Alyona Su Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Resi Pfeffer said: After 12 years i finally went premium, but now im already cancelling it, Caution: You cannot cancel a premium subscription; you can only *downgrade* your level of service. If you do this you will *immediately* lose your ability to purchase any land whatsoever, though all your other Premium-only benefits will continue until your current period has run out. Just a friendly heads-up so you won't be creating another "LL IS EVIL" thread over something you voluntarily choose to do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Macbain Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, Alyona Su said: Actually, Linden Lab is NOT a Corporation. The purpose of a Corporation is to maximize revenue for *shareholders*. Linden Lab is still, to my understanding, a privately company. So what Luna says is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Actually, Linden Lab's legal name is Linden Research, Inc. "Inc." is an abbreviation for incorporated. Incorporated means "formed into a legal corporation". A corporation doesn't have to be a publicly traded company. I have no idea if LL is an S corporation or a C corporation, but they're most definitely a corporation. As to Luna's assertion that LL is in business to please their customer, I would ask why they need to please their customer? Oh, in order to make money. Pleasing the customer isn't the reason, it's a tool. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resi Pfeffer Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, Alyona Su said: Caution: You cannot cancel a premium subscription; you can only *downgrade* your level of service. If you do this you will *immediately* lose your ability to purchase any land whatsoever, though all your other Premium-only benefits will continue until your current period has run out. I just used the wrong expression, it seems. As long as i can back to the basic user status, everything is fine. Just found out, i have to abandon my Linden Home first, before i can do the downgrade. My private homestead parcel will not be affected, right? 6 minutes ago, Alyona Su said: Just a friendly heads-up so you won't be creating another "LL IS EVIL" thread over something you voluntarily choose to do. Me? No. What i do is to grumble about the non existing SL mobile client from time to time, but never created or contributed to a "LL is evil" thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolig Loon Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Just now, Resi Pfeffer said: 10 minutes ago, Alyona Su said: Caution: You cannot cancel a premium subscription; you can only *downgrade* your level of service. If you do this you will *immediately* lose your ability to purchase any land whatsoever, though all your other Premium-only benefits will continue until your current period has run out. I just used the wrong expression, it seems. As long as i can back to the basic user status, everything is fine. Just found out, i have to abandon my Linden Home first, before i can do the downgrade. My private homestead parcel will not be affected, right? Right. Any SL resident can own a private estate, as I have for many years. Also, any resident may rent land anywhere. Only Premium members may own land in the Mainland estate. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Alyona Su said: Linden Lab is still, to my understanding, a privately company. It appears to be VC's (venture capitalists) at the core of SL, and most likely they want to make as much money as possible in the way that most corporations do. But they can't do that if they don't please the customer. Prok and others expressed repeatedly that the land business is vital to the community -- it's not a faction that should be "run out of SL" -- it fulfills a desire for some customers to be landlords as well as makes more money for LL per sim. Therefore any accusation of "Socialism" towards Prok because landlords needs are taken into account in the equation is false. (directed at Beth, not you) My belief is that no company (even one with shareholders) should have money as their sole goal. That's why we're in such trouble in the world today with climate change -- energy companies placed profit before everything and didn't take into account externalized costs (wrecking the climate and people's lives). Edited September 4, 2019 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said: As to Luna's assertion that LL is in business to please their customer, I would ask why they need to please their customer? Oh, in order to make money. Pleasing the customer isn't the reason, it's a tool. That's a patriarchal notion -- that money or getting as much as one can from others is king, and all else follows from that core principle. Society should not be structured in this way. Businesses should focus on how they can best serve society with their skills, and the money will follow. * And businesses were structured more this way in the past (focused on societal needs as much as money-making). This shareholder business should have died long ago before it caused what's about to go down globally in the not-too-distant future. Edited September 4, 2019 by Luna Bliss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyona Su Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said: Actually, Linden Lab's legal name is Linden Research, Inc. "Inc." is an abbreviation for incorporated. Incorporated means "formed into a legal corporation". A corporation doesn't have to be a publicly traded company. I have no idea if LL is an S corporation or a C corporation, but they're most definitely a corporation. As to Luna's assertion that LL is in business to please their customer, I would ask why they need to please their customer? Oh, in order to make money. Pleasing the customer isn't the reason, it's a tool. I defer to this: https://www.diffen.com/difference/Corp_vs_Inc. Now let us be clear: Linden Lab is not a corporation, neither is it incorporated. However, Linden Lab is a subsidiary of Linden Research, Inc. THAT company is incorporated. Splitting hairs? Perhaps, but I have always, still do, and always will believe that specific words have specific meaning. By not saying what one means, yet meaning what one says is how misinformation happens. In the end, what @Luna Bliss says is still most relevant and true. Edited September 4, 2019 by Alyona Su 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyona Su Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 18 minutes ago, Resi Pfeffer said: My private homestead parcel will not be affected, right? Correct - if you own an estate it is not affected because it is considered a wholly separate product that you are buying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Macbain Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: That's a patriarchal notion -- that money or getting as much as one can from others is king, and all else follows from that core principle. Society should not be structured in this way. Businesses should focus on how they can best serve society with their skills, and the money will follow. Okay, but we're not talking about should. We're talking about reality. To the venture capitalists sitting on LL's board, we are just all little faceless dollar signs that come together in one big dollar sign. It's my understanding that LL employees are granted shares of LL, and I do people that many of them do want the residents to be happy because they're pretty groovy people, but the people at the top? It's about money. Happy employee shareholders that make happy residents make happy money for the happy board. If the happy residents weren't bringing in that happy money, it would be a very unhappy board. Mind you, I'm all for reform and changing the world into a blissful utopia where companies or corporations or whatever you want to call them care about benefiting society, but we're probably further away from that right now than we've ever been. I hope we're in the darkness before the dawn. I hate that a very few people have all the money and it's at the expense of their employees who are forced to be the working poor. I hate that there are people who have to work two or three jobs just to support their families while the company CEO makes millions upon millions of dollars that they could never, ever spend in a single lifetime. I think it's ridiculous and inhumane, and I absolutely think it should be capped. Prok will call me a socialist for that. I call it being human and caring about the welfare of others. Again, though, sadly the reality of the corporate world is about the bottom line, and that bottom line is money. I don't like it, either. And, @Alyona Su, I defer to this: Incorporate Definition Neither of us are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nika Talaj Posted September 4, 2019 Author Share Posted September 4, 2019 9 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said: It's my understanding that LL employees are granted shares of LL I assume you mean options, not shares? That is, the option to purchase shares at a fixed price in the unlikely event that the company should go public. Or be acquired ... usually an acquisition deal will have provisions for option holders to trade them in for shares or options of the acquiring company. LL is still a venture-funded company, but way past being a startup. Should the VR portion of the business ever thrive, I could totally see the board spinning off SL into, basically, a small business, and selling the remaining VR company. Venture capitalists do not make money when LL makes money, there is no 'revenue-sharing'. They make money at the endgame ... at the NASDAQ opening bell, or at an acquisition closing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Macbain Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 12 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said: I assume you mean options, not shares? That is, the option to purchase shares at a fixed price in the unlikely event that the company should go public. Or be acquired ... usually an acquisition deal will have provisions for option holders to trade them in for shares or options of the acquiring company. LL is still a venture-funded company, but way past being a startup. Should the VR portion of the business ever thrive, I could totally see the board spinning off SL into, basically, a small business, and selling the remaining VR company. Venture capitalists do not make money when LL makes money, there is no 'revenue-sharing'. They make money at the endgame ... at the NASDAQ opening bell, or at an acquisition closing. Yes, sorry, stock options. Those are interesting points you make, and are correct about, when it comes to the VCs making money. I'm assuming that the ones on the board have invested in LL. That could lead us to believe that there are either discussions about taking LL public, or actively seeking to sell. But all that sort of speculation really takes us into the weeds, since none of us know what is discussed at board meetings, and I doubt they're willing to share their meeting minutes with us. Oh, to be a fly on the wall, though... 😝 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyona Su Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) Well, regardless of how Linden Research and Linden Lab are legally organized, the Belliserria effect on private estates still will be minimal, I believe. Edited September 4, 2019 by Alyona Su Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvia Tamalyn Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 I'm kinda surprised this thread hasn't been locked yet, so... I (again) BTL. 💃 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyona Su Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 54 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said: I'm kinda surprised this thread hasn't been locked yet, so... I (again) BTL. 💃 Do you mean IBL? What is BTL? IBL is "In Before Lock" LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Macbain Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said: I'm kinda surprised this thread hasn't been locked yet, so... I (again) BTL. 💃 I cannot tell you how much I really wish it would be. I suppose I could just stop looking at it... Yeah, it's Livvy from Xanadu, the greatest movie of the 80s... #hatersgonnahate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvia Tamalyn Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 45 minutes ago, Alyona Su said: Do you mean IBL? What is BTL? IBL is "In Before Lock" LOL You must have missed the "I" I typed before the word "again". Look again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyecu2 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said: I'm kinda surprised this thread hasn't been locked yet, so... I (again) BTL. 💃 those in charge of locking it up probably haven't gotten through page 2 yet. :-) 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nika Talaj Posted September 4, 2019 Author Share Posted September 4, 2019 /me kicks this silly forum setup, won't let OPs lock their own threads, HMPF 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Macbain Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said: /me kicks this silly forum setup, won't let OPs lock their own threads, HMPF I've reported my own threads before when they've gotten out of hand. Not suggesting you do that... this thread isn't nearly as ugly as many I've seen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Marbach Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Maybe BTL is 'Before The Lock' ... LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyecu2 Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 I found everything about this thread rather fascinating and very educational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Kristin Linden Posted September 5, 2019 Administrators Share Posted September 5, 2019 Welp, since the OP of this thread has indicated they would like this locked I'm going to go ahead and do so. (@Nika Talaj If you'd like it reopened just shoot me a message & let me know!) 5 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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