Read Between The Lines

[Aimi Amore]

Hopefully this helps a lot of people. I will try to break this down to the best of my ability. if you feel something is wrong, dont be afraid to correct a part.

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Effective August 1, in order to continue using Second Life you will have to agree to Tilia’s Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.  A Tilia Account associated with your Second Life Account will automatically be created for you and you will not need a separate username or password to access your Tilia Account.  

EVERYONE on Second life is getting a Tilia Account whether we like it or not and to continue playing second life, we just have to agree to the services and policy just as we agreed to Second life terms of service and policy. Simple. 

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In order to stay in compliance with regulatory requirements, if you wish to process a credit, we will need certain personal information to verify your identity, including your name, address, date of birth, and social security number (or government-issued identification if you are not a U.S. Citizen). 

First and foremost, processing credit means you are taking your Linden Dollars and turning them into US Dollars. Secondly, if you really want to do that, you will need to provide the following information stated above for the transaction payout. For non-US Citizen, if you wish to do the same, you will need to provide things like a passport or maybe mail with your full name and address on it. 

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As always, Second Life remains free to access and enjoy!  However, if your Tilia Account is inactive for a period of 12 months we will charge your Tilia Account a fee to the extent permitted by applicable law.

For those who do process credit on a normal basis, this statement is clear as day and you can read furthermore about it in the Tilia's Terms of services. 

Im almost positive this has nothing to do with buying lindens, paying tier, etc because all of that is still in LINDEN DOLLARS not USD. Hopefully this helped a lot of people better understand the upcoming changes as far as for people outside of US and for anyone in general that process credit, look further into that because i see a lot of people not trying to give out they SSN and thats totally understandable. 

 

-Meek🖤

[bigmoe Whitfield]

How ever as answered by LL already.  They are not taking out any fee's if you have a zero BALANCE in tilla.   

If they live in the us and want to cash out they will have to provide what the US Goverment wants from LL, if not. that's their choice, but they will not be able to do cash outs.  it's quite simple. got to play by the laws of the land to keep getting paid.

[Adam Spark]

Correct. The inactivity fee is no different than the same clause on the back of many gift credit cards. After a year or so, a nominal amount comes out of that card. But if there is nothing left, you won't be charged a dime. It is only applied to unattended to funds in that account or on that card.

And unlike the credit card fee, simply checking your Tilia balance once a year will negate any money loss. Consider it a bank fee for holding onto your money.

I will say this, however - Linden Lab needs to do a better job at communicating these things upfront. We do lose people when these things happen. I know the gut reaction is to tell those people good riddance for their fear mongering, but anyone doing anything of consequence in Second Life should loathe the sight of any resident departure.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Adam Spark

[Oz Linden]

14 hours ago, iMeeky said:

First and foremost, processing credit means you are taking your Linden Dollars and turning them into US Dollars.

That is incorrect. The term 'process credit' means withdrawing your US Dollars (transferring them to PayPal, Skrill, or any other outside institution).

Please see this thread for official clarifications.

[Allen Parks]

On ‎7‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 5:45 PM, iMeeky said:

Hopefully this helps a lot of people. I will try to break this down to the best of my ability. if you feel something is wrong, dont be afraid to correct a part.

EVERYONE on Second life is getting a Tilia Account whether we like it or not and to continue playing second life, we just have to agree to the services and policy just as we agreed to Second life terms of service and policy. Simple. 

First and foremost, processing credit means you are taking your Linden Dollars and turning them into US Dollars. Secondly, if you really want to do that, you will need to provide the following information stated above for the transaction payout. For non-US Citizen, if you wish to do the same, you will need to provide things like a passport or maybe mail with your full name and address on it. 

For those who do process credit on a normal basis, this statement is clear as day and you can read furthermore about it in the Tilia's Terms of services. 

Im almost positive this has nothing to do with buying lindens, paying tier, etc because all of that is still in LINDEN DOLLARS not USD. Hopefully this helped a lot of people better understand the upcoming changes as far as for people outside of US and for anyone in general that process credit, look further into that because i see a lot of people not trying to give out they SSN and thats totally understandable. 

 

-Meek🖤

Meek,

Tilla has actually been there  for the last 3 years.  They did it quietly.  IF you have a Paypal account ,  Paypal already  has your SS #  (They have mine )

[Kyrah Abattoir]

Do we really need a new topic everytime?

[Lancewae Barrowstone]

On 7/4/2019 at 7:10 AM, Kyrah Abattoir said:

Do we really need a new topic everytime?

 

Well yes.  Because isn't the only way to transfer your lindens into your Tilia account a process step done on the cash out page, or whatever that page is called?

And say, you transfer some lindens into this holding Tilia account, but later decide to pull them back out.  What then?  Is there a fee applied? Is it even possible to pull them back?  Has a tax liability occurred once they reach the Tilia account?  No big questions, but is this explained somewhere?

[LittleMe Jewell]

On 7/4/2019 at 5:25 AM, Allen Parks said:

   IF you have a Paypal account ,  Paypal already  has your SS #  (They have mine )

Nope, not necessarily.  PayPay never asked for my SSN and thus doesn't have it.  Ditto for all my friends and family that have PayPal accounts.  

Possibly only for business accounts or accounts that seem to be used for business purposes -- or maybe part of it is the fact that you get cash from LL and/or other companies.

[Allen Parks]

I had to  give it to  them  when I got my debit card  (federal  law requires it )

[LittleMe Jewell]

4 hours ago, Allen Parks said:

I had to  give it to  them  when I got my debit card  (federal  law requires it )

You got a PayPal debit card or got a bank debit card that you gave to PayPal for funding stuff? 

I could see that if it is a PayPal debit card, but would be confused on the requirement if you were simply adding a debit card as a funding source for your PayPal account.

[Solar Legion]

5 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

You got a PayPal debit card or got a bank debit card that you gave to PayPal for funding stuff? 

I could see that if it is a PayPal debit card, but would be confused on the requirement if you were simply adding a debit card as a funding source for your PayPal account.

The way they have it set up now, once you have a bank or similar linked to your PayPal account you must provide the aformentioned information in order to send any money you recieve, out to said financial institution.

Until you do, all you can (or could at the time) do was have money sent to your PayPal from another PayPal or send money out that you had loaded in from Green Dot or other loading systems/locations.

It has been this way for a few years now with minor variations of the process.

[Drayke Newall]

7 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

The way they have it set up now, once you have a bank or similar linked to your PayPal account you must provide the aformentioned information in order to send any money you recieve, out to said financial institution.

Until you do, all you can (or could at the time) do was have money sent to your PayPal from another PayPal or send money out that you had loaded in from Green Dot or other loading systems/locations.

It has been this way for a few years now with minor variations of the process.

Must be different for people not in the USA as all I have ever provided to Paypal is my bank account details then they do a debit check on the account "pretend to take $1 out then cancel" and that's it. Australia don't have a Social Security number but I suppose the equivalent would be our tax file number which even the government says you don't give out to anyone other than your own bank or super fund. Odd that the SSN in the USA isn't similar, seems to be treated like a credit card number instead of a tightly secured number.

[Solar Legion]

1 minute ago, Drayke Newall said:

Must be different for people not in the USA as all I have ever provided to Paypal is my bank account details then they do a debit check on the account "pretend to take $1 out then cancel" and that's it. Australia don't have a Social Security number but I suppose the equivalent would be our tax file number which even the government says you don't give out to anyone other than your own bank or super fund. Odd that the SSN in the USA isn't similar, seems to be treated like a credit card number instead of a tightly secured number.

I'm in the US. I've had friends in the US go through the process I've described.

[Selene Gregoire]

11 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Must be different for people not in the USA as all I have ever provided to Paypal is my bank account details then they do a debit check on the account "pretend to take $1 out then cancel" and that's it. Australia don't have a Social Security number but I suppose the equivalent would be our tax file number which even the government says you don't give out to anyone other than your own bank or super fund. Odd that the SSN in the USA isn't similar, seems to be treated like a credit card number instead of a tightly secured number.

SSNs are for tax purposes in the US same as your tax file number. Up until more recent years your SSN was not considered to be a form of legal ID. That has changed. 

There was a long time, for a while, where you had to provide your SS card as part of the verification process whenever you used a credit card at any store which, at that time (no longer) was a violation of federal statutes.

I don't remember exactly when it changed. I just know I never believed it to be a good idea and still don't. Especially after having my SSN stolen and some jackanape tried to claim me as their wife on their federal tax returns a few years ago and I've never remarried. Now I can't file my taxes until the IRS sends me a new PIN every year for the rest. of. my. life. Thanks a lot @$$hole.

Edited July 12, 2019 by Selene Gregoire
i before e really sucks for me

[LittleMe Jewell]

8 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

The way they have it set up now, once you have a bank or similar linked to your PayPal account you must provide the aformentioned information in order to send any money you recieve, out to said financial institution.

Until you do, all you can (or could at the time) do was have money sent to your PayPal from another PayPal or send money out that you had loaded in from Green Dot or other loading systems/locations.

It has been this way for a few years now with minor variations of the process.

Makes sense that they might need the info for you to take money out of PayPal via to a bank or via a debit card.  I only ever put money into PayPal from my bank.

[Drayke Newall]

11 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

SSNs are for tax purposes in the US same as your tax file number. Up until more recent years your SSN was not considered to be a form of legal ID. That has changed. 

There was a long time, for a while, where you had to provide your SS card as part of the verification process whenever you used a credit card at any store which, at that time (no longer) was a violation of federal statutes.

I don't remember exactly when it changed. I just know I never believed it to be a good idea and still don't. Especially after having my SSN stolen and some jackanape tried to claim me as their wife on their federal tax returns a few years ago and I've never remarried. Now I can't file my taxes until the IRS sends me a new PIN every year for the rest. of. my. life. Thanks a lot @$$hole.

That's just weird, but different countries, different rules I suppose.

We have a different way of proving identity whereby its a point system and you cant rely on just a number or one form of document for identity. Means that a person has to have multiple documents reducing the risk of identity theft. https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/art/Documents/100-point-id-check.pdf

[Selene Gregoire]

8 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

a person has to have multiple documents reducing the risk of identity theft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_documents_in_the_United_States

[Drayke Newall]

10 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_documents_in_the_United_States

The difference is that whilst yes, you have multiple forms of identity, only one from what I can tell is needed to prove your identity. Here the point based system is usually made so that it is highly unlikely someone will be able to provide the total required 100 points from items in a lost wallet as it will require other documents that one generally doesn't carry around.

[Selene Gregoire]

15 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

The difference is that whilst yes, you have multiple forms of identity, only one from what I can tell is needed to prove your identity. Here the point based system is usually made so that it is highly unlikely someone will be able to provide the total required 100 points from items in a lost wallet as it will require other documents that one generally doesn't carry around.

You need at least two, not one. Usually driver's license and certified birth certificate which can only come from the state's bureau of statistics that you were born in and can only be obtained by immediate family members.

Edited July 12, 2019 by Selene Gregoire

[Allen Parks]

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I was referring to getting a PAYPAL debit  card ,  they require your SS#.

I no longer need to cash out with tilla.  Although I will remain in second Life. I might  be Moving to Opensim  or  running my own hypergrid  sim on a spare pc .  I spent 14  years here with a small store but now  It is no longer worth keeping it open.

Linden lab is throwing everything at Sansar  and basically letting all of us pay for what will eventually be a failure . 

I semi retired from Making new stuff here  years ago, Everything was self sustaining until they raised premium prices .  I will not pay for sl any more. 14 years was long enough.

[CandyStarcore]

On 7/12/2019 at 5:47 PM, Drayke Newall said:

Must be different for people not in the USA as all I have ever provided to Paypal is my bank account details then they do a debit check on the account "pretend to take $1 out then cancel" and that's it. Australia don't have a Social Security number but I suppose the equivalent would be our tax file number which even the government says you don't give out to anyone other than your own bank or super fund. Odd that the SSN in the USA isn't similar, seems to be treated like a credit card number instead of a tightly secured number.

Or even such a ssn is only internal used for identification purposes. Otherwise, if someone from the outside of a `providers` country means to file after a year any invoices... that is brash bearing. Kinda weird   

Another major point is the main difference from u.s. to anywhere taxation is that the first use the global income (for u.s. citizens only!) model as many other countries dont have this. So the liability on u.s. residing companies to foreign clients is not legal or valid for a proof of execution outside the usa.

I suggest to move over your headquarters (registered office) to Singapur. It's one of the major banking places in the world and banking secrecy is warranted. Running a business can be tricky, challenging and risky. Or not.

Edited July 31, 2019 by CandyStarcore

[Selene Gregoire]