TMP Legacy mesh body

[Cyanide Pixie]

@AnyaJurelle Legacy was a blessing and a curse. Yes, it gave all of us Maitreya lovers a shiny new option that feels like a more polished version of "us"... but it came with a whole lot of nasty fine print and highlighted all the problems with Maitreya to the point where we feel disappointed if we switch back to what used to be an acceptable body that we were perfectly content with. 

New and improved Maitreya body when? I know it's been teased that a new generation is in the works. My question is whether or not the lackluster parts of the mesh that we now can't unsee can be fixed while maintaining backwards compatibility with our existing wardrobe. I think compatibility would be a must. But if the mesh isn't refined I don't know if I can go back. I've tasted the forbidden fruit.

[Kia Kiyori]

3 minutes ago, Cyanide Pixie said:

@AnyaJurelle Legacy was a blessing and a curse. Yes, it gave all of us Maitreya lovers a shiny new option that feels like a more polished version of "us"... but it came with a whole lot of nasty fine print and highlighted all the problems with Maitreya to the point where we feel disappointed if we switch back to what used to be an acceptable body that we were perfectly content with. 

New and improved Maitreya body when? I know it's been teased that a new generation is in the works. My question is whether or not the lackluster parts of the mesh that we now can't unsee can be fixed while maintaining backwards compatibility with our existing wardrobe. I think compatibility would be a must. But if the mesh isn't refined I don't know if I can go back. I've tasted the forbidden fruit.

Good questions. I hope Maitreya doesn't give up, because I feel sure that someone with a sense of decency and responsibility towards their customers could do better.

[Sammy Huntsman]

2 hours ago, Cyanide Pixie said:

Lurker here (not just to this thread but to the forums in general). I decided to come out of the shadows to add my two cents about the neck seam. There is absolutely a terrible issue with the neck seam. I agree with that 100% and in my humble opinion, it should be something The Shops addresses and fixes without attitude and lies.

 

HOWEVER... one thing I don't recall seeing mentioned here or in reviews (granted, it's been a long thread to read and remember fully), is how good the two piece neck blend is. Pre-Legacy, I thought neck blends were useless junk. Never used them, couldn't stand them. But because of the neck seam issue I decided to play with their blend system and I completely converted. Maybe other blends have been as good and I just didn't give them a chance? I'm not sure. I don't recall having two pieces before the way Legacy does it, and I suspect that makes all the difference. There is a ring you wear around your neck as well as a blend piece in the HUD that blends the collarbone area up to that ring. When you get real up close and personal you can of course see the ring layer slightly raised from your neck, but aside from that you can get shockingly good blends.

 

After a couple of months, I've grown so accustomed to  "Frankensteining" my body skin and head skin with that blend that I wouldn't want to go back to a body that doesn't allow me to do that with similarly stellar results. I have a tendency to really love certain head skins but hate the body skins, so I find it really cool to be able to wear skins by two different makers at once that I really love. I can also report that while certain windlight settings make the ring look dark, the vast majority do not. And I've tested a bunch both with my normal Ultra/Advanced Lighting setting as well as with lower settings and Advanced Lighting turned off. I strongly encourage any Legacy owners struggling with the neck seam to give the blend system a chance if you're like me and used to ignoring them completely.

Actually the neck blend thing is more of a head thing, than a body thing. This is the same issue when mesh heads first started to come out. Most of them didn't have the body to create with, as this was also new itself. I can imagine, when heads start to update to include BOM. Some of them will fix the neck seam issue on the body. I would honestly just give it time. Trust me, I hated when Mesh heads were a new thing, and neck blends were also kinda required. It was so hard to figure the dang thing out. This was before I came out as female, and I had the Catwa Jackson head, and the Slink Physique male body. The neck on the body and the head were terrible, and the seam was so obvious, that I actually wanted to give up on mesh entirely and go back to system. But I pushed forward and perservered and now we have heads that work for the current bodies.

Edited November 4, 2019 by halebore Aeon

[Cyanide Pixie]

Just now, halebore Aeon said:

Actually the neck blend thing is more of a head thing, than a body thing.

Maybe that's why it felt so innovative in a body to me. I think I'm just used to the head ones that are one piece and never work well. Once I figured out the Legacy one was two pieces for even more blendability and had a range of tones, my mind was a little blown. I think having the bottom section seamlessly come off the upper chest/collar bone makes the difference. I do wish the neck ring was a little more snug, but perhaps that's not possible for the range of motion without the actual neck clipping through.

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Cyanide Pixie said:

Maybe that's why it felt so innovative in a body to me. I think I'm just used to the head ones that are one piece and never work well. Once I figured out the Legacy one was two pieces for even more blendability and had a range of tones, my mind was a little blown. I think having the bottom section seamlessly come off the upper chest/collar bone makes the difference. I do wish the neck ring was a little more snug, but perhaps that's not possible for the range of motion without the actual neck clipping through.

Yeah as I said before, it was the same with the mesh heads when they were just brand new. It's basically that all over again. I tend to switch between my Maitreya and Legacy body as it is, because I love what both bodies bring to the table.

[Cyanide Pixie]

1 minute ago, halebore Aeon said:

Yeah as I said before, it was the same with the mesh heads when they were just brand new. It's basically that all over again. I tend to switch between my Maitreya and Legacy body as it is, because I love what both bodies bring to the table.

Is it the same though? I don't recall any neck blends on heads having a second lower blend piece beyond the neck ring. But like I said earlier, I always hated them and found them useless so maybe I just didn't notice. They never worked well for me.

[Sammy Huntsman]

2 minutes ago, Cyanide Pixie said:

Is it the same though? I don't recall any neck blends on heads having a second lower blend piece beyond the neck ring. But like I said earlier, I always hated them and found them useless so maybe I just didn't notice. They never worked well for me.

I am saying that without the neck blends back then, when mesh heads were a brand new thing. The seamage on the body and head was definitely visible. That is why I say give it time, and let heads update, and you will see that you will have heads that fit that body. It's kinda like Aesthetic and normal mesh bodies from back then. If I remember correctly, some head companies had to rig all new heads, just to fit the Aestethic body. I may be wrong, and if someone could correct me on this, that would be great.

[Cyanide Pixie]

@halebore Aeon Ah, gotcha! I misunderstood what you were saying at first. Yeah, I could definitely see it just being an incompatibility with the way the heads fit.

EDIT: And I just noticed now you had edited your comment to be more than the first sentence I quoted, no wonder I was confused! I replied before refreshing so I thought that's all you had said about it, ahahaha!  

Edited November 4, 2019 by Cyanide Pixie

[Sammy Huntsman]

18 hours ago, Cyanide Pixie said:

@halebore Aeon Ah, gotcha! I misunderstood what you were saying at first. Yeah, I could definitely see it just being an incompatibility with the way the heads fit.

EDIT: And I just noticed now you had edited your comment to be more than the first sentence I quoted, no wonder I was confused! I replied before refreshing so I thought that's all you had said about it, ahahaha!  

No problem, but to all the people who have problem with the neck seam. I am sure when your head of choice updates, they will have fixed that issue. Legacy, like TMP came out of nowhere. No one knew it was happening. So it took us all by surprise. Even many creators. But perservere people. Things will get better with each update for your respective heads and bodies.

[Chains Winterwolf]

I got a male body and while I like it, no one has ever answered me for support and I contacted linden labs and they told me to go fly a kite because when I buy something from a seller I enter into a contract with them and blah blah... Meaning Im screwed. 

I havent been able to get clothing to work with the transparencies and I cant put on any tattoos either.. I really like this body but if I cant do anything with it then what else is there? Ive searched and maybe Im missing something.. 

Who has good mesh bodies? 

[Kia Kiyori]

4 hours ago, Chains Winterwolf said:

I got a male body and while I like it, no one has ever answered me for support and I contacted linden labs and they told me to go fly a kite because when I buy something from a seller I enter into a contract with them and blah blah... Meaning Im screwed. 

I havent been able to get clothing to work with the transparencies and I cant put on any tattoos either.. I really like this body but if I cant do anything with it then what else is there? Ive searched and maybe Im missing something.. 

Who has good mesh bodies? 

Is there someone new at LL's helm promoting a 'couldn't-give-a-toss-so-bend-over-and-take-it-up-the-Khyber-Pass' attitude these days? 

It's always been my understanding that when people pay you money for a service (including a platform), it legally binds you to a duty of care.

I could be mistaken, but I never knew "too bad, so sad, keep flying that kite" to be an acceptable defense in any court of law, but if it's steaming your veggies quite that much, then it might be worth asking a barrister /lawyer just to get an official stance on the issue.

Aside from the neck issue (scarves, chunky necklaces, turtlenecks etc to hide it) there's really no need for customer service given that - quite frankly - everything does tend to work out of the box.

I apologize if this is a daft question, but did you add the deformers (upper, lower and feet) included in the pack before you put on the non-Legacy clothes?

They do work beautifully, but they don't necessarily work instantly - it can take several seconds before they wake up and realize they're 'on duty'.

Unable to answer your question about tattoos though, but have you tried asking in the Legacy Lovers group chat?

[steeljane42]

5 hours ago, AnyaJurelle said:

Is there someone new at LL's helm promoting a 'couldn't-give-a-toss-so-bend-over-and-take-it-up-the-Khyber-Pass' attitude these days? 

It's always been my understanding that when people pay you money for a service (including a platform), it legally binds you to a duty of care.

It's not new, it always been the case. Unless it's obvious scam (like advertising product on the MP as one thing, say a mesh head, and when you buy it you get an empty prim), then LL won't get involved. There's nothing in SL/LL TOS about having to provide any support for anything you sell.

 

10 hours ago, Chains Winterwolf said:

Who has good mesh bodies? 

As far as male ones go: Signature (Gianni and Geralt) and Belleza Jake. Slink is okay, but getting less and less support through years.

[Kia Kiyori]

2 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

It's not new, it always been the case. Unless it's obvious scam (like advertising product on the MP as one thing, say a mesh head, and when you buy it you get an empty prim), then LL won't get involved. There's nothing in SL/LL TOS about having to provide any support for anything you sell.

What's written in a TOS isn't worth the paper it's printed on if a court finds a business negligent in their duty of care - no matter how much said business would like to wash their hands of all responsibility.

[steeljane42]

46 minutes ago, AnyaJurelle said:

What's written in a TOS isn't worth the paper it's printed on if a court finds a business negligent in their duty of care - no matter how much said business would like to wash their hands of all responsibility.

Good luck trying to sue any creator or LL over the "broken" product then. I'm sure you can find quite a few (thousands) on the MP. Especially LL, since it's not them providing this product to you to begin with as they provide you only with "platform". And no, they can't make sure that all products available on their platform have "appropriate quality", which is way too wide term anyway (you'd have to prove that what you got is "broken" first), in that sense they are like ebay or amazon, just a platform to host products.

And considering that aside of big FP packs of animations/kits that can go for well over 100kL$, you are most likely paid less than a few dollars for something, I also highly doubt that legal expenses will ever be worth the result or time spent. Either way, all that legal stuff has little interest for me, but I'm pretty sure LL being in business for 16+ years and winning quite a few lawsuits, have their legal stuff well covered.

---

Now back to topic and body in question. Was about to edit my last post, but may as well put it here.

I had some extra free time for random things this weekend and since demoing is finally less of a pain compared to old awful store experience with "experiences" I decided to give it (female one) a better look than I did before on demo and in short encounters with it (on others) in-world.

It's not bad, pretty smooth, reacts to sliders nicely, especially if you don't go below certain values. Neck fit is rubbish with all heads and skins I have tried (yes, I went to get demo skins for the body from quite a few creators). Need for media to use the HUD is pretty stupid. I have all media disabled at all times and have yet to encounter anything that would actually need it (aside of music/media streams which is exactly why I have it off).

There are also gaps in mesh, already mentioned on the previous page. Except it was supposed to happen only about 1000m, but in fact it also does happen on the ground level as well. Not as bad as above 1k metres, but it doesn't happen on maitreya, belleza, slink, all of which are perfectly fine even above 3k metres.

I did read that "they are aware of the issue", but knowing their history and the fact that original TMP body had those gaps from day one until it was phased out by a new one... yeah. Not buying that "new management" thing either.

Here's a story I did read on the "site that should not be mentioned". I can't attest if all of it is true or not, as I'm not in SL long enough to see it all by myself, but I thought it was fun. I guess it also will be fun to come back to this post in a few years if SL is still around.

 

Quote

 

Gather round the fire as we tell the tale of Naughty. Get comfortable and warm your hands. Welcome welcome. In the early days the villagers of SecondLife praised Naughty. They were so popular the sim would fill and you’d have to wait to get in. Much like these events you young people insist on supporting today. One day Naughty had a going out of business sale and the villagers cried.

A short time later, Armidi appeared. It was a glorious sim of many designers and the names were inspired by real life brands. Armidi was a place to shop and gather together similar to our fire here. At the same time another brand appeared to attract the male villagers Abyss. As time passed the brands became less popular and closed. To great surprise the team emerged again with a store called The Body Co. It wasn’t as successful as the previous brands. Then the old brands resurfaced as The Warehouse. The villagers rejoiced at the collection of old items at discount prices. Then both closed.

There was a brief less documented time the team opened a puzzling shooing experiqnce called The Shops. It faded away. Again the team resurfaced as The Mesh Project or as you young people call it TMP. TMP was popular. Then the evil Maitreya came in and stole their thunder! In response the team closed up and disappeared. Then suddenly as they left they returned as Legacy. So… as you see. The Naughty team has existed since the great dawn of the virtual world of SecondLife. As an elder these are the brands we are confident that Naughty has developed. They may be involved with other brands as well unknown to our great and vast knowledge of the SecondLife shopping world.

In order- Naughty / Armidi / Abyss / The Body Co. / The Warehouse / The Shops / TMP / Legacy

 

Mesh crack I mentioned above.

Edited November 11, 2019 by steeljane42
typos

[Kia Kiyori]

17 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

Good luck trying to sue any creator or LL over the "broken" product then. I'm sure you can find quite a few (thousands) on the MP. Especially LL, since it's not them providing this product to you to begin with as they provide you only with "platform". And no, they can't make sure that all products available on their platform have "appropriate quality", which is way too wide term anyway (you'd have to prove that what you got is "broken" first), in that sense they are like ebay or amazon, just a platform to host products.

And considering that aside of big FP packs of animations/kits that can go for well over 100kL$, you are most likely paid less than a few dollars for something, I also highly doubt that legal expenses will ever be worth the result or time spent. Either way, all that legal stuff has little interest for me, but I'm pretty sure LL being in business for 16+ years and winning quite a few lawsuits, have their legal stuff well covered.

---

Now back to topic and body in question. Was about to edit my last post, but may as well put it here.

I had some extra free time for random things this weekend and since demoing is finally less of a pain compared to old awful store experience with "experiences" I decided to give it (female one) a better look than I did before on demo and in short encounters with it (on others) in-world.

It's not bad, pretty smooth, reacts to sliders nicely, especially if you don't go below certain values. Neck fit is rubbish with all heads and skins I have tried (yes, I went to get demo skins for the body for quite a few creators). Need for media to use the HUD is pretty stupid. I have all media disabled at all times and have yet to encounter anything that would actually need it (aside of music/media streams which I exactly why I have it off).

There are also gaps in mesh, already mentioned on the previous page. Except it was supposed to happen only about 1000m, but in fact it also does happen on the ground level as well. Not as bad as above 1k metres, but it doesn't happen on maitreya, belleza, slink, all of which are perfectly fine even above 3k metres.

I did read that "they are aware of the issue", but knowing their history and the fact that original TMP body had those gaps from day one until it was phased out by a new one... yeah. Not buying that "new management" thing either.

Here's a story I did read on the "site that should not be mentioned". I can't attest if all of it is true or not, as I'm not in SL long enough to see it all by myself, but I thought it was fun. I guess it'll be fun to come back to this post in a few years if SL is still around.

 

Mesh crack I mentioned above.

Nah, I'm just not in a lather over it - I'd merely suggested that the previous poster might want to look into it if they were losing sleep over the issue.

I've seen those 'cracks' before - no idea what causes them but yes, they do indeed appear whether you're at ground level or higher so if that's the official excuse being used, then they'll have to excuse me for not buying it - just like, "it's your windlight causing the neck issue".

The reason the body is so beautifully smooth is because the creator went stir crazy with polygons - they also went overboard with scripts - there's more scripts in that body than an entire collection of Shakespearean plays; the whole thing isn't even remotely 'lag friendly'. 

It's ok for a photo session, but that's about it, imo.

Not familiar with the forbidden site you mentioned, so can't comment on the story.

[Alyona Su]

1 hour ago, steeljane42 said:

Mesh crack I mentioned above.

 

That's nowhere near as bad as most neck seams between most heads and bodies when from different creators. If that micro-"crack" is a dealbreaker (on anything) then so be it.

23 minutes ago, AnyaJurelle said:

Nah, I'm just not in a lather over it - I'd merely suggested that the previous poster might want to look into it if they were losing sleep over the issue.

The issue the OP has is with the creator, not Linden Lab. LL does not get involved in resident-to-resident activities unless it breaks TOS. What you are suggesting is comparable to requiring that I should complain to the Mall owner if I have a problem with something at Nordstrom's or Macy's or another store there.

[Kia Kiyori]

6 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

That's nowhere near as bad as most neck seams between most heads and bodies when from different creators. If that micro-"crack" is a dealbreaker (on anything) then so be it.

The issue the OP has is with the creator, not Linden Lab. LL does not get involved in resident-to-resident activities unless it breaks TOS. What you are suggesting is comparable to requiring that I should complain to the Mall owner if I have a problem with something at Nordstrom's or Macy's or another store there.

And I merely suggested if he's that upset about it, he might want to ask a lawyer who is or isn't responsible for passing the buck.

I haven't a clue what a Nordstrom's is but it sounds painful...

[Sammy Huntsman]

13 hours ago, Chains Winterwolf said:

I got a male body and while I like it, no one has ever answered me for support and I contacted linden labs and they told me to go fly a kite because when I buy something from a seller I enter into a contract with them and blah blah... Meaning Im screwed. 

Why is it LL's responsibility to help you out with something that you bought from a 3rd party. They can do nothing, you bought the body from The Shops, so that is the shops responsibility. Not LL's responsibility.

[Kia Kiyori]

3 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

Why is it LL's responsibility to help you out with something that you bought from a 3rd party. They can do nothing, you bought the body from The Shops, so that is the shops responsibility. Not LL's responsibility.

I think he's just frustrated. Kind of understandable, if others' past experiences with TMP is anything to go by.

[Sammy Huntsman]

10 minutes ago, AnyaJurelle said:

I think he's just frustrated. Kind of understandable, if others' past experiences with TMP is anything to go by.

But they literally have one person from the TMP team, the rest of the people are brand new. But here is the thing, our past experiences are our fault. We bought into it, hoping that it would be something good, and in the end we got our hopes up. So really, we should be disappointed with our past selves.

[Kia Kiyori]

Just now, halebore Aeon said:

But they literally have one person from the TMP team, the rest of the people are brand new. But here is the thing, our past experiences are our fault. We bought into it, hoping that it would be something good, and in the end we got our hopes up. So really, we should be disappointed with our past selves.

I hear you, but please don't blame yourself for someone else's unprofessional business practices, ok?

[Cinos Field]

34 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

Why is it LL's responsibility to help you out with something that you bought from a 3rd party. They can do nothing, you bought the body from The Shops, so that is the shops responsibility. Not LL's responsibility.

You can make a very real argument that LL shouldn't allow outright broken products (literally in this case, with all those gaps and seams!) to be sold on their platform. It might even be their moral responsibility. The problem is just that it's not a legal one, and it'd be extremely time-consuming.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Cinos Field

[Sammy Huntsman]

18 minutes ago, AnyaJurelle said:

I hear you, but please don't blame yourself for someone else's unprofessional business practices, ok?

But I was the one who stupidly bought into it last time. And honestly, since buying the Legacy body. I have not really had any problems. Also those alpha seams you see, are more dependent on the height at which your avatar is at. I think if you are above 900 meters, it becomes apparent and certain windlights.

 

[Kia Kiyori]

25 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

But I was the one who stupidly bought into it last time. And honestly, since buying the Legacy body. I have not really had any problems. Also those alpha seams you see, are more dependent on the height at which your avatar is at. I think if you are above 900 meters, it becomes apparent and certain windlights.

 

Now listen here, missy...buying something in good faith is not being stupid, ok?

And no, I haven't had any problems with it, either - I only stopped wearing it because it has twice the complexity of Maitreya and far too many scripts.

[Sammy Huntsman]

2 minutes ago, AnyaJurelle said:

Now listen here, missy...buying something in good faith is not being stupid, ok?

And no, I haven't had any problems with it, either - I only stopped wearing it because it has twice the complexity of Maitreya and far too many scripts.

All bodies are not really well optimized though, you just gotta find the one you really like. Lol. I actually switch back and forth between Maitreya and Legacy, depending on my mood