How do you feel if strangers come into your SL home unexpectedly?

[DeepBlueJoy]

8 hours ago, Jennifer Boyle said:

Why would I assume that, when everyone is welcome to come into my home? Why shouldn't I charitably assume that everyone else welcomes strangers, just as I do?

No, because not everyone is you.

[Bree Giffen]

I have to add that the idea of entering houses and taking things is a game mechanic that has been used in nearly every game that has houses. Millions of gamers have been encouraged to steal things from houses in video games since modern video gaming began. Some games did introduce a sense of morality by having the NPCs (non player characters) react to house invasion but the game also tacitly encouraged people to quietly sneak into houses. What I'm saying is when you see people going into a houses it might be because it's been drilled into their minds over and over until it is no longer seen as a bad thing. I'm not saying it's okay to invade because of this but it just takes people some time to adjust to the notion that a virtual home is really a home and not a loot source.

[Luna Bliss]

7 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

I'm not saying it's okay to invade because of this but it just takes people some time to adjust to the notion that a virtual home is really a home and not a loot source.

I agree...some would not understand our particular type of "roleplaying" here and what our homes might mean to us .

But...I don't think this is the case with the two longtime residents of SL who are taking the other side in this debate. I suspect at this point they are just trying to yank our chains..

[MirandaBowers]

As long as they leave in a relatively short amount of time, I just let them get their bearings and move along. I never use any orbs/boots to remove them. I give them the benefit of the doubt assuming it might have been an accident or that they are still rezzing/loading their scenery. On a few occasions I have had a troll stop by and I just TP away and come back once they've left. I know for myself, I am ALWAYS camera creeping to get inspired by the way others decorate their homes and I too, have accidentally double clicked and TPed or landed on furniture that I did not mean to.

[Vivienne Schell]

7 hours ago, kiramanell said:

I simply fundamentally disagree with the notion that everything is a free-for-all, unless specifically bolded/locked down, and/or surrounded by signs or fences, indicating ppl are not welcome. And I maintain my position, that home owners/renters shouldn't have to do any of that, AND still be able to count on others obeying laws of commion sense and courtesy, when entering other people's homes.

I wonder how you ever managed to create a SL account following your fundamental beliefs.  Cause....ya kno, logging into SL is free for all, unless specifically bolded/locked down, and/or surrounded by signs or fences, indicating ppl are not welcome.

Ahem.

Also, there is no "law of conmmon sense and courtesy" on this planet. There are laws, courtesy and probably common sense..Completely  different pairs of shoes. Btw. Thomas Paine did not mention SL ban lines and security orbs at all.

 

[Selene Gregoire]

10 hours ago, Jennifer Boyle said:

Why would I assume that, when everyone is welcome to come into my home? Why shouldn't I charitably assume that everyone else welcomes strangers, just as I do?

We're not all carbon copies of you. Or anyone else. We're individuals. Deal with it or die from it.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

On 5/12/2020 at 5:50 PM, Gopi Passiflora said:

Personally, I don't mind if strangers come to my home as long as they don't bother me with unwanted IMs or rez stuff that crash the sim or something like that. If they just stand there and don't say anything I don't mind.

The reason why I ask is because I've been viewing various "SL home invasion" trolling videos and commenters have said that people who get mad at strangers coming into their home are taking Second Life too seriously.

in some aspects they are taking it too serious if they didnt want unwanted strangers, they should have locked their doors on their homes or put the parcel to access list only. If you leave it open, you have basically said to everyone 'come on it, the doors open, make yourself at home.'

NO ONE has to live by the morals or ethics of anyone else here in sl. You either do what is needed to keep them out or its your own fault if they dont stay out. That is the purpose and reason why locks were made in the real world. And why some homes here in sl can lock the doors to preven people form just walking in and why there is such a thing as the access list, where they cannot come in and are effectively banned/blocked/locked out of the property because they are not wanted there.

If your too lazy to use the ban/access list then its a YOU problem and not a them problem.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Drakonadrgora Darkfold

[Selene Gregoire]

And yet locking doors in SL won't keep anyone out any more than locks on RL doors will keep determined thieves out.

The issue is people not having any respect or compassion for others as human beings. Full stop.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

On 5/13/2020 at 11:46 AM, Lindal Kidd said:

A guy I know keeps mounted heads of his girlfriends on his wall.  These are the actual avatars, who have agreed to remain on line, seated on this special sort of poser that hides their body but sticks their head through the wall.  They're a sort of specialized "slave cage", I guess.

You could use an alt and something like this to serve as a "remote cam" to see what visitors do when your main account is off line.

It wouldn't even have to be creepy.  You could just wear a full body alpha mask.

That is actually part of bdsm called eoa aka end of avatar where the person mounted on the wall was their victim and was killed and gave over access of their account to the person storing them in their gallery. Usually those avatars are no longer under the control of the original owner anymore.

its a kink/fetish where people are obsessed with the idea of death or bad ends. You will often see them in a group with R. I. P. in front of their name and if you look at their profile it has a long drawn out story over several picks on how they were ended and by who and why and all that drama/erotic story bits.

Often the victim is told they no longer have any rights over their account and have to give up access to it or face public and group humiliation and harassment and banning from the group or sim. Often the password or even the email and password is changed to prevent them from logging back in and leaving the area.

People do some really stupid things in sl at times because they are easily fooled into believe what others say is true.

[Vivienne Schell]

2 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

The issue is people not having any respect or compassion for others as human beings. Full stop.

True. When i get booted by a security orb or get stuck in a banline while flying my zeppelin (at 3000m altitude) I think exactly the same. Full stop.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

27 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

And yet locking doors in SL won't keep anyone out any more than locks on RL doors will keep determined thieves out.

The issue is people not having any respect or compassion for others as human beings. Full stop.

That is where you use the access list and not be lazy about adding your friends to it. then all other strangers 'are' kept out and cannot enter at all.  Depending upon the sim and placement of the house it can keep people out if there is nothing close by that they can sittp to, in order to enter the home.

Sure locks wont keep a true thief out, they never were intended for that. all locks are for is to only keep honest people honest. its a fake sense of security it provides. that is why you have other things like alarms and cameras and monitoring services that inform the local authorities. in sl this is done with sercurity orbs and similar devices.

either use a security orb, or set the ban lines/access list on or accept that randoms will come in even if you dont like it. they dont have to really care if you think its rude or  not fair or impolite or  not nice. For the most part most people that come here think its just a glorified open world free for all game. trying to complain to them or inform them that its not is not going to change them at all. They dont care and wont care just because you think they should.

SL is just an escape from reality and the rules of realty for some people. So they are not going to listen to the morals or ethics of someone else who has decided to think they have the right to tell them how to behave here.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Drakonadrgora Darkfold

[DeepBlueJoy]

27 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

I have to add that the idea of entering houses and taking things is a game mechanic that has been used in nearly every game that has houses. Millions of gamers have been encouraged to steal things from houses in video games since modern video gaming began. Some games did introduce a sense of morality by having the NPCs (non player characters) react to house invasion but the game also tacitly encouraged people to quietly sneak into houses. What I'm saying is when you see people going into a houses it might be because it's been drilled into their minds over and over until it is no longer seen as a bad thing. I'm not saying it's okay to invade because of this but it just takes people some time to adjust to the notion that a virtual home is really a home and not a loot source.

Odd.  Because no one is shooting them, giving them 'health' or any other game type things.  This doesn't function like a game unless you go to one of those sims where there's zombie killing or such going on.  The fact that if you go flying in your early days of SL you'll get booted off private property, and generally get a notice saying you're not allowed there and will be booted... well, that should tell people that there's public and private.  Linden would help some if there was a part of the initial tutorial that told about public and private.  When you go to some sims, you get a covenant notice handed to you, but I know most people don't bother reading that. 

When I went to faery crossing I was educated that there were certain places not to go (not inside people's private homes), and certain etiquette (don't cam into people's private homes) not to do.  And we were asked not to litter, not even in places where we were allowed to rez.  I think it would be useful if there was more of that kind of education going on. No, you cannot force people not to go in -- bad actors will always do what they want, because they are bad actors.

In real life, only thieves and home invaders go into private homes without permission.  We generally put them in prison.

If you are obstinate or narcissist enough to believe  that your obnoxious, disruptive, childish and selfish behavior is the ONLY way to do things, then you will probably eventually end up in prison or jail in the real world. At minimum, you'll have few friends.

In SL, the consequences are more that you'll be seen as a nasty little bully, a griefer and generally the lowest form of SL life.  If that makes you happy, please yourself.  But don't be surprised when people find ways of excluding you from their space and their existence.  I've blocked and banned only a handful of people in my time in SL, but that, IMO is their loss.  I've met others who after polite and pleasant interaction have become friends and who've been given invitation and access to my space and even my home.  People have done the same for me.  I love being part of their lives and having them be part of mine.  I'm welcome in some really cool places in SL... places that rude, trollish people are routinely excluded from.  Guess which life I like best!

[Vivienne Schell]

9 minutes ago, DeepBlueJoy said:

Guess which life I like best!

Apparently RL, cause of the prisons there. Or not?

/me scratches her head

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

32 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

NO ONE has to live by the morals or ethics of anyone else here in sl. You either do what is needed to keep them out or its your own fault if they dont stay out. If your too lazy to use the ban/access list then its a YOU problem and not a them problem.

No one really has the right or entitlement or privilege to tell anyone here in sl. "hey I dont like that behavior stop it!" and really expect that person to have to comply with their wish. If you do and they dont, its a YOU problem not a them problem. Either do what LL has given you the power to do or accept that people will behave how they want no matter if you think its right or not; and not everyone cares if they make a few people upset or unhappy with their behavior. Not everyone is sl is a people pleaser.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Drakonadrgora Darkfold

[DeepBlueJoy]

Just now, Vivienne Schell said:

Apparently RL, cause of the prisons there. Or not?

/me scratches her head

I like the life where I'm welcome and an active part of other people's lives with friendships and companionship.  You are familiar with that, right?

[Vivienne Schell]

Define friendship and companionship. Al Capone had a lot of friends and companions. Also dolphins and mice have that. Maybe the Vogons differ a bit, but I never met one so i cannot judge on that.

One does not need to get educated on Platon to find the eject and ban function in the SL viewer, you know.

[DeepBlueJoy]

14 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

That is where you use the access list and not be lazy about adding your friends to it. then all other strangers 'are' kept out and cannot enter at all.  Depending upon the sim and placement of the house it can keep people out if there is nothing close by that they can sittp to, in order to enter the home.

Sure locks wont keep a true thief out, they never were intended for that. all locks are for is to only keep honest people honest. its a fake sense of security it provides. that is why you have other things like alarms and cameras and monitoring services that inform the local authorities. in sl this is done with sercurity orbs and similar devices.

either use a security orb, or set the ban lines/access list on or accept that randoms will come in even if you dont like it. they dont have to really care if you think its rude or  not fair or impolite or  not nice. For the most part most people that come here think its just a glorified open world free for all game.

It's called society, in and out of real life.  Respect for life and the agency of others.... Respect for the idea that other people have a right to  live their own lives their own way is what makes society.  No society exists when people decide to violate that.  I've been in countries where there's a break down of society.  They're not fun places to live.  For some reason, most of us in SL don't like to live in that kind of world.

Doors simply signal that people want you to stay out.  There's nothing to stop people entering most places other than choice... real world or second life.  Decent people who want to live in some semblance of order don't life the troll/thug life. 

You don't have a right to violate others even if they don't choose to live frightened, locked up lives... which is what you're saying is the ONLY alternative to having their space invaded.

Basically, those who say this have two opinions of the rest of us:

• Those of us who don't live in security zones are idiots and they should expect to be invaded and abused.
   
• Those of us who do live in security zones are horrible people and should expect to be hacked and will be called mean and evil for trying to have private space.

So, the only thing that is acceptable is that we should want to be walked all over?  That's ridiculous. 

And that's what you're basically trying to create, right?  A world where you can bully EVERYONE who doesn't willingly let you violate them.  What does that make you?  Sociopaths?  Oh, OK.  Thanks for the warning.  Thanks for showing your true colors.

I don't need permission to use space I PAY FOR.  I don't need to have to kick you out when I want my space available for my use, YOU DO.  And if you don't behave like a decent human, I reserve the right to exclude you.

[Vivienne Schell]

17 minutes ago, DeepBlueJoy said:

space I PAY FOR

Finally you boiled it down to your essentials. Would have taken one line.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

25 minutes ago, DeepBlueJoy said:

It's called society, in and out of real life.  Respect for life and the agency of others.... Respect for the idea that other people have a right to  live their own lives their own way is what makes society.  No society exists when people decide to violate that.  I've been in countries where there's a break down of society.  They're not fun places to live.  For some reason, most of us in SL don't like to live in that kind of world.

Doors simply signal that people want you to stay out.  There's nothing to stop people entering most places other than choice... real world or second life.  Decent people who want to live in some semblance of order don't life the troll/thug life. 

You don't have a right to violate others even if they don't choose to live frightened, locked up lives... which is what you're saying is the ONLY alternative to having their space invaded.

Basically, those who say this have two opinions of the rest of us:

• Those of us who don't live in security zones are idiots and they should expect to be invaded and abused.
   
• Those of us who do live in security zones are horrible people and should expect to be hacked and will be called mean and evil for trying to have private space.

So, the only thing that is acceptable is that we should want to be walked all over?  That's ridiculous. 

And that's what you're basically trying to create, right?  A world where you can bully EVERYONE who doesn't willingly let you violate them.  What does that make you?  Sociopaths?  Oh, OK.  Thanks for the warning.  Thanks for showing your true colors.

I don't need permission to use space I PAY FOR.  I don't need to have to kick you out when I want my space available for my use, YOU DO.  And if you don't behave like a decent human, I reserve the right to exclude you.

The rules of society do not apply here in sl. its a virual world where anything is possible. NO ONE has to live by your view or standards or morals or ethics or ideal or values here ever. Stop thinking they do or will or you have any right to tell them that they have too. As long as they abide by the TOS and the community guidelines they do not have to do what anyone anywhere thinks or says or wants ever. Your values are not as great or special or important to everyone else but YOU. Realize and accept this or you are yet too immature for SL and the internet.

I dont need your permission to go where I want where I want because I want. If you dont want me there you DO have to do what is needed to prevent me from doing so, tough if you dont like that. YOU have no right to tell anyone how they have to behave or what morals or ethics they have to live by here you only get to decide for yourself no one else ever.

Do NOT ever assume that everyone else is like you or cares what you think or feel or believe ever. Most here DO NOT. You are not even a person to many people, you are a name on a forum, you are a name on an avatar, you are npc(non-player-character) or nipc(non-important-player-character) to them; if you cant handle this, its a YOU problem not a them problem.

You have no special rights or powers her but what LL has given access to you to use. NO ONE has to care if you dont like them or want them around you. YOU DONT get to decide that for others, other than by the means given to you by LL. YOUR likes are meaningless to those that dont care and they wont suddenly care because you got on your high horse and said 'play by my rules or im taking my ball home and you cant play with it anymore." Not everyone is going to care or get upset or anything like YOU seem to think they should or would. Tough if you dont like this. If you cant stand the heat stay out of the kitchen.

oh and Doors do not imply stay out when closed.  its just closing off one area from another for any number of reasons. It doesnt always mean stay out or your not wanted. 

Edited May 19, 2020 by Drakonadrgora Darkfold

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said:

22 minutes ago, DeepBlueJoy said:

space I PAY FOR

Finally you boiled it down to your essentials. Would have taken one line.

Just from what I've seen you post on this thread I would have figured that's about all we could expect you to comprehend.

[Luna Bliss]

I once knew a guy who said he would rape beautiful women if not for the fear of going to prison.  There was no caring about the woman's feelings...his only concern was what he wanted and fears of prison.  Needless to say, that's the last time I spoke to him.

[Vivienne Schell]

3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Just from what I've seen you post on this thread I would have figured that's about all we could expect you to comprehend.

The Terms of Service. Right.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I once knew a guy who said he would rape beautiful women if not for the fear of going to prison.  There was no caring about the woman's feelings...his only concern was what he wanted and fears of prison.  Needless to say, that's the last time I spoke to him.

There are tons of those kinds of people in sl. You can find them by the thousands in the kidnap and rape groups. And there are a lot of females who actually like the idea of that. its their kink. Not everyone here has high morals or ethics or is inhibited by sexual fears and repressions of sexual desire.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Drakonadrgora Darkfold

[Luna Bliss]

11 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

Not everyone here has high morals or ethics or is inhibited by sexual fears and repressions of sexual desire.

So you have to love rape to be sexually free.  Oh I didn't know that.

[JGuala]

I absolutely HATE when people randomly come in my house. Especially if I'm sitting AFK and I come back to a stranger cuddle up with me. It's just toooo weird & also disrespectful as hell