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Commerce Team: It's LAND IMPACT now, not prims!


Pamela Galli
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There are still people in SL who do not realize that we no longer measure land impact by prims, and have not since mesh was introduced. Evidently the commerce team is among them, since listings still call for and report "prim count" not "land impact".

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Apparently they're living in a prim past that allowed more triangles per sim than land impact. This deep and immensly complex issue should probably be submitted to Jira in triplicate ASAP. It's also why allowing beer on the job is not such a great idea.

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

I agree with this.  I also think creators should be required to report the LI and size of the item used to calculate it.  I've bought more than on thing that said it had a low LI but it was so small you had to resize it to use it and the LI soared so high it was usless to me.

 

Yes, land impact and prims are not the same thing. Something can be one land impact and many prims, or high land impact and one Prim.

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Pamela Galli wrote:

There are still people in SL who do not realize that we no longer measure land impact by prims, and have not since mesh was introduced. Evidently the commerce team is among them, since listings still call for and report "prim count" not "land impact".

It should also be mandatory that the render weights for all wearables be listed also.

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Well yes but I know better than to request anything more than changing the word prim to Land Impact. I am hoping that this at least does not require coding skills and/or time beyond what the devs possess, even if other things evidently do.

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Well yes but I know better than to request anything more than changing the word prim to Land Impact. I am hoping that this at least does not require coding skills and/or time beyond what the devs possess, even if other things evidently do.

I know..... but we can dream.

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"It should also be mandatory that the render weights for all wearables be listed also."

Agreed. And any one daring to transgress some arbitrary limit by wearing stuff  should be sent t'cornfield mark 3 and laughed at. I start the bidding at lets see : 1 and an undefined fraction

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Faye Feldragonne wrote:

Where can we learn about this? I thought LI was the same. (Feeling newbie)

It's a result of Mesh and the way it taxes the Client (Viewer). Simple prim objects can be roughly calculated as 1 to 1 (prim to land impact). But it's not always exact, and when you toss in Mesh (attachments, clothing, buildings, etc.) then things get wonky.

There is a tutorial on calculating Land Impact. It was last updated in 2013, so really the Commerce Dev Team has only had about two years to fix the line that reads "Prims" so that it reads "Land Impact" .. but they are working on it .. real soon now.

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Calculating-land-impact/ta-p/974163

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Agrees with Prokofy. prims or land impact its all the same. If you can have 3000 prims to play with on your land and you set a mesh piece that has an LI of 1000 then you can only get 2000 more prims or 2000 more LI of mesh  on your land. Same for prims set out a 1000 prim build and you only have 2000 left to play with. I think everyone knows how to read Li vs Prim count. Just sayin

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Faye Feldragonne wrote:

Where can we learn about this? I thought LI was the same. (Feeling newbie)

The viewers report the number of individual parts in an object as number of prims, and the number actually deducted from your land impact total as land impact. it does not distinguish between sculpts, regular prims, and mesh -- an indivual part is counted as a prim. *

 

 

If you link two regular cube prims then change the physics type to convex hull, they are still two prims but have land impact of one. For example, when i converted my houses to convex hull, they kept the same prim count, but their land impact was reduced by about 40 percent. Conversely, you can have a mesh made of a single object/prim with very high Land Impact. **

 

Some merchants have been known to upload some high land impact object made of a single mesh and report its prim count on the marketplace as one. It is in fact one prim/part but what most really want to know is not how many individual parts it has but what its land impact is. 

*LL further confuses matters by giving the total land impact reported in About Land as number of prims/parts.

** I often must experiment with how many parts/prims to break something into on upload in order to get the lowest LI. 

 

ETA  It is also confusing to many because the word prim is used as a unit of measurement  as well as a name for one type of building unit. 

 

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THIS ^^^ is exactly why the "Prim" count field must be changed to Land Impact. Unscrupulous types could simply say "Well, it IS only one prim" and be technically correct. But as you point out, that's not the number that matter to buyers.

After two years, I really am down to believing there are MUCH larger issues than just changing the display text on a web page. (FWIW: Even with Software QA injecting their nose in the process, it should take no more than two business days to accomplish the change.) Why they can't tack it on to some of the other MASSIVE changes they've made is .. unfathomable.

(Tin Foil Hat Time)

Of course it could be because there are Lindens that have tons of listings in "Prim" count metrics that they can't be bothered to change. So keep the web page broken rather than make an employee do any actual work to maintain their income stream.

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Gunner Grun wrote:

Agrees with Prokofy. prims or land impact its all the same. If you can have 3000 prims to play with on your land and you set a mesh piece that has an LI of 1000 then you can only get 2000 more prims or 2000 more LI of mesh  on your land. Same for prims set out a 1000 prim build and you only have 2000 left to play with. I think everyone knows how to read Li vs Prim count. Just sayin

As a buyer you would not be very happy when the listing on the marketplace says 20 prims. One mesh part is counted as 1 prim by SL, however this single prim can have a much higher land impact. 

When a merchant sells you a linkset of 20 prims, he is not lying when he lists his item as 20 prims. There is no obligation for the merchant to inform you that each of those 20 prims has a land impact of 50. So there is no way for you to know that the actual object has a land impact of 1000, unless the merchant voluntary informs you about it.

A system where is asked for land impact in stead of prim count, would save you the unpleasant surprise of buying something with a much higer land impact then the prim count field informs you about.

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Here's the jira that I created back in January 2012:

Marketplace:Add Land Impact as a Searchable Field

Now that Land Impact has been implemented as "Second Life's mechanism for calculating the computational weight of an object against land usage limits." it has become a necessary filter for the Marketplace Search.

Personally I would be fine with a simple update that would see the current label "Prim Count" changed to "Land Impact" but I'm not opposed to the creation of a new "Land Impact" searchable field. The important thing is that Land Impact is included in a timely fashion, however it is done.

It may also be prudent to include a corresponding "See Description" checkbox similar to that which is used for Permissions.

 

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Pamela Galli wrote:

That's three and a half years old. :mansad:

I would "watch" it but the site seems to be down atm.

It seems to be up again .. and I just "Voted" and "Watched". Created on January 23, 2012? *sigh*

CTL: Honestly .. please .. this really is a pencil-whip problem. It should also be a no-brainer; this change MUST be completed as a consequence of Mesh, Land Impact, Prim Equivalence and all the other knock-on effects of changes that happened YEARS AGO!

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I don't have much more to say about this than already has been said, but why not bump the post. lol

 

I also agree that the SL listings are lacking massively in information for the consumers. There should be fields for every relevant data set that every 3D site give information on. Besides SL, you will never see a marketplace selling 3D content that doesn't list the polygon count, as well as other stuff. The only place this is not standard, is SL. Don't ask me why.

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Prokofy Neva wrote:

There will always be prims. Always.

Not everyone builds with/owns/can even see mesh.

Yes but what Pamela had in mind is the "prim count" in the Marketplace listing and that's different. You can buy an item with a "prim count" of say 50 on MP and when you rez it, it turns out to steal 200 of your prim quota. That's highly misleading marketing and SL not only allows it, they actually encourages it.

I can understand why LL doesn't do anything about it though. They would have to change no less than four words on two different web pages to fix it and that might be a bit too much work.

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