How do you feel if strangers come into your SL home unexpectedly?

[Selene Gregoire]

Some of those inconsiderate orb people are new and have no clue.

[Vivienne Schell]

1 hour ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Some of those inconsiderate orb people are new and have no clue.

When I was new I didn´t know that "security orbs" exist at all.

[Ren Toxx]

My only feeling when that happens is, ‘hmm, the orb seems to be taking its jolly good time to do its thing’.

I wouldn’t describe it as a feeling, though. More of a clinical curiosity.

[Vivienne Schell]

Do bots dream of electric sheep?

[Tari Landar]

The party isn't over until I say it's over.

And I say it's never over, because I love crashing parties I was never invited to in the first place

I don't personally give a flying fudrucker what anyone does on land I "own".  If I wanted people to stay out, I'd use the tools available to make them do so. The tools exist, plenty of them in fact, and I would use them. 

However, I don't, and have never had property that I cared to keep people out of. In fact, the vast majority of land I have had, I've left open to public use, including any personal homes, furniture, stuffs. I, personally, take the stance of "what exactly can they do to harm my stuff?". The answer is simple..nada. They can't get their unwelcome dna all over my stuff, they can't eat the food out my fridge, they can't sully all my linens and plumbing, they can't let my precious furry and otherwise family members escape whatever particular captivity in which they reside, they can't even rez if I don't let them, they can't put all my living room furniture in the kitchen and my stove in the game room......they can basically do absolutely no harm at all. So, I, personally, don't actually care, lol.

I don't mind that others care, it is their land to do with whatever they so wish, and I respect that. I have never intentionally invaded anyone's personal space, though I have done so unintentionally numerous times (because it's not always obvious). If/when I do, I apologize profusely, even if the property owner is not online, because you just never know the kind of attitude towards personal space invasion someone might have, so I find being apologetic for accidental invasion is the best option. Most people, however, don't actually care, whether or not I apologize, lol. I also have to say that ALL but three of my accidental invasions involved being rubber banded, or tossed via whatever means I was traveling across an area and ending up most definitely not where I intended. The other three times were me just wandering across land, open to public land I might add, and coming across not so public land by chance.  I'd never actually wander into anything I thought was someone's house intentionally. They were just parcels that happen to butt up to public ones. 

I skidaddle out super quick if I notice I'm somewhere I shouldn't be. But I do the same in rl. Yes, in rl, I can wander across land that my family owns, or even public land, and then end up encountering private land. It happens all the time actually, because you can't see property boundaries in rl without some kind of indicator, I don't have an "about land" in rl, lol. I guess I am just happy that most people in rl aren't nearly as snippy when it happens as some people in sl get. In rl signage is required here for actual land that is private versus not private..not necessarily on land that has a structure of some kind, though it's often included then too, especially on vast swaths of land. Not all private property invasion is intentional, but when you own property and you don't make it obvious (using the tools available) that property is owned and not to be trespassed upon in an environment surrounded by non-private property, you kind of leave yourself open for accidental invasion. Hence why the tools exist. I respect that some don't like it, absolutely, and I respect their right to privacy. What I don't respect is the lack of protecting, or even enforcing their own privacy beforehand, simply so they can hulk out and do so reactively...that's a bit over the top for me. Proactive protection is better than reactive tendencies.  I still respect their desire for privacy even if they hulk out, of course, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't get a good chuckle out of it when they do go all ballistic on people. 

 

[Amina Sopwith]

Well, you'll probably all like this, anyway. 

 

[Prokofy Neva]

10 hours ago, Lewis Luminos said:

Some MMOs give every character a "home" so some people like that may be coming to SL from one of those games, and expecting it to work the same way.

Yes, I totally get that. When I tried to play EVE Online, I could never figure out how to get out of that home. I had the same problem frankly even on Philip's game Hi Fidelity. There was also some newbie helper guy that kept appearing and I actually wanted him to go away because I can't "learn by watching" a youtube or a person in a virtual world, but only by reading and hacking at it myself until I get it. But still, an entire 4096 elaborately built up parcel, with another 4096 extension, that's your home? Really? No game gives you that.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 5/15/2020 at 7:54 PM, Mollymews said:

i agree that Linden could make some informational changes to the viewer

possibly making LDPW and Governor Linden parcel boundaries show in a color of its own, thereby marking public land to be more clearly distinguishable from private land when boundaries are turned on

another marker could be in the viewer address bar.  LDPW and Governor Linden owned land to have a text tag: Public land:  All other parcels tagged in the address bar as Private land

edit add: this could be extended to private estates as well, as a estate control.  Parcels owned by this account (or accounts) are tagged Public. All other parcels owned by other accounts are tagged Private

Possibly that might help, it's a good idea. Currently group land is aqua; your own personal land is green; other people's land is red -- but then so is Linden Land. So they might want to make theirs blue or something. 

The problem is that this hurdle is one that even older residents do not cross easily. Every day I have to explain even to five-year-old people who happen to be in group rentals for the first time that they have to turn on world/show/property owners or world/show/property lines in order to see the boundaries of their parcel and our group land in general on that sim. It's news to many. They don't habitually know this. How would they "just know". If they aren't land owners, they a have no reason to do this. If they haven't shopped for land, they have no reason to turn on land ownership so they can fly around and see the yellow parcels for sale sticking out. So they don't know.

And that's why you see several really bad behaviours I'm constantly battling against:

o People who put up [can't mention company name] yellow boundary markers that look like police tape at a scene or a crime or accident that obliterate the view for many sims. It would be one thing if they did that just temporarily while building, but some of them keep that on forever as some kind of comforting "fence". They have the view of you and your sim which you spent years making beautiful to the outside; but now they are in YOUR view with ugly yellow tape. I IM such people and explain how to turn on property lines. Some of them are surprised to learn this. Some say they know, but they can't see those lines. I tell them to turn on "Midnight" then they show up better. Some don't know that trick. Then the really stubborn ones will say, but in the dark, I can't see my build". That's when I say their build is already placed -- why are the tapes still up? Then they commence to cursing at me and I'm not surprised to see a "Vote for Trump" sign on the line not long after.

But many people respond to this news about lines and midnight positively, or at least they suddenly "see themselves as others see them" and get rid of the blight.

o People who don't even know about the boundary tape, let alone the viewer's built-in lines in world/show, and put up giant red prim markers. These can last forever, because they don't log on to finish their build for weeks at a time. I suppose the Lindens could devise some kind of better marker, actual yellow tape that temporarily springs up and is viewable by owner-only but of course they aren't going to bother to do this. But it's incentive to me once again to finish my project of a tutorial for tenants because I am getting sick of this.

o People who place houses and furniture across 3 rental lots, not just a little bit over the edge, but taking up all their space and a good deal of the space around them. I don't instantly return these prims, although the fellow tenants can be pretty angry, I try to reach the culprits, I try to educate them, I try to give them a chance, and sometimes some of them refund because their big-a$$ house was never meant to fit on that 512; some of them rage at me for days because a lot is 768 m and not actually 1024 meters as the rental box says (because they were all originally set at standard levels, and over the years, precisely because some people's houses didn't fit or easements were needed, some lots got carved into. Here, I try to explain that even if that lot was 1024, it still wouldn't fit the 30 x 30 house because it's a lot that does not have those dimensions. Math is poor taught and poorly learnt in American schools and I'm a good example because I failed most higher math classes, suffer from discalcula, and still count on my fingers. But over the years, I did learn to visualize square metersl and to understand that 1024 can be made up of different dimensions, and be irregular. People seldom look at their house maker's own descriptions when they want to move in; I tell them to do so and also encourage them to test their house first without paying -- that's why the groups are open to join initially and place prims. And that helps many to find the right lot. But some never do, because they want the cheap $125 or $165 lot that is 768 or 1024 but doesn't fit their house; they don't want to pay the $250. Since the difference between US $0.67 and $1.37 really is trivial even for people in third-world countries if they are at the stage where they have Internet and can play on that Internet, I can't be sorry, especially as the lowest cost rentals are subsidized for alleged newbies, who don't really exist anyway with rare exceptions.

I find that generally, most people cannot understand what square meters are, and how they and their house fit in them. I'm not kidding. It's the case. It's why some people gratefully move into a house you already put out for them.

o People who, once having grasped their boundaries and the lines they must colour within, decide that they now have to put up giant photo-real boards to block the view of other people and create "privacy" or "a sense of comfort". That their photo-real beaches on a snow sim or their alpine scenes on a beach sim are stupid not to mention ugly in a virtual world where the photo-real doesn't work never dawns on them. That their sense of comfort equals blight for other people to look at never dawns on them. I have a neighbour who has made a curious build. It's a giant parking lot, level by level, up into the sky. Replete with steel beams and macadam. Blocking the sun for miles. Serving no purpose. There are no cars on each level or anything. But at the top is some kind of beachy hangout. It's like the only structure he could conceive that had levels and were open is the well-known urban sight of a tiered parking lot. So that's what he built. Photo-realism is the bane of SL. I totally get that he wants to be up to see the vast coastal beauty below that others including me and my tenants have made. I'd rather he go 500 m up in the sky and hang out there, but if he must have a perch, why all that steel and concrete holding it up? It's a virtual world. Buy a cloud on the MP, there are a variety of ones. Sit on the cloud, please.

So I don't allow photo-real boards and PS don't allow photo-real bushes or trees on boards in 2D as they look terrible as well. And in most places with no paths or roads or easements I don't allow fences, period, because seldom do they look good.

And for some people, this drives them into a fury. Some back out and refund and find a place where they can put up their photo-real boards. Or they move into one of those giant layered domes blighting the view for 16 sims. Others stay and keep arguing and arguing and trying to skirt the rules. It's not about prims, even. There are low-prim 3D good-looking bushes. It's about the principle of them wanting to enclose their space. They often don't understand that they cannot achieve privacy this way. That anyone can cam around their boards. They aren't comforted by unchecking "avatars can see me" so they are literally invisible to anyone looking in. It's never enough. Unless there is a big black box over their parcel (I get that a fair amount) or giant boards or 2D ugly trees, they cannot feel safe. And this part isn't about intrusions or the orbs -- it's a different psychology space that scientists could study and once again, I could point out that people port their behaviours from RL and you cannot undo them. They are not wrong. What DeepBlueJoy describes is very, very real. I have had tenants who have been attacked, raped, traumatized and it created lasting psychological damage. I do everything possible to mitigate this. I take out rental boxes that show names. I have "payment on file only" on one sim so that people can get rid of the annoying day-old exes who pursue them. But I am not going to close down the whole enterprise into a bunker because of the exceptions to the rule, which is most people are decent, and group living works.

A tenant just asked me to hide membership for the whole group because an ex was stalking her by seeing when she logged in -- he can join and unjoin the group to so so. That I won't do. Because it's a hindrance for members looking for other members, which they like to do. It's especially important for people in good relationships, especially nowadays, to see if somebody logged in recently if they live with them especially, or if they didn't and they should try to contact them in some other way. What I can do is simply ban that one individual so he can't join the group and peep on her log-ons. Of course, I can't get to his alts. But this is a good example of how stalkers make use of the fact that you and your friends still talk to them and know what they're doing. Block voice and text everywhere and they will go away eventually.

I believe strongly in open societies and I will not close my groups in any way. Imagine, rentals on the Mainland, where you can join at will, or pay just $1 which is put on to deter day-old griefers who won't bother to get cash, and place a prim. Some people recoil from that idea in horror. That's fine, rent elsewhere. Yet this works in most cases or I wouldn't have as many customers as I do. It works most of the time because most people are decent. The few exceptions of people joining to place grief prims or placing prims accidentally on someone's lawn they can't return are the minority of cases and not worth closing the group over inconveniencing everyone who wants to have a friend come over and be able to rez things to show them. The boons outweigh banes. Because you deal with them with bans and returns quickly, i

Yet there will always be people who strenuously argue in favour of security and closed societies and cite their own trauma or crime and griefing as the reason, in real life as in virtual life. And that's fine, as long as they don't lobby to have this *the norm for the whole society, the standard by which we all must live*. In SL there is CHOICE. You can get an island rental where you can have your own group and close it. Pay a little more and do that, please, and don't insist that cheaper Mainland rentals conform to your wishes.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Prokofy Neva

[Nagafusa Takeda]

They can't get in unless they're using some shady tools, and even if they do I'll just boot them anyway. theres 0 reason they'd be there other than to be an *****.

[DeepBlueJoy]

20 hours ago, Vivienne Schell said:

When I was new I didn´t know that "security orbs" exist at all.

Took me one attempt to fly and being booted to adult hub hell to learn about security orbs

Edited May 18, 2020 by DeepBlueJoy

[Asadora Summers]

I made a moocher detector to shame those that use my furniture and not de-rez anything afterwards. I don't like coming home to a mess of rezzed from furniture stuff. I don't mind who visits my land when I am not there, but I do mind when they don't clean up after themselves. 

I've had a couple of snoopers over the years, just standing on my land, watching me (before the feature of not seeing avatars on parcel) and not responding to my IMs. I soon realised that I actually enjoyed that so it doesn't bother me anymore. I suppose in that regard, that I've developed a fetish for it. 
I've learned a lot about people's behaviour whilst living on Mainland which has made me better able to adapt so I'm thankful for that. 

In SL no one really 'owns' anything, cept for the connection that our ISP provides that we pay for in order to connect to the Internet and SL. And by 'owning the connection' I mean regarding the user side, the computer/laptop, keyboard/monitor(s) the physical aspect; stuff that we paid for in order to be on the Internet to get to SL. 

Second Life is what a person makes it. If a person makes it crappy for other people, then mute that person. If someone rezzes out a questionable build next to your parcel then derender it all. At the end of the day, we all log on for different reasons. No one has the right to make another person feel like crap, but the power to prevent that is always in our hands. 
 

As in the physical world the same is true for the virtual world: If it doesn't seem right, feel right or makes you feel uneasy then pay attention to your gut because it's normally always 100% spot on. 

My heart belongs to Mainland. Sim crossings and all! 😆

 

[Lillith Hapmouche]

7 hours ago, MissMagicCakes said:

They can't get in unless they're using some shady tools

Alt-camming and sitting are shady tools?

[kiramanell]

5 hours ago, Asadora Summers said:

I made a moocher detector to shame those that use my furniture and not de-rez anything afterwards. I don't like coming home to a mess of rezzed from furniture stuff. I don't mind who visits my land when I am not there, but I do mind when they don't clean up after themselves.

 

Wait, wut?! You allow ppl to rez on your land even!?!

[Pixie Kobichenko]

5 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

 

Wait, wut?! You allow ppl to rez on your land even!?!

I think more likely when people use furniture that rezzes items, like popcorn bowls on the sofa or dishes on a table, laptop on the bed.  Not putting them away via menu before leaving.

[kiramanell]

1 minute ago, Pixie Kobichenko said:

I think more likely when people use furniture that rezzes items, like popcorn bowls on the sofa or dishes on a table, laptop on the bed.  Not putting them away via menu before leaving.

 

That makes sense.  Although, if said furniture did it right, it's supposed to temp- rez/attach items, that will derez automagically when they leave. But I see what you mean.

[kiramanell]

16 hours ago, Tari Landar said:

However, I don't, and have never had property that I cared to keep people out of. In fact, the vast majority of land I have had, I've left open to public use, including any personal homes, furniture, stuffs. I, personally, take the stance of "what exactly can they do to harm my stuff?". The answer is simple..nada. They can't get their unwelcome dna all over my stuff, they can't eat the food out my fridge, they can't sully all my linens and plumbing, they can't let my precious furry and otherwise family members escape whatever particular captivity in which they reside, they can't even rez if I don't let them, they can't put all my living room furniture in the kitchen and my stove in the game room......they can basically do absolutely no harm at all. So, I, personally, don't actually care, lol.

 

'Harm' is a tricky word. They could do harm, for starters, simply by being there. I'm not truly as teensy and frail as I often feel, but I would certainly totally freak out when I logged in, and found strangers humping in my bed. 😬 Or finding a complete strange man inside my home. Not saying all men are r*pists, of course, and it's not RL, I get that, but their expressed intention alone, by entering uninvited, would definitely already trigger me.

They could do 'physical' harm to me. Again, not RL, but it can certainly be traumatizing all by itself when someone tries to force himself onto you. Not everything would need to play out so dramatically per se; but given a choice, I'd rather have a say in these matters myself.

They could do harm, simply by harrassing me with their continued, unwanted presence. There are naturally tools to get rid of them, but harm, to a degree, would still be done.

[kiramanell]

17 hours ago, Tari Landar said:

I skidaddle out super quick if I notice I'm somewhere I shouldn't be. But I do the same in rl. Yes, in rl, I can wander across land that my family owns, or even public land, and then end up encountering private land. It happens all the time actually, because you can't see property boundaries in rl without some kind of indicator, I don't have an "about land" in rl, lol. I guess I am just happy that most people in rl aren't nearly as snippy when it happens as some people in sl get. In rl signage is required here for actual land that is private versus not private..not necessarily on land that has a structure of some kind, though it's often included then too, especially on vast swaths of land. Not all private property invasion is intentional, but when you own property and you don't make it obvious (using the tools available) that property is owned and not to be trespassed upon in an environment surrounded by non-private property, you kind of leave yourself open for accidental invasion. Hence why the tools exist. I respect that some don't like it, absolutely, and I respect their right to privacy. What I don't respect is the lack of protecting, or even enforcing their own privacy beforehand, simply so they can hulk out and do so reactively...that's a bit over the top for me. Proactive protection is better than reactive tendencies.  I still respect their desire for privacy even if they hulk out, of course, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't get a good chuckle out of it when they do go all ballistic on people. 

 

 

You make a good point about private land in RL needing some sort of clear demarcation/sign. That's more of a legal matter, though (in terms of what you must have done to make known its your propery, before you can take action against outsiders).

We must be careful, however, not to confuse land with homes (the latter of which, after all, is the topic of this thread). Which is to say, I don't think I've seen too many peeps throw a hissy fit over others crossing their land per se. Entering someone's home, however, I feel is of a different order of magnitude. Personally, I draw the line at home invasion. Overall, the Golden Rule applies, I think. If you don't just walk into a perfect stranger's home in RL, then common sense dictates you don't do so in SL either. And if common sense doesn't do it, then simply common courtesy.

[DeepBlueJoy]

15 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Possibly that might help, it's a good idea. Currently group land is aqua; your own personal land is green; other people's land is red -- but then so is Linden Land. So they might want to make theirs blue or something. 

The problem is that this hurdle is one that even older residents do not cross easily. Every day I have to explain even to five-year-old people who happen to be in group rentals for the first time that they have to turn on world/show/property owners or world/show/property lines in order to see the boundaries of their parcel and our group land in general on that sim. It's news to many. They don't habitually know this. How would they "just know". If they aren't land owners, they a have no reason to do this. If they haven't shopped for land, they have no reason to turn on land ownership so they can fly around and see the yellow parcels for sale sticking out. So they don't know.

And that's why you see several really bad behaviours I'm constantly battling against:

o People who put up [can't mention company name] yellow boundary markers that look like police tape at a scene or a crime or accident that obliterate the view for many sims. It would be one thing if they did that just temporarily while building, but some of them keep that on forever as some kind of comforting "fence". They have the view of you and your sim which you spent years making beautiful to the outside; but now they are in YOUR view with ugly yellow tape. I IM such people and explain how to turn on property lines. Some of them are surprised to learn this. Some say they know, but they can't see those lines. I tell them to turn on "Midnight" then they show up better. Some don't know that trick. Then the really stubborn ones will say, but in the dark, I can't see my build". That's when I say their build is already placed -- why are the tapes still up? Then they commence to cursing at me and I'm not surprised to see a "Vote for Trump" sign on the line not long after.

But many people respond to this news about lines and midnight positively, or at least they suddenly "see themselves as others see them" and get rid of the blight.

o People who don't even know about the boundary tape, let alone the viewer's built-in lines in world/show, and put up giant red prim markers. These can last forever, because they don't log on to finish their build for weeks at a time. I suppose the Lindens could devise some kind of better marker, actual yellow tape that temporarily springs up and is viewable by owner-only but of course they aren't going to bother to do this. But it's incentive to me once again to finish my project of a tutorial for tenants because I am getting sick of this.

o People who place houses and furniture across 3 rental lots, not just a little bit over the edge, but taking up all their space and a good deal of the space around them. I don't instantly return these prims, although the fellow tenants can be pretty angry, I try to reach the culprits, I try to educate them, I try to give them a chance, and sometimes some of them refund because their big-a$$ house was never meant to fit on that 512; some of them rage at me for days because a lot is 768 m and not actually 1024 meters as the rental box says (because they were all originally set at standard levels, and over the years, precisely because some people's houses didn't fit or easements were needed, some lots got carved into. Here, I try to explain that even if that lot was 1024, it still wouldn't fit the 30 x 30 house because it's a lot that does not have those dimensions. Math is poor taught and poorly learnt in American schools and I'm a good example because I failed most higher math classes, suffer from discalcula, and still count on my fingers. But over the years, I did learn to visualize square metersl and to understand that 1024 can be made up of different dimensions, and be irregular. People seldom look at their house maker's own descriptions when they want to move in; I tell them to do so and also encourage them to test their house first without paying -- that's why the groups are open to join initially and place prims. And that helps many to find the right lot. But some never do, because they want the cheap $125 or $165 lot that is 768 or 1024 but doesn't fit their house; they don't want to pay the $250. Since the difference between US $0.67 and $1.37 really is trivial even for people in third-world countries if they are at the stage where they have Internet and can play on that Internet, I can't be sorry, especially as the lowest cost rentals are subsidized for alleged newbies, who don't really exist anyway with rare exceptions.

I find that generally, most people cannot understand what square meters are, and how they and their house fit in them. I'm not kidding. It's the case. It's why some people gratefully move into a house you already put out for them.

o People who, once having grasped their boundaries and the lines they must colour within, decide that they now have to put up giant photo-real boards to block the view of other people and create "privacy" or "a sense of comfort". That their photo-real beaches on a snow sim or their alpine scenes on a beach sim are stupid not to mention ugly in a virtual world where the photo-real doesn't work never dawns on them. That their sense of comfort equals blight for other people to look at never dawns on them. I have a neighbour who has made a curious build. It's a giant parking lot, level by level, up into the sky. Replete with steel beams and macadam. Blocking the sun for miles. Serving no purpose. There are no cars on each level or anything. But at the top is some kind of beachy hangout. It's like the only structure he could conceive that had levels and were open is the well-known urban sight of a tiered parking lot. So that's what he built. Photo-realism is the bane of SL. I totally get that he wants to be up to see the vast coastal beauty below that others including me and my tenants have made. I'd rather he go 500 m up in the sky and hang out there, but if he must have a perch, why all that steel and concrete holding it up? It's a virtual world. Buy a cloud on the MP, there are a variety of ones. Sit on the cloud, please.

So I don't allow photo-real boards and PS don't allow photo-real bushes or trees on boards in 2D as they look terrible as well. And in most places with no paths or roads or easements I don't allow fences, period, because seldom do they look good.

And for some people, this drives them into a fury. Some back out and refund and find a place where they can put up their photo-real boards. Or they move into one of those giant layered domes blighting the view for 16 sims. Others stay and keep arguing and arguing and trying to skirt the rules. It's not about prims, even. There are low-prim 3D good-looking bushes. It's about the principle of them wanting to enclose their space. They often don't understand that they cannot achieve privacy this way. That anyone can cam around their boards. They aren't comforted by unchecking "avatars can see me" so they are literally invisible to anyone looking in. It's never enough. Unless there is a big black box over their parcel (I get that a fair amount) or giant boards or 2D ugly trees, they cannot feel safe. And this part isn't about intrusions or the orbs -- it's a different psychology space that scientists could study and once again, I could point out that people port their behaviours from RL and you cannot undo them. They are not wrong. What DeepBlueJoy describes is very, very real. I have had tenants who have been attacked, raped, traumatized and it created lasting psychological damage. I do everything possible to mitigate this. I take out rental boxes that show names. I have "payment on file only" on one sim so that people can get rid of the annoying day-old exes who pursue them. But I am not going to close down the whole enterprise into a bunker because of the exceptions to the rule, which is most people are decent, and group living works.

A tenant just asked me to hide membership for the whole group because an ex was stalking her by seeing when she logged in -- he can join and unjoin the group to so so. That I won't do. Because it's a hindrance for members looking for other members, which they like to do. It's especially important for people in good relationships, especially nowadays, to see if somebody logged in recently if they live with them especially, or if they didn't and they should try to contact them in some other way. What I can do is simply ban that one individual so he can't join the group and peep on her log-ons. Of course, I can't get to his alts. But this is a good example of how stalkers make use of the fact that you and your friends still talk to them and know what they're doing. Block voice and text everywhere and they will go away eventually.

I believe strongly in open societies and I will not close my groups in any way. Imagine, rentals on the Mainland, where you can join at will, or pay just $1 which is put on to deter day-old griefers who won't bother to get cash, and place a prim. Some people recoil from that idea in horror. That's fine, rent elsewhere. Yet this works in most cases or I wouldn't have as many customers as I do. It works most of the time because most people are decent. The few exceptions of people joining to place grief prims or placing prims accidentally on someone's lawn they can't return are the minority of cases and not worth closing the group over inconveniencing everyone who wants to have a friend come over and be able to rez things to show them. The boons outweigh banes. Because you deal with them with bans and returns quickly, i

Yet there will always be people who strenuously argue in favour of security and closed societies and cite their own trauma or crime and griefing as the reason, in real life as in virtual life. And that's fine, as long as they don't lobby to have this *the norm for the whole society, the standard by which we all must live*. In SL there is CHOICE. You can get an island rental where you can have your own group and close it. Pay a little more and do that, please, and don't insist that cheaper Mainland rentals conform to your wishes.

In spite of my expeiences and demands that my spaces be respected, I disagree with almost nothing you have written. I dont like the yellow crime scene tape/jail bars either and the black boxes or big parking lots are way too familiar forms of blight. I love open. I love privacy. I hate blight.

[Selene Gregoire]

2 hours ago, kiramanell said:

 

'Harm' is a tricky word. They could do harm, for starters, simply by being there. I'm not truly as teensy and frail as I often feel, but I would certainly totally freak out when I logged in, and found strangers humping in my bed. 😬 Or finding a complete strange man inside my home. Not saying all men are r*pists, of course, and it's not RL, I get that, but their expressed intention alone, by entering uninvited, would definitely already trigger me.

They could do 'physical' harm to me. Again, not RL, but it can certainly be traumatizing all by itself when someone tries to force himself onto you. Not everything would need to play out so dramatically per se; but given a choice, I'd rather have a say in these matters myself.

They could do harm, simply by harrassing me with their continued, unwanted presence. There are naturally tools to get rid of them, but harm, to a degree, would still be done.

No one ever stops to think about the emotional harm some random randy drop in causes to those who are RL rape victims/survivors. Those scars do not heal. Not completely. Not ever.

[Vivienne Schell]

 

1 hour ago, kiramanell said:

common sense

RL "common sense" in SL? Is there any? Well, ok, is it "common sense" when someone locks his "home" in SL cause it´s "common sense" that a 5-dollar-a-month SL pixel home is as valuable as a RL home, then attaches a twenty inch long pixel ***** - after logging out his 14 ys old looking female alt - visits some sims where naked female avis play looped animations on particle spawning dancepoles cause it´s "common sense" that this is extraordinarily sexy, then drops into a combat sim to slaughter some fellows he always hated for their "common sense" and finally hires some 12ys old looking avi steered by a 60 ys old user to play his "daughter" at his "common sense" SL home?

Not as if I am in the position to judge on any of these or other activities. But "common sense" in SL?

/me coughs heartily

[kiramanell]

29 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said:

 

RL "common sense" in SL? Is there any? Well, ok, is it "common sense" when someone locks his "home" in SL cause it´s "common sense" that a 5-dollar-a-month SL pixel home is as valuable as a RL home, then attaches a twenty inch long pixel ***** - after logging out his 14 ys old looking female alt - visits some sims where naked female avis play looped animations on particle spawning dancepoles cause it´s "common sense" that this is extraordinarily sexy, then drops into a combat sim to slaughter some fellows he always hated for their "common sense" and finally hires some 12ys old looking avi steered by a 60 ys old user to play his "daughter" at his "common sense" SL home?

Not as if I am in the position to judge on any of these or other activities. But "common sense" in SL?

/me coughs heartily

 

It's common sense to assume common sense exists in SL too, as 'human is as human does,' in RL, SL, and likely any virtual world in the future. As for all above perversations you mentioned taking place in SL as well, why, that only underlines the point: humans do what humans do, wherever they be. So, best we can conclude, is that our world is a sordid mess. And, thus, so is SL.

But even RL does not completely consist of chaos and crazed abandon. And, therefore, not SL either. There's great beauty in SL, great warmth, companionship, welcomeness, and, yes, naturally also people valuing their privacy.

And so, common sense dictactes that I only visit the good places in SL, and stay away from bad, suspect, or downright evil spots. Pretty much like I do in RL. Hence, in the good places I visit, common sense, common decency, and common courtesty still exist. And should we ever run out of such venues, I will help build more. That too is the beauty of SL: we all pitch in, not just the bad people.  

Edited May 18, 2020 by kiramanell

[Vivienne Schell]

26 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

There's great beauty in SL, great warmth, companionship, welcomeness, and, yes, naturally also people valuing their privacy.

And what exactly does a security orb or a ban line contribute to great warmth, companionship and welcomeness?

"Common sense" in SL is defined by the ToS and the customers parcel/region tools. These enable users to do certain things, including locking parcels down. Anything else is a matter of morals or opinion, not "common sense".

[Luna Bliss]

31 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said:

1 hour ago, kiramanell said:

There's great beauty in SL, great warmth, companionship, welcomeness, and, yes, naturally also people valuing their privacy.

And what exactly does a security orb or a ban line contribute to great warmth, companionship and welcomeness?

That's like saying I'm not "contributing to great warmth, companionship and welcomeness" when I shut the window on the guy's arm as he attempts to barge into my personal home.

[Luna Bliss]

32 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said:

"Common sense" in SL is defined by the ToS and the customers parcel/region tools. These enable users to do certain things, including locking parcels down. Anything else is a matter of morals or opinion, not "common sense".

Yes, and fortunately LL recognizes and deems it common sense that humans have both public and private needs.

[Ren Toxx]

38 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said:

And what exactly does a security orb or a ban line contribute to great warmth, companionship and welcomeness?

They speed up the process of the intruder going elsewhere where those things are assumed and indeed offered.

Therefore they too contribute to great warmth, companionship, etc.