete waste of time.

I don't remember that it was so bad, and it was not tied only to OSGrid, since I was able to teleport to my sim which was on a self hosted Opensim not linked to OSGrid. 

I've found the Second life wiki about that :

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Grid_Public_Beta

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Ardy Lay

Ardy Lay

Posted
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4 hours ago, Laurent Bechir said:

I don't remember that it was so bad, and it was not tied only to OSGrid, since I was able to teleport to my sim which was on a self hosted Opensim not linked to OSGrid. 

I've found the Second life wiki about that :

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Grid_Public_Beta

It was completely useless.  There was nothing amorphous or cohesive about it.  It was, literally, logging out of one service then logging into another without having to close the viewer first.  Some compatible viewers still do this and I would hope that one can use this feature when 'grid-hopping' from one OpenSimulator based grid to another.  That would be, or is, nice.  Again, I don't bother looking, as I lost interest in OpenSimulator and OSGrid.

When I looked at OSGrid, years ago, it allowed people to host their own region simulators without having to run their own database services.  That was cool and I tried using it, but at the time, their database was broken or slow, so I didn't get to have fun with it.  I'll assume that is a current capability, that the database has been fixed, and that there is much more to OSGrid now than there was when I last looked some years ago.

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bigmoe Whitfield

bigmoe Whitfield

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6 hours ago, Ardy Lay said:

It was completely useless.  There was nothing amorphous or cohesive about it.  It was, literally, logging out of one service then logging into another without having to close the viewer first.  Some compatible viewers still do this and I would hope that one can use this feature when 'grid-hopping' from one OpenSimulator based grid to another.  That would be, or is, nice.  Again, I don't bother looking, as I lost interest in OpenSimulator and OSGrid.

When I looked at OSGrid, years ago, it allowed people to host their own region simulators without having to run their own database services.  That was cool and I tried using it, but at the time, their database was broken or slow, so I didn't get to have fun with it.  I'll assume that is a current capability, that the database has been fixed, and that there is much more to OSGrid now than there was when I last looked some years ago.

They lost basically the whole database when their hardware failed a few years back, it's all been replaced and some of the raid array was saved.    I've still got the thing you know about, but even myself have not touched it in a few years now.    

The whole interop between opensim and SL should never happen, if LL opens the server side up, they need to maintain full control of security and assets and such.    but the opening of the server project, cory talked about in like 2006 and then it was not mentioned again.  

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Nalates Urriah

Nalates Urriah

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The problem that stopped the hyper-grid was content security. Without it content developers would not place their content in those grids. Of course some did. But the big developers wouldn't. It was too easy to steal content.

A busy day in the OpenSim grids is <300 concurrent users.

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Coffee Pancake

Coffee Pancake

Posted
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Opensim based grids don't scale anything like the SL grid. 

If LL and SL die at noon, all the opensim grids will be gone 2 minutes past and wont recover without significant development. It's not just the complete lack of existing infrastructure waiting around incase needed, the software side isn't engineered to handle anything like the concurrency needed for even a fraction of the SL user base.

Content security is the easily cited example of why hypergrid failed, there are much bigger technical problems.

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Ardy Lay

Ardy Lay

Posted
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I never did get to log in to a Nebraska system.  The one friend of mine that did said it was freaky-fast.  I suppose is was because the entire system was in a single rack and the organization had it to themselves on their LAN.  She also told me their OpenSimulator system was pretty good but not great, running on the same sort of hardware.

Too bad LL didn't get the response they needed to keep offering the product.  I looked into it and it was rather expensive for what I wanted it for, and it would be feature-frozen, unless I paid for maintenance and updates.

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SeanMcDonald

SeanMcDonald

Posted
Posted
On 5/18/2020 at 8:46 PM, Tamara Zaurak said:

How do I access open sim from second life???

OSGrid maintains and embassy in Second Life.  At least one arts/education entity simulcasts events in SL and Kitely.  A LOT of organizations and creators are active in both ecosystems.  That said, SL is a closed grid and LL have chosen not to grant access to the hypergrid.  Pretty much any modern viewer is able to log in to opensim worlds, though.  So long as the hypergrid is enabled, you only need to create an avatar on your home grid.  You can then jump to any other connected grid.

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bigmoe Whitfield

bigmoe Whitfield

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34 minutes ago, SeanMcDonald said:

OSGrid maintains and embassy in Second Life.  At least one arts/education entity simulcasts events in SL and Kitely.  A LOT of organizations and creators are active in both ecosystems.  That said, SL is a closed grid and LL have chosen not to grant access to the hypergrid.  Pretty much any modern viewer is able to log in to opensim worlds, though.  So long as the hypergrid is enabled, you only need to create an avatar on your home grid.  You can then jump to any other connected grid.

that was covered 2 years ago, by ardy and others in this topic, why reply?

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Coffee Pancake

Coffee Pancake

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21 minutes ago, SeanMcDonald said:

Because it came up in a search, and Ardy and others were wrong.  If they didn't like Opensim, fine.  But they don't have to lie about it.

I'm sure open sim has a vibrant and active community forum you could raise our misconceptions on, this after-all isn't opensim.

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bigmoe Whitfield

bigmoe Whitfield

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1 hour ago, SeanMcDonald said:

Because it came up in a search, and Ardy and others were wrong.  If they didn't like Opensim, fine.  But they don't have to lie about it.

Only person that was wrong, was you,  ardy is about the smartest person I know,  I've learned after many years,  when are tells you something, it's because ardy has put the research and the work into it.     but you've made up your mindset on this,  we hate opensim blah blah blah.  

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Quistess Alpha

Quistess Alpha

Posted
Posted
On 1/7/2022 at 9:51 PM, SeanMcDonald said:

Pretty much any modern viewer is able to log in to opensim worlds, though.

The last time I checked, the only 'modern viewers' that I was successfully able to make run, and which have opensim support are Cool VL Viewer and the opensim version of Firestorm. There might be others but they're probably windows-only, or dropped support for opensim a few years ago.

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