LL advertising private businesses in their blog?

[Phil Deakins]

6 minutes ago, Jules Catlyn said:

It doesn't show an uneven playing field. There are several brands featured in her blogpost not just 2. I am strongly against paid advertising because that would make the playing field uneven because brands that don't have the funds would be at a disadvantage even more then. With these blogposts EVERY brand has the chance to be featured.

I'm not a shopper, so there's a lot I don't know. But Uber and Blueberry are the ONLY places mentioned where she got the stuff. Just the 2 of them and those are what I mentioned. I even asked if they are businesses. I assumed that other data is merely models of stuff - like the names given to hair styles.

Of course it's an uneven playing field if such favouritism/highlighting/promotion isn't available to all businesses. That goes without saying.

[Jules Catlyn]

Just now, Phil Deakins said:

You are mistaken. There are only 2 stores mentioned - the two I posted. There are no more in the blog.

The only other thing mentioned is the sim where the pic was taken.

I see the following brands:Truth (hair), Neve(top), Blueberry (jacket), Neve)pant) and GOS(shoes). Yes they were bought at an event but that is more than 2 brands. That is how all regular stylecards work. You quote the brand and items and where to get them. So i still don't see the fuss.

[Phil Deakins]

9 minutes ago, lucagrabacr said:

I think it's rash to call it favoritism from a single blog post, it might just be Xiola happen to have and like those items she's wearing from those stores and decided to make the blog post.

There would be nothing wrong with that if she'd done in her own blog. But she did it in the official LL blog, and that puts a different light on it.

[Phil Deakins]

10 minutes ago, Akasha Sternberg said:

what criteria do you have to wear what you wear that day... what criteria do I have to wear what I wear... like, wear, photos, blog - posting a LOTD post is quite popular and she seems to have wanted to participate in that trend, showing the Lindens are no dusty relicts of the past running around like it´s the first day of SL ... there doesn´t have to be more to it really... Digging for any corruption and uhhh weird deals.... is just unnecessary

it doesn´t even have to be any campaign or test either.... oh my....why are we treating the Lindens like they´re some glasshouse celebrity that never go to use the bathroom for a bigger meeting if you know what I mean. (And yeah Celebreties have bowel movements too...and they stink just like yours and mine)

We could choose to not be the mob with burning forks and actually aknowledge their interaction and them doing what so many of us do for once.... XD

What you say absolutely correct. BUT it's not what Xiola did. What she did, she did in the offical Linden Lab blog. That makes it very different.

[Akasha Sternberg]

there are FOUR brands....

Uber is NOT a brand... Uber is a monthly Event where appearantly neve and [Gos] have booths, along with Truth and the wrap around jacket by Blueberry is their latest release

The 10 memberships were a promo event just recently for the Blueberry VIPs group - nothing unusual either...

 

again and again and a-effin-gain... Xiola didn´t do anything unusual and well as I said  they might as well just include a trend in their official blog showing they know whats going on.... 

it IS what she did....why she put it on there is none of my, our and your business.... if it was THAT horrible another Linden with author rights would of removed it by now...damn they´re not stupid

 

Edited September 1, 2018 by Akasha Sternberg

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

And the co-existing blog about 10 free premium memberships from Blueberry

All seems a little too tight to me.

If they tied it all in to the Uber fashion show, instead of seeming to favor certain brands, would that seem less shady?

[Jules Catlyn]

3 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I'm not a shopper, so there's a lot I don't know. But Uber and Blueberry are the ONLY places mentioned where she got the stuff. Just the 2 of them and those are what I mentioned. I even asked if they are businesses. I assumed that other data is merely models of stuff - like the names given to hair styles.

Of course it's an uneven playing field if such favouritism/highlighting/promotion isn't available to all businesses. That goes without saying.

We can't decide yet whether it is an even playing field and making it paid won't change that one bit because the ones with the deepest pockets will be able to pay the most for advertising. If things like this blogpost will be a regularly occurring thing it will be an even playing field because a Linden buys a product they like from any creator and then write about it. No matter how much they paid for advertising. 

[Phil Deakins]

5 minutes ago, Jules Catlyn said:

I see the following brands:Truth (hair), Neve(top), Blueberry (jacket), Neve)pant) and GOS(shoes). Yes they were bought at an event but that is more than 2 brands. That is how all regular stylecards work. You quote the brand and items and where to get them. So i still don't see the fuss.

As I said, I'm not a shopper, so there's a lot I don't know. And, in the first post I did ask if they were businesses.

So Xiola was promoting a number of products. It just makes it worse, really. I completely understand, and agree with, Lindens posting what they want on their own blogs, other people's blogs, this forum, etc., but when it's posted on the official Linden lab blog, it looks like an official Linden Lab endorement. And that's wrong, imo.

[Blush Bravin]

6 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

And the co-existing blog about 10 free premium memberships from Blueberry

All seems a little too tight to me.

You're taking a little bit of knowledge and making a giant leap of assumption here. Until there is clarity made as to how this happened (and I'm not saying there even should be) why assume the worst?

3 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I'm not a shopper, so there's a lot I don't know. But Uber and Blueberry are the ONLY places mentioned where she got the stuff. Just the 2 of them and those are what I mentioned. I even asked if they are businesses. I assumed that other data is merely models of stuff - like the names given to hair styles.

Of course it's an uneven playing field if such favouritism/highlighting/promotion isn't available to all businesses. That goes without saying.

You know so little about the shopping culture here in SL that you're seeing a lot of wrong in something that is rather benign. Uber is basically a gathering place for businesses to showcase their wares. So many creators were mentioned. I think it's great to show that Lindens are involved in SL. And doing it officially is a great advertisement for Second Life period. It's promoting shopping in SL regardless of it showcasing a handful of creators. Personally I think it's a great idea and hope they continue doing it.

 

[Phil Deakins]

6 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

You know so little about the shopping culture here in SL that you're seeing a lot of wrong in something that is rather benign. Uber is basically a gathering place for businesses to showcase their wares. So many creators were mentioned. I think it's great to show that Lindens are involved in SL. And doing it officially is a great advertisement for Second Life period. It's promoting shopping in SL regardless of it showcasing a handful of creators. Personally I think it's a great idea and hope they continue doing it.

There are a number of ways that Linden can show that they're involved in SL. But I think it's wrong for them to give appartent endorsements to specific stores in the official Linden Lab Blog. If Xiola had made the same post here in the forum, then I wouldn't have any issue with it. She uses the forum, so it would be easy to do. Heck she has  Pic Of The Day thread, doesn't she?  It's the fact that it's in the Offical Linden Lab Blog that makes it appear that Linden Lab endorses the contents.

Edited September 1, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Jules Catlyn]

2 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

As I said, I'm not a shopper, so there's a lot I don't know. And, in the first post I did ask if they were businesses.

So Xiola was promoting a number of products. It just makes it worse, really. I completely understand, and agree with, Lindens posting what they want on their own blogs, other people's blogs, this forum, etc., but when it's posted on the official Linden lab blog, it looks like an official Linden Lab endorement. And that's wrong, imo.

If by endorsement you mean that they make fellow users/creators of Second Life proud that they got mentioned on the official blog, i think that's awesome and EXACTLY the reason why it should be done on the official blog. It shows that Linden Lab care about what people are doing inworld. So i hope this is not a one time thing and we can look forward to many more posts like this. 

[Blush Bravin]

Just now, Phil Deakins said:

There are a number of ways that Linden can show that they're involved in SL. But I think it's wrong for them to give appartent endorsements to specific stores in the official Linden Lab Blog. If Xiola had made the same post here in the forum, then I wouldn't have any issue with it. She uses the forum, so it would be easy to do. Heck she has  Pic Of The Day thread, doesn't she?  It's the fact that it's in the Offical Linden Lab Blog that makes it appear that Linden Lab endorses the contents.

Yes, I understand your objections, I just totally disagree with you on that matter.

[Akasha Sternberg]

I gave up and reported the post and blocked the guy... he just doesn´t want to listen and I´ve noticed that behaviour on him in several other posts... it´s just not worth it

[Blush Bravin]

3 minutes ago, Akasha Sternberg said:

I gave up and reported the post and blocked the guy... he just doesn´t want to listen and I´ve noticed that behaviour on him in several other posts... it´s just not worth it

I like Phil and enjoy his posts. He has every right to voice his disapproval. But we too have the right to say, "Good job, Xiola! Keep them coming."

Edited September 1, 2018 by Blush Bravin

[Akasha Sternberg]

Just now, Blush Bravin said:

I like Phil and enjoy his posts. He has every right to voice his disapproval. But we too have the right to voice our approval. 

of course he does but usually there´s no whole thread needed for that and it´s a matter of "hey guys I noticed.... now I don´t know much bout shopping so is this shady?" - "nah it´s not uncommon, they just seem to pay attention " - "ah ok.. not a fan of it but ok" and not 3 pages of omg corruption, uncool, not on official blogs no matter how many times they´re told it´s not as horrible as they think it to be... it could of been sorted in 3-4-5 posts 
 

[Phil Deakins]

I'm done with this now. It's taking far too much of my time today. I'll finish by saying that, imo, it's wrong that the official LL blog is used to promote specific products and stores, when the same facility is not available to all. That's all I started the thread to say. If Xiola's blog post wasn't for the purpose of promotions, then I cannot come up with any reason to post it at all - except perhaps as a 'look at me' thing, and we have forums for that.

The fact that Blueberry and premium accounts came into it, either coincidentally or by design, came later.

[Garnet Psaltery]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Agreed, only limited users read the blogs, even if on viewer home screen prior to login.

I seldom click on Pic of the Day as they all look the same anyway.

[Skell Dagger]

What everyone (OK, mostly Phil ) seems to be ignoring in all of this kerfluffle is that it's not just Xiola's LotD post that features style credits. Take this one that was prior to her image, and look for the 'style credits can be found here' link.

Getting the idea? The Look of the Day posts that feature on the official blog feature direct links to bloggers' posts, where they - in turn - link to these stores and events. The fact that one of the very few Lindens who actually has an interest in current fashion does the same thing... why the hell does it matter? What matters is that one of the biggest 'industries' in Second Life is being used to draw in new users.

Adam & Eve and Nylon Pinkney made early default starter avatars. People fussed about favouritism back then. Strawberry Singh and Winter Jefferson (both well-known bloggers) also feature heavily in Linden advertising, especially so on the Marketplace banners - and again there's fuss about favouritism.

Do we really want to go back to the days when less fashion-savvy Lindens did all the advertising, and we had monstrosities like the one below 'showcasing' what was possible in Second Life?

Edited September 1, 2018 by Skell Dagger

[Phil Deakins]

They are different, Skell. As you pointed out, they aren't included in the Pic Of The Day posts. They are on private blogs.

[Skell Dagger]

3 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

They are different, Skell. As you pointed out, they aren't included in the Pic Of The Day posts. They are on private blogs.

...which are being directly linked-to by the Lab. Do you also think that bloggers themselves are being officially promoted when LL links to them on those posts?

[Phil Deakins]

18 minutes ago, Akasha Sternberg said:

I gave up and reported the post and blocked the guy... he just doesn´t want to listen and I´ve noticed that behaviour on him in several other posts... it´s just not worth it

You mean, "he just doesn't want to listen and agree with me" ?   From my viewpoint, it's the other way round as far as you are concerned

You won't read this because you've blocked me but I just thought I'd point out that not everyone has identical opinions and, as Blush said, everyone is entitled to voice theirs. But, frankly, it's unbelievable that you don't agree with me ?

 

[Phil Deakins]

2 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said:

...which are being directly linked-to by the Lab. Do you also think that bloggers themselves are being officially promoted when LL links to them on those posts?

It's not that, Skell. It's that what is promoted on private blogs does not give the appearance of being official Linden Lab endorsements. Imo, Xiola's offical blog post does give that appearance. If I were in the clothing market, I'd feel like being up in arfms about the favouritism.

[Skell Dagger]

13 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

If I were in the clothing market, I'd feel like being up in arfms about the favouritism.

I am in the clothing market. You, however, have stated that you're not a shopper and don't know about the fashion industry in Second Life.

A very large number of bloggers are sponsored by stores. We're given new releases free of charge, in return for featuring those items on our blogs. We have to abide by certain rules in order to continue being sponsored: blog X number or items per month, always link to the store/event, etc. This means we are directly promoting those stores, so - if LL links to our blogs on an official post - they are promoting those stores.

See? You're not the only one who can reach a hell of a long way to make a point.

The day that LL makes an official 'promotion' post that encroaches onto your area of expertise (which, I believe, is still bots, as it used to be) I will not be one to start an indignant thread about something I know sod-all about.

I'm perfectly aware that you enjoy a good tennis rally of back-and-forth disagreement, so you'll continue to drag this one out with constant denial and rebuttal, despite saying the following:

32 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I'm done with this now. It's taking far too much of my time today. I'll finish by saying

So I'm done with you, too. I'm withdrawing my participation with you in your favourite method of entertainment.

Edited September 1, 2018 by Skell Dagger

[Phil Deakins]

Just now, Skell Dagger said:

I am in the clothing market. You, however, have stated that you're not a shopper and don't know about the fashion industry in Second Life.

It's nothing to do with the clothing market. The only thing I didn't know was whether or not Uber and the other were businesses.

A very large number of bloggers are sponsored by stores. We're given new releases free of charge, in return for featuring those items on our blogs. We have to abide by certain rules in order to continue being sponsored: blog X number or items per month, always link to the store/event, etc. This means we are directly promoting those stores, so - if LL links to our blogs on an official post - they are promoting those stores.

It's not my concern, or the concern of this thread, what you with your blogs and/or who sponsors them.

See? You're not the only one who can reach a hell of a long way to make a point.

I didn't have reach a long way down to make a point. It was right there staring me in the face.

The day that LL makes an official 'promotion' post that encroaches onto your area of expertise (which, I believe, is still bots, as it used to be) I will not be one to start an indignant thread about something I know sod-all about.

It's about business, and concerns anyone who is in business. And I know a lot about business. That qualifies me. My business was furniture, as you ought to know. and not bots.

I'm perfectly aware that you enjoy a good tennis rally of back-and-forth disagreement, so you'll continue to drag this one out with constant denial and rebuttal

There have been no denials here. There have been different opinions of whether the blog post was right or wrong, but no denial that it happened. There have been rebuttals though, whether right or wrong. I.e. there have been those whose opinion have been that the blog post was good. And there have been those whose opinions have been that that the blog post was bad. The majority, though not massive, have been in favour of the blog post, but a majority is never an automatic indication of being right.

I can't be any fairer than that, can I? There are opposing opinions, and that's the way it is. I suspect that we will all survive

[Claireschen Hesten]

By using the official blog it does look like LL is paying unfair favouritism towards certain brands and events like they did with Ozimals way back. I'm sure this was not the intended case and that Xiola wanted to show with the outfit credits that Linden's are just like us and like to shop at stores and monthly events like uber. I'm sure if it was marked as a personal blog or posted in one of the look at me threads it wouldn't be seen so negatively.