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Deploy Plan for the week of 2019-08-26

Bugsly Linden

By Bugsly Linden,
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Bugsly Linden

Bugsly Linden

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Second Life Server:

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/19#19.08.06.529800 (no roll)

Second Life RC BlueSteel:

https://releasenotes.secondlife.com/simulator/2019-08-23T17%3A54%3A14.530353.html 

Scheduled Wednesday 2019-08-28 07:00-10:30 PDT

Second Life RC LeTigre:

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_LeTigre/19#19.08.23.530380 

Scheduled Wednesday 2019-08-28 07:00-10:30 PDT

Second Life RC Magnum:

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/19#19.08.23.530380

Scheduled Wednesday 2019-08-28 07:00-10:30 PDT

On Region Restarts:

Regions will be restarted if they have been running for more than 10 days on Tuesday (Main Channel) and Wednesday (RCs) regardless of whether or not new code is being deployed, for the general health and well being of the Simulators. Nothing beats turning it off and then on again ... once in a while.

As always please plan events around these maintenance windows. However, if you are hosting an event on Tuesday or Wednesday when we're not deploying new code, you can restart your region ahead of time to avoid interruptions.

Edited by Steven Linden
Updating to point to new release notes website
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Aishagain

Aishagain

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*sigh

OK Roll up , Roll up for the rolling restart sweepstake:  What am I bid?  Do I hear three?  Did you say Four, Sir?  I am bid four now...any advance?.  Look out for Zulus, they need their internals fixed, apparently.

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Qie Niangao

Qie Niangao

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For now at least, you'll still be able to determine that your Region is on some RC by the fact that it rolls on Wednesday rather than Tuesday (it would be nice to get all rolls onto just one day or otherwise disassociate roll days from whether or not they're on an RC … we'd like to get there eventually), and by comparing the simulator version strings (which are getting a small format change with this version) to the versions in the release notes.

So, basically, a "channel" is an Operations convenience; for the rest of us, all that matters is which version the sim is running. Okay.

Quote

we hear interesting but incorrect assumptions that are made about those channel names, such as that one channel runs on better (or worse) hardware than another one does 

Oh really?

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Whirly Fizzle

Whirly Fizzle

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1 hour ago, Grumpity Linden said:

pssst actually, this one is maybe quite exciting: 

No sorry.  I don't see any improvements in that blog post.
All I see is a bunch of changes that's just going to make it more difficult to know WTF is actually going on with the server side.

Lets just remove all the RC & Project viewer names too, to "improve" things further.

giphy.gif

 

 

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Qie Niangao

Qie Niangao

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I'm curious what this weekly deployment plan will look like, once region RCs aren't named anymore. Like, just a list of versions that'll be distributed around the grid somewhere, but no way to know what's planned for a region of interest?

Assuming channel assignments aren't randomized each week, the reader may be able to deduce that a specific region will get one of the higher-numbered versions because it always does, or won't because it never does.

Affinity groups of regions will become apparent because they almost always end up on the same version.

Maybe residents will nickname those affinity groups. Just for convenience.

🕵️‍♂️

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Ardy Lay

Ardy Lay

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I see false-attributions made to equipment we deploy at work. People think the black boxes work better than the brown ones.  They are the same inside.  I really like the white ones myself but they are also the same inside.  We tried to get the vendor to make transparent housings but they have a real reason not to:  Children poke stuff in the vent slots because they can see inside.

It's the yellow #2 pencil thing all over again!  (Referring to a product trial where other colors of paint were used, all else being equal, people claimed the yellow pencils worked better than the other colors.)

Well, not quite, since the software on the SL servers is slightly different from one version to the next but we do that at work too, when the vendor provides updates we want.  I still wonder why I see more broken black boxes than white or brown.  Oh yeah, we have way more black ones than brown or white ones because they are more popular!  So, false data skew is easy when people make such attributions.

Personally, the only reason I ever cared what channels my regions were in was to match them up to the weekly deployment schedules but even that got old as a game so I won't miss the overt channel names.  Do anything you can to get people to report bugs against code versions, I say.  I can't say how many times I witnessed Oz release a little steam when all a reporter would say is "the latest".....

Edited by Ardy Lay
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Cam Mode

Cam Mode

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"To improve clarity we will be hiding release names from you. We want you to improve things by giving detailed submissions "

Signed , PetroleumProduct Linden      "Good on eyewear, rocks it in Zindra"

 

Example- "I was there - yes THERE , it said Second Life. No I don't know what version I didn't have my decoder ring on - it required an applier. Oh I need to go get a buncha numbers. You know, I don't even know if my region got that last script change change because I DON'T KNOW IF A RC. I don't sit and knit every Tues/Weds morning waiting for rolls to see if I am on a RC.  (Since LL will decide when and if a region is on a RC).  So forget it. "

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Lucia Nightfire

Lucia Nightfire

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We really need more clarity than just "Internal Fixes".

Had there been any mention that 19.08.06.529800 had any "fixes" to anything related to experiences, I might have done testing to make sure that LL didn't break anything, which they did spectacularly because apparently as of now, anything compiled with an experience prior to 19.08.06.529800 will break when shift copied or if the script is dropped into an object. See https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-227526

Edited by Lucia Nightfire
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Aishagain

Aishagain

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I am almost completely lost for words ( I've picked myself up, thanks Whirly!).  I know of at least one parcel owner that has just spent a LOT of RL money to move away from the somewhat capricious RC channel changes in the (seemingly futile) hope of a little more stabilty.  This is one of the worst changes that LL have foisted upon us in years.  It is utterly stupid.

Could LL be so embarrassed about the recent debacles that they are now trying to hide the changes?

Apart from anything else, one upshot of The Lab's avowed intent is that builders will now have avoid TWO days when restarts might interfere with their work rather than just one, since regions will be "arbitrarily" moved between channels as LL see fit.  Won't THAT be popular!

Edited by Aishagain
Grammar correction and additional text
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Qie Niangao

Qie Niangao

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3 hours ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

See https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-227526

For that I owe more thanks than just the emoji: it was quite a puzzle there for a while, how stuff was working even with the script showing it was compiled without the Experience on which it clearly depended. Now I can go back to puzzling over the usual dark mysteries. Thanks again.

And yeah, it would be helpful to know what the "internal fixes" are touching, if they're touching stuff that's esoteric enough to need focused testing. It doesn't only save rework for the Lab but makes the world more stable and predictable for everybody.

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Aishagain

Aishagain

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Sad to say that having looked at how The Lab are handling the above JIRA, my only conclusion (yes, I may be wrong, but that is my privilege) is that LL are going into hiding after a period of greater interaction.

They are idiots.  Clever and talented idiots.

Edited by Aishagain
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Whirly Fizzle

Whirly Fizzle

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Posted

I really miss the days of Oskar & Maestro.
We used to get decent server release notes. Server JIRA issues were handled wondefully & promptly by Maestro where he left detailed comments about how he investigated the bug report - I learned a lot from Maestro's comments on the JIRA. The SBUG meetings were well attended in those days because they were worth going to. Now you're lucky if 3 people attend.

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Cam Mode

Cam Mode

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Someone commented on Inara's blog about staff in regards this issue

"Someone got Peter Principled I think."

Totally agree.

I don't like decisions I disagree with, who does,  but abhor when decisions result in  pointless convoluted messes.  Some people can't get from point A to point B in a straight line in their mind.

I have found you can't teach this, person either thinks clearly- understand the right priorities , or doesn't.

World moves too fast for corkscrew thinking. This platform can't handle this stuff, customers & staff will leave.

Yes Maestro was fabulous, perfectly named.

Buckle your seat belts.

 

 

 

Edited by Cam Mode
clarity
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Aishagain

Aishagain

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Oskar and Maestro were great to work with, I trouble-shot several issues with them in a previous account.  They had one characteristic that set them apart from the other Lindens of that period (and to a regrettable extent, Lindens of this era as well)...they understood SL and its users; granted Oskar sometimes seemed to understand us and LL a little TOO well, that's another story.

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Oz Linden

Oz Linden

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Posted
4 hours ago, Aishagain said:

Apart from anything else, one upshot of The Lab's avowed intent is that builders will now have avoid TWO days when restarts might interfere with their work rather than just one, since regions will be "arbitrarily" moved between channels as LL see fit.  Won't THAT be popular!

We fully appreciate that predictable roll days are important, and that will continue to be a design constraint. Nothing is changing about when rolls happen for some time, and we'll provide ample notice and time for feedback when/if we make any change to that.

4 hours ago, Aishagain said:

I know of at least one parcel owner that has just spent a LOT of RL money to move away from the somewhat capricious RC channel changes in the (seemingly futile) hope of a little more stabilty. 

For a region owner, all that is required to move on to or off of an RC (or any RC) is a support ticket. That will continue to be true.

Sometimes being on an RC is more stable than on the main channel; when we're fixing bugs, that's certainly our objective.

We're going to try to provide more useful information on what is changing in each new server release, but sometimes we just can't - for example, it wouldn't be a good idea for us to describe that we've disabled a particular griefing vector if it's only disabled on one RC.

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Aishagain

Aishagain

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@Oz Linden: Yes, all very well except for a few small points.  Thanks for your words but:

1) On a region with multiple parcel "owners" I understood that ALL the owners had to be in agreement before a channel change could be requested.  Now, if I am wrong then I apologise, we were told this many months ago by support.

2) In future when channel information is not available and regions can be moved from one channel to another at LL's whim, how will we KNOW to ask for a change of channel rather than just a restart or a fresh server?  So far as I can see we would have no way of knowing.

3)   In God's name WHY are you doing this?  To me at least this change makes absolutely no sense.  And Yes, I have read the Tools and Technology Blog post...several times. o.O

Edited by Aishagain
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Oz Linden

Oz Linden

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2 hours ago, Aishagain said:

1) On a region with multiple parcel "owners" I understood that ALL the owners had to be in agreement before a channel change could be requested.  Now, if I am wrong then I apologise, we were told this many months ago by support.

I'm not in Support, so whatever I say must be taken with a grain of salt. My understanding is that the request must come from the region owner. I don't know how they handle mainland and other Linden-owned regions.

2 hours ago, Aishagain said:

2) In future when channel information is not available and regions can be moved from one channel to another at LL's whim, how will we KNOW to ask for a change of channel rather than just a restart or a fresh server?  So far as I can see we would have no way of knowing.

We will continue to post release notes, and link to them from the About Second Life floater; you'll be able to tell what version you're on. If some behavior changes that's causing you a problem then Support will be able to move you off of it, but please file a bug report first so that we can fix it. 

Really, all we're doing so far is to hide the name of the RC; whether or not you're in an RC is not really hidden if you just click through to the release notes.

2 hours ago, Aishagain said:

WHY are you doing this?

It's just one part of a much larger effort to make our simulator evolution more stable. Right now, the RC channels are not very good models of the grid as a whole. Some recent problems got to main channel because they didn't happen (or didn't happen much) in the RCs, or weren't detected when they did. Other parts of this project include much better reporting on what's happening, including things we have not monitored closely before. We're also developing ways of making the RCs more representative of the grid as a whole, but doing that will require being able to change their populations. Our objective is to find problems more quickly and reliably.

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Lucia Nightfire

Lucia Nightfire

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15 minutes ago, Oz Linden said:

Some recent problems got to main channel because they didn't happen (or didn't happen much) in the RCs, or weren't detected when they did. Other parts of this project include much better reporting on what's happening, including things we have not monitored closely before. We're also developing ways of making the RCs more representative of the grid as a whole, but doing that will require being able to change their populations. Our objective is to find problems more quickly and reliably.

We need better clarity what areas fixes/changes entail. Obviously I'm not asking for that to be specific if it is security related. But bug fixes need to be itemized better.

Case in point, Maintenance viewer releases list the bug jiras for things that were allegedly fixed. I then download the viewer and do testing in those areas not only to see if the bug was fixed, but if something else was missed, if other bugs arose from that fix, etc.

Had there been any mention of fixes/changes to experiences, to scripts, to script compiles, to communications between server and experience server, to the experience servers, etc. on server version 19.08.06.529800 I might have detected what broke experience compiled content sooner. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-227526

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