Monitoring the Forums

[Pussycat Catnap]

9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I don't think you realize some of the minor infractions some have been reported for, and received censure...so much so that they left the forum.

I find this interesting given... who I am and how heated some folks have gotten against me in the past.

I'm fairly certain LL gets between 20-40 reports against me per minute of that nature; 24/7/365...

and yet as of this post, I'm still here; because I've not ACTUALLY broken the rules (*)... and several folks who have gone on racist tirades against me in other platforms, and sometimes even in here - are long gone (years now for most of them)... because despite claims that there doing 'minor infractions', they weren't... and funny enough - I myself didn't generally report them (they tended to vanish more than a year after... so the conduct they had against me, was the conduct they couldn't stop having against others, and it eventually caught up with them).

Meanwhile folks who just generally dislike me, but have not gone on rules violating tirades, are still here. So whatever snipes people are doing with the reporting system... it ain't working. It seems like only genuinely bad actors get removed.

 

(*) I have seen posts of mine vanish - more often when a whole thread does so... where I knew I was getting out of hand though. But I think in those moments the entire lot of us got a 'time out' together...

 

 

Edited January 26, 2020 by Pussycat Catnap

[Pamela Galli]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I don't think you realize some of the minor infractions some have been reported for, and received censure...so much so that they left the forum.

I do think, however, that the moderation has been lighter of late, and I'm happy to see that.

I certainly am aware certain frequent violators are missing — and not missed. If they were reported, there’s a good chance it was by me. 
 

But anyone who doesn’t want to work with mods to keep this forum a happy place, is excused. Those who do can just carry on as they have been. 

[Cindy Evanier]

5 minutes ago, Marigold Devin said:

15 minute sit cross-legged under the clock

Not even scary Miss Galli could get me sitting cross legged anymore   

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

I certainly am aware certain frequent violators are missing — and not missed. If they were reported, there’s a good chance it was by me.

I can understand reporting if the infraction was severe.

But I you look at some threads where there's simply a lively debate occurring (and sometimes quite lively, yes), often someone(s) will come in with a IBTL post.  It's obvious from this they really can't tell the difference between a lively debate and flaming/fighting.

[Pamela Galli]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

I can understand reporting if the infraction was severe.

But I you look at some threads where there's simply a lively debate occurring (and sometimes quite lively, yes), often someone(s) will come in with a IBTL post.  It's obvious from this they really can't tell the difference between a lively debate and flaming/fighting.

Oh I think they can. I can. Maybe you can’t, tho.

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Pamela Galli said:

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I can understand reporting if the infraction was severe.

But I you look at some threads where there's simply a lively debate occurring (and sometimes quite lively, yes), often someone(s) will come in with a IBTL post.  It's obvious from this they really can't tell the difference between a lively debate and flaming/fighting.

Oh I think they can. I can. Maybe you can’t, tho.

One has to evaluate carefully....often there is a fine line.  People who are overly certain are often wrong.

Unfortunately, there's more than a few who get into reporting people as a kind of power trip -- this is what I'm against. In some cases, the threads were not evaluated clearly and everybody in the thread got a censure.   I see much improvement with this lately though, so perhaps I don't need to be concerned with this aspect.

[Pussycat Catnap]

I kinda think both of you have valid points in there if I remove the parts where you're starting to get mad at each other... At least in the later few posts.

Bad actors get removed, and some folks over-react with that IBTL post thing that has always read to me like an attempt to incite further.

That said... a lot of 'lively debates' are really just pile-ons against someone - who may either be in the wrong or just not being rightly rational at that moment. When I hear 'lively debate' I tend to be suspicious... more often they look like a text version of a mob beating someone they managed to catch in the street...

 

 

[Jagix Linden]

 

Everyone is obligated to follow the Terms & Conditions (which includes the Community Standards, among other policies). You're not, per se, obligated to report people who aren't, but it'd be sort of like going, "Man, there's a lot of crime here! Someone should call the police, but not me, because I'm not a snitch!" We're here to help and make those determinations.

Follow the rules, report people who you think aren't doing that, and we'll make that determination. There's no penalty for being wrong on either end; mass reporting to get someone suspended isn't a thing, and you're not going to get in trouble for being wrong about your report, unless it's really clear that you're submitting false reports to purposefully clog up the reporting systems.

[Selene Gregoire]

Dang. Is this a record? The thread went south on the first page.

[Selene Gregoire]

2 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

some folks over-react with that IBTL post thing

Sometimes it is meant as a joke.

[Amina Sopwith]

21 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I don't think you realize some of the minor infractions some have been reported for, and received censure...so much so that they left the forum.

I'm aware of a few things that people have been sanctioned for which were definitely extremely minor. So I do see your point here. 

But it's not all one way. The abuse I received would certainly have been enough to drive some people off a forum. That's why I was in two minds about it. On the one hand, it was quite plain to me what was going on and despite the poster's intentions, I wasn't upset or hurt by it. (It actually just confirmed in my mind a few points I'd been making.) I didn't feel hugely comfortable reporting it when the poster was obviously way more distressed than I was. I also didn't think I was actually the real cause of the ire, though I'm sure they would disagree. 

But the next time it happens, the person on the receiving end might be more affected by it. Plus it simply isn't the kind of content that I think is conducive to a welcoming and healthy, if sometimes robust, place of discussion. So I debated it internally for maybe an entire ten seconds and decided not to report. But I'm not 100% sure it was the right decision. I guess time will tell.

I think there are times when "mute and block" will do and times when someone needs a dose of "no, you need to learn that this isn't ok just because you're on the internet". The most extreme example of this would be the death and rape threats I've received online (not part of the experience I spoke about above). I'd definitely report those without a qualm. But it's not always so straightforward. 

I suppose we are all a bit prone to thinking that SL/the internet are real and serious only as much as we want them to be...

Edited January 26, 2020 by Amina Sopwith

[Pamela Galli]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

he threads were not evaluated clearly and everybody in the thread got a censure. 

How would you even know any of this non public stuff, Luna?  

I never get censured and I participate in many locked threads. I am just too damned sweet natured. 😌

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

That said... a lot of 'lively debates' are really just pile-ons against someone - who may either be in the wrong or just not being rightly rational at that moment. When I hear 'lively debate' I tend to be suspicious

Well when I use the term "lively debate" I don't mean flaming or a pile-on for sure.   I mean....debate. And it can get intense, but is never abusive.

[LittleMe Jewell]

I've had time-outs for a couple of things that I thought were really pretty minor. There have also been times when I've had posts removed but didn't get in trouble for it, and I've counted myself lucky because I was getting a bit riled up and possibly was pushing the line a bit too much.

I think forum moderation is very likely difficult at the best of times.  Definitely not a job I'd want - at least not being the person that makes those final decisions. 

[Luna Bliss]

4 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

the person on the receiving end might be more affected by it

That's true...it could be a better choice to simply report another as opposed to leaving the forum if one was that bothered by a poster. This would not be out of vindictiveness, which is what I'm against.

[Amina Sopwith]

1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I think forum moderation is very likely difficult at the best of times.  Definitely not a job I'd want - at least not being the person that makes those final decisions. 

God I'd hate to be a mod. I was asked a couple of times back in my RP days but always declined. 

[Pamela Galli]

7 minutes ago, Jagix Linden said:

 

Everyone is obligated to follow the Terms & Conditions (which includes the Community Standards, among other policies). You're not, per se, obligated to report people who aren't, but it'd be sort of like going, "Man, there's a lot of crime here! Someone should call the police, but not me, because I'm not a snitch!" We're here to help and make those determinations.

Follow the rules, report people who you think aren't doing that, and we'll make that determination. There's no penalty for being wrong on either end; mass reporting to get someone suspended isn't a thing, and you're not going to get in trouble for being wrong about your report, unless it's really clear that you're submitting false reports to purposefully clog up the reporting systems.

Thanks to you and all mods for making it possible for this forum to be the valuable resource it is! 

[Pussycat Catnap]

16 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I think forum moderation is very likely difficult at the best of times.  Definitely not a job I'd want - at least not being the person that makes those final decisions. 

I've had that job before and it was difficult. But in my case because our forum's biggest abuser was the CEO of the company... but yeah... when you've got a vile racist troll on your forums and he's the one paying everyone's salary... not easy... That noted... back about 5-8 years ago when I was doing this; the bigger problem was spam bots. I guess the tech has gotten better now because I've not seen them show up here in this forum for a few years.

But I used to wake up every morning to a few thousands posts full of random keywords, avatar pics of college women in alluring poses, and... shoe ads... something about mixing shoe ads with spammy keywords... and my moderator queue would have 10,000+ posts that my last set of filters had managed to catch... every day was 2-3 hours of writing new filters to stop the 1000 that got through, only to see them find a new method the next day...

It wasn't even my real job. It was a side project I volunteered for thinking it would be fun and easy and a way to learn forum software... /oops...

That old boss BTW... years before it became a thing in RL politics, he walked around in slacks, polo shirt, light 'sports jacket' and a red hat... First time I saw a MAGA-hat I did a double take... 😮

 

I have that respect for forums mods now that a soldier who's done one tour in a warzone has when they see a vet who's been on 10+ tours. Not sure if I should salute them, pity them, or run away in terror...

 

Edited January 26, 2020 by Pussycat Catnap

[Luna Bliss]

21 minutes ago, Jagix Linden said:

You're not, per se, obligated to report people who aren't

That's good, Jagix.....if you change it to where we are forced to report our fellow SL residents though I want some cold hard cash for that job     

[Orwar]

   Aren't people already doing this, though? If I come across a post that's overly hateful, flaming or spammy, I'll just give the report button a nudge and usually leave it at that, or occasionally comment with some context of why I perceive the post as being in the wrong. But I wouldn't dream of running around policing the forums; most days I just skim over the thread titles to see if anything interests me, if not, I'll just mark the board as read and move on to the next - there are only so many 'Help me make a mesh avatar because I can't be bothered to read any of the dozens of threads on this precise topic' or 'Serve me a loving partner/sugardaddy on a silver platter because I'm entitled to one' threads that I can be bothered to sift through.

[Amina Sopwith]

Ok, so supposing someone directs a post at you that is quite undeniably abusive. Is it right to report it if you're genuinely distressed by it, and worried that they may go on to do it to other people? Does it become wrong if you really aren't personally fussed about it, but make the report out of spite?

I suppose you could argue that if they're that bad all the time, they'll eventually get sanctioned...but not if everyone they abuse is too worried about being a snitch or a coward or spiteful or otherwise evil to report.

 

 

[Orwar]

1 minute ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Ok, so supposing someone directs a post at you that is quite undeniably abusive. Is it right to report it if you're genuinely distressed by it, and worried that they may go on to do it to other people? Does it become wrong if you really aren't personally fussed about it, but make the report out of spite?

I suppose you could argue that if they're that bad all the time, they'll eventually get sanctioned...but not if everyone they abuse is too worried about being a snitch or a coward or spiteful or otherwise evil to report.

   No one's going to know whether you reported it or not, someone else may perceive it as abusive even if they themselves are not the specific target of the post and report it anyway. Whether it's a first and only offense, or someone you know to be abusive in general, it's probably worth reporting them - if the moderators find it to be against the rules, then they'll dispatch a warning or put them in the freezer, and they'll know not to do it again.

   ... Speaking of, though, it would be nice if receiving a warning actually came up as a notification or even a PM. The one warning I've gotten I only discovered by chance when looking at my own forum profile after getting a 'follower' notification. 

[Pamela Galli]

5 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Ok, so supposing someone directs a post at you that is quite undeniably abusive. Is it right to report it if you're genuinely distressed by it, and worried that they may go on to do it to other people? Does it become wrong if you really aren't personally fussed about it, but make the report out of spite?

I suppose you could argue that if they're that bad all the time, they'll eventually get sanctioned...but not if everyone they abuse is too worried about being a snitch or a coward or spiteful or otherwise evil to report.

 

 

It’s right to report anything that looks like it breaks the rules, and as Jaxgic says, they will sort it out. 
See something, say something. 
 

[Luna Bliss]

8 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Ok, so supposing someone directs a post at you that is quite undeniably abusive. Is it right to report it if you're genuinely distressed by it, and worried that they may go on to do it to other people? Does it become wrong if you really aren't personally fussed about it, but make the report out of spite?

I suppose you could argue that if they're that bad all the time, they'll eventually get sanctioned...but not if everyone they abuse is too worried about being a snitch or a coward or spiteful or otherwise evil to report.

Lots of gray areas there.

I would confront them immediately and tell them I found their comment abusive.

If they continued with abusive comments then I'd report them.

[Orwar]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

I would confront them immediately and tell them I found their comment abusive.

   I would advise against that, as this behavior might be perceived as a personal dispute, which you aren't supposed to bring up on the forums - and may net you a warning, if you're caught by a moderator that hasn't been properly caffeinated.