Luna Bliss Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Orwar said: 6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I would confront them immediately and tell them I found their comment abusive. I would advise against that, as this behavior might be perceived as a personal dispute, which you aren't supposed to bring up on the forums - and may net you a warning, if you're caught by a moderator that hasn't been properly caffeinated. lol I was just thinking of how to tell Amina to scratch that, as I remember telling someone here that her father was abusive (and he was...if indeed the situation we were discussing was accurately occurring in the way I perceived and meant), and I got a censure/point/whatever for that So what could Amina say?......... "I would appreciate kinder comments directed toward me" lol * I don't think one reply would be perceived as a dispute...said once and then dropped. Edited January 26, 2020 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 18 minutes ago, Orwar said: there are only so many 'Help me make a mesh avatar because I can't be bothered to read any of the dozens of threads on this precise topic' or 'Serve me a loving partner/sugardaddy on a silver platter because I'm entitled to one' threads that I can be bothered to sift through. But what if I want a mesh sugardaddy avatar for a partner? Ya'll gotta help me with that. NOW!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwar Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 8 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said: But what if I want a mesh sugardaddy avatar for a partner? Ya'll gotta help me with that. NOW!!! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted January 26, 2020 Author Share Posted January 26, 2020 2 hours ago, cheesecurd said: It is neither really our duty nor is it always beneficial to follow the TOS perfectly and try to enforce it upon others. The forums would be quite a bland place otherwise. Welcome to the internet, not everyone is nice and not everyone is going to be nice upon request. I realize you are very new to the forums, and think of it as “the internet” where it doesn’t matter what you say. But to many of us, this is our community, and like most communities, online and off, if someone is not willing to abide by our rules, and click Agree somewhere, they are not welcome. They should go where they support the rules and abide by them. I know that may sound mean but as Jaxig says, the rules are there for US, because this is our community. And it’s not a bland one. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwar Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Pamela Galli said: the rules are there for US I demand equal rules and rights for the EU! ... Ahem. Do continue. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelindaN Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 From the outside, to a newbie, this place sometimes resembles a tag wrestling ring....... All I would say is to bear in mind who's lurking and whether what is said will encourage or discourage them to post here. I always try to post as if you're all in the same room as me in RL...... And handing out black pudding with brown sauce.....😋 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolya Ugajin Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said: Requesting people follow basic rules of conduct and civility is not the same thing as censorship. You can express disagreement by, stating your stance as I have done just now - or blasting a whole cesspool of vulgarity and paranoid accusations... In both cases you can get your opinion out there. Requesting people follow "rules of conduct and civility" is not. Reporting that which you disagree with because it is "flaming", etc. so THEY can censor you is indeed censorship. As far as vulgarity goes, it is automatically censored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 6 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said: Reporting that which you disagree with because it is "flaming", etc. so THEY can censor you is indeed censorship. No, “that which you disagree with” is not flaming. From the CG: No Flaming: "Flames" are hostile or disruptive posts, or messages intended to incite an angry response. Spirited discussion and constructive disagreement are welcome, but name-calling and airing of grievances are not appropriate in our discussion areas. We will also not tolerate any post that encourages others to violate any policy of Linden Lab. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar Legion Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Point blank: The way the ToS, CS and the actual guidelines are enforced is rather spotty at best and downright biased at worst. There is a reason I liken it to enforced civility at times ... Indeed, a response of mine in the last few months - a response to a user who was being hostile to another - was removed while the post it was responding to was left standing. That is not the first time such has happened. There are also those here that have managed to skirt on by - for years and across several iterations of the forum - with "cleverly" veiled insults, flames and such. For some of these, it is their MO. Mind it would help a great deal moderation wise if the forum system and the main account system were decoupled as far as banning goes. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Solar Legion said: There are also those here that have managed to skirt on by - for years and across several iterations of the forum - with "cleverly" veiled insults, flames and such. Exactly. Now is that so hard? You don’t have to give up insulting people, just be smart enough to cleverly veil it! Edited January 27, 2020 by Pamela Galli 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar Legion Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Just now, Pamela Galli said: Exactly. Now is that so hard? The point was that many of these should not still be here. Further I will again point to the enforced civility gripe. Life isn't sunshine, lollipops and rainbows. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Solar Legion said: . Life isn't sunshine, lollipops and rainbows. You don’t know me very well. 🤬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 1 hour ago, BelindaN said: And handing out black pudding with brown sauce.....😋 Surely this is a reportable offense...😆 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 7 minutes ago, Solar Legion said: The point was that many of these should not still be here. Well I don’t think anyone has claimed that moderation is inerrant. If people want to insult others in the aforementioned “cleverly veiled” way, more power to them. Cleverly veiled insults are not flames, (and can be quite entertaining). However only clever people can cleverly veil anything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar Legion Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 6 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said: You don’t know me very well. 🤬 That was meant more for the way some - including staff - seem to act where moderation and general attitude is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said: If people want to insult others in the aforementioned “cleverly veiled” way, more power to them. Cleverly veiled insults are not flames, (and can be quite entertaining). However only clever people can cleverly veil anything. So you don't actually believe in the value of treating others with respect, in sorting out conflicts without flaming and name-calling? This is all just a game for you? Edited January 27, 2020 by Luna Bliss 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar Legion Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 We'll have to agree to disagree, Pamela. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolya Ugajin Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said: No, “that which you disagree with” is not flaming. From the CG: No Flaming: "Flames" are hostile or disruptive posts, or messages intended to incite an angry response. Spirited discussion and constructive disagreement are welcome, but name-calling and airing of grievances are not appropriate in our discussion areas. We will also not tolerate any post that encourages others to violate any policy of Linden Lab. That is filled with subjective words which, by definition, means it is indeed "that which you disagree with. To whit: Hostile: Who determines if it is hostile? Surely I've said things on many occasions some thought were hostile. You're far more polite than I, but surely some could have perceived hostility on one of two of your posts over the years. Distruptive: Who determines if it is disruptive? Intended: Who determines intent? I seldom intend hostility, but to someone who perceives themselves and subject of hostility, their perception is likely all they care about when they click that button. Encourages: Who determines whom is being encouraged to do what and how, and who is is say whether it is indeed encouragement? It's not something to argue over. The CG, TOS, are being set by an omnipotent (in terms of SL and this forum, anyway) dictator, however benign or malevolent. I accept that, and so should everyone else - it's the price of playing the game, as it were. If someone disagrees with what I, or anyone else, says, and finds it hostile or disruptive and disagrees with my intentions, then they are free to report it, and if some random anonymous minion of LL, who may be fair minded or may just be having a bad day, agrees, then what has been said will be censored, and, possibly, that person will be banned. The chilling effect is minimal, but it is there, which is one of the dangers of censorship. If any speech is prohibited, regardless of intentions, then speech is not in fact free. I'm rather an absolutist about that But, in this case, all one risks losing by bucking authority is a distraction from RL. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Solar Legion said: We'll have to agree to disagree, Pamela. Well I agree with, support, and help monitor the Community Guidelines. If you don’t, you should post about it in the Forum Feedback. Or find a forum whose guidelines you support. Edited January 27, 2020 by Pamela Galli 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolya Ugajin Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 23 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said: But anyone can report a post that they FEEL violates the forum guidelines. You made my point perfectly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said: Well I agree with, support, and help monitor the Community Guidelines. If you don’t, you should post about it in the Forum Feedback. Or find a forum whose guidelines you support. Buy why do you? It doesn't fit with your view that it's okay to be veiled creeps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolya Ugajin Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 This is a great thread, by the way. Clearly lots of interest with 3+ pages in 5 hours. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar Legion Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said: Well I agree with, support, and help monitor the Community Guidelines. If you don’t, you should post about it in the Forum Feedback. It's quite clear where Linden Lab stands on the matter so I'm not going to waste my time giving feedback that simply gets circular filed. Your tone and choice of words suggests you're not quite tracking.understanding what I have said thus far so again, we'll have to agree to disagree. I'd much appreciate however, that you did not make it sound as though disagreeing with spotty enforcement (among other issues) somehow equates to disagreement as a whole along with lack of support ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 22 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said: This is a great thread, by the way. Clearly lots of interest with 3+ pages in 5 hours. And is it suffering being deprived of the oxygen of flaming and trolling? No it is not. Discussion is spirited enough and I doubt anyone is missing the name calling. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 37 minutes ago, Solar Legion said: I'd much appreciate however, that you did not make it sound as though disagreeing with spotty enforcement (among other issues) somehow equates to disagreement as a whole along with lack of support .. Well seriously Solar, how would you deal with moderation to make it more consistent? Do you have some algorithm or something else that would obviate fallible human judgment? I mentioned Forum Feedback because that’s where it has been discussed before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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