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Haselden

Do you get lower complexity using baked on Mesh vs Onion Avatar?

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57 minutes ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

Good lord this is complicated.

As long as you stick to one system or the other... it's really not.

  1. If you're using BOM, just wear system layers from your inventory and never think about appliers again.
  2. Or, stick with appliers like you've done so far.

Only when you start mixing these two ways of doing things, it gets slightly complicated because you have to make sure you don't use an applier on the same thing that BOM is on.

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Good to hear Catwa has finally released a BOM, I use that head on my alt account and will have to remember to log in and update. Don't put too much effort into worrying about complexity either way, in my experience, avatar clothing affects it more than the avatar itself and well this need to pander to people who don't use decent equipment to access SL is beyond me, which is essentially what it is about and something that will stifle progress in the long run.

Don't ignore the other benefits of BOM, mesh was always limited compared to the system avi in terms of layers, BOM brings back the flexibility to add more detail and personalization to a mesh avatar without those onion layers, which in themselves had to be limited. Not to mention, I think I am right in saying that Catwa uses the same UV layout as the system avi, which means, you are no longer limited to skins which only come with catwa appliers. Please correct me if I am wrong on that as misinformation is the plague of the internet.

 

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On 12/27/2019 at 6:07 AM, ChinRey said:

It's not my word really, for the most part I'm only the messenger here.

The fact that the render complexity for fitted mesh was off, was failry obvious for anybody to see....

Omg lol what a cool new SL only word = FAILRY 😃😆😍

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7 minutes ago, Maryanne Solo said:

Omg lol what a cool new SL only word = FAILRY 😃😆😍

Kind of like..sucksessful!

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On 12/25/2019 at 2:16 PM, Haselden said:

Catwa has finally released their baked-on-mesh update for male avatars. And I was wondering before I finally try baked on mesh. Will this also lower my complexity for my avatar drastically? Compared to the normal onion avatars we use now?

Only if the BOM item actually removed the onion layers.

To my knowledge no one has done that save perhaps the newest Slink body...

Everyone is actually just keeping the Onion layers, and baking BOM onto one of them... which is basically the definition of /fail...

 

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43 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

To my knowledge no one has done that save perhaps the newest Slink body...

Just to confirm, my understanding is that Slink Redux does not have onion layers.

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40 minutes ago, moirakathleen said:

Just to confirm, my understanding is that Slink Redux does not have onion layers.

That's what @Nalates Urriah MAY HAVE said in another thread.

Pinging her to here so she can verify if that's what was meant. If it is, then it becomes the ONLY actual BOM body. If not... then it would be another example of /fail... Hopefully it did remove the onions... so we have a right proper example for others to follow.

That said, I noted here:

Quote

Their new BOM body skin... is misaligned. My belly button was located out of place and stretched vertically to the point where it looked like a second genital area painted there...

- BOM is becoming a place for skin updates to /fail... by having a UV map that doesn't align to the body...
- the blame for that, rests... I don't know where...

 

Edited by Pussycat Catnap

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3 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Only if the BOM item actually removed the onion layers.

...

Everyone is actually just keeping the Onion layers, and baking BOM onto one of them... which is basically the definition of /fail...

I wish I could believe that was a joke. So, the worst of both worlds it is then?

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5 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

I wish I could believe that was a joke. So, the worst of both worlds it is then?

At least unlike bad physics or bad response to shape dials... this is fixable... but requires people that those makers will listen to getting their attention on it...

What I am seeing is they're just putting out a HUD that applies the BOM-texture to the skin layer... and calling it a day...

Belleza's HUD is a third party one... and I am just hoping that I can believe their CSR who says they're working on their own thing... but it's quite possible that they too will fail on this...

 

Edited by Pussycat Catnap

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I wear the Slink Redux body update and can confirm that it does NOT have the onion layers. It also drops the crazy-quilt of alpha-cuts geometry, relying exclusively on alpha-mask texture layers (which are, of course, infinitely more flexible than the alpha-cuts kludge) whereas other (male) meshes still offer both alpha-cuts and proper alpha masking (well, Signature does, I haven't bothered checking my Belleza-wearing alt, and Legacy seems to be generations behind as best I can grok the Ryan Schultz review Strawberry referenced earlier today).

Female mesh? I know Slink's female Redux update does as expected like the male, but have no information about any of the other bodies.

[EDIT: After I posted, I re-checked that Ryan Schultz review and he added a link to Legacy's update page: they appear to have the "onion skin" variety of BoM because they still support appliers, so... I mean, you're welcome to investigate that one yourself; I just can't bother with Legacy, sorry.]

Edited by Qie Niangao
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27 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

I know Slink's female Redux update does as expected like the male, but have no information about any of the other bodies.

I checked the Slink Hourglass and it does indeed. The original onion layer one has 36,620 vertices and 45,543 triangles which is already amazingly low compared to most fitted mesh I've seen. The new BOM version has only 12,000 vertices and 15,388 triangles.

This is without hands and feet so we compare those figures directly to other mesh bodies but even so, it's in a class of its own. I mean, Maitreya is amazingly low poly for fitted mesh but Slink is only half its polycount and still looks as good as any other brand. If all fitmesh makers were as good as Slink's and LL could fix the fitmesh LoD bugs, we would hardly have to worry about fitmesh lag at all.

 

1 hour ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

What I am seeing is they're just putting out a HUD that applies the BOM-texture to the skin layer... and calling it a day...

That's sad to hear. Hopefully they'll produce a proper upgrade soon.

Between them, my alts use three different brands of fitted mesh bodies and body parts:

  • Cherry Bombs seems to be doing it right: proper non-onion BOM and apparently automatic redelivery to all old users.
  • Slink is doing it half right: proper non-onion BOM but not automatic redelivery so it'll probably take a while before the existing users upgrade.
  • Maitreya hasn't upgraded to BOM at all as far as I know. That's a little bit worrying but at least they have refrained from releasing a "fake" upgrade.
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On 12/27/2019 at 1:19 AM, Maryanne Solo said:

Catwho? lol Go with a serious creator who got it right the first time. *ducks laughing.

OK you all made me say this - DUUUUUUUH!.
SLink ❤️ 4 eva~! \0/

Slink Resident - CSR, on ANY query, looks up your whole Slink history and presents you with what possible options you might choose AND technical advice regarding same. No wonder they're the best. 
*I have NO affiliations or financial interest whatever.

Edited by Maryanne Solo
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On 1/12/2020 at 1:15 AM, Wulfie Reanimator said:
On 1/12/2020 at 12:19 AM, Zak Westminster said:

The problem I see at the moment (and please correct me if I am wrong) but the mesh bodies and skins that have been updated to be BOM compatible do not actually provide any savings because they still have the onion skins there for those who wish to continue to use appliers.

Only once the onion skin layers are removed form the mesh heads and bodies will the true benefits be realised but that is quite a way off.

That's kind of correct, but it's a little more nuanced.

If an avatar changes from using onion layers (assuming every layer has a unique texture on it) to onion layers (same textures) + BOM for skin, there's no difference. Once you begin adding tattoos and makeup with BOM, the value of that feature goes up even if it still takes "as many textures as before" to render you. The body is now displaying more detail that it wasn't able to before, but without any additional cost to anyone's viewer.

One of the (I think) two main goals of BOM was to reduce texture load. As long as people are using BOM with more than one layer, that's achieved.

The other main goal was to reduce onion layers, but that's going to take longer to achieve because it relies on creators removing backwards-compatibility or maintaining multiple versions of mesh bodies which takes more work.

Reposting from another thread.

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator

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