Zanara Zenovka

Myrylyn wrote: Whew, that's reassuring. If I had to point to any one thing slowing down my sales, it's that I took a break from producing new products. Perhaps not appearing on the "new" list was what killed my profits. Well not only that, but each new release should unleash a chain of marketing events. You should be announcing to several inworld groups that cover your market, starting your own subscriber mail list of people who wish to be kept informed up new products, sending samples to bloggers for review, listing on forums/blogs that publicise new content, coming up with promotional events that suit your market, etc etc. Word of mouth can take it from there, but it has to start somewhere. Btw if you're looking for marketing ideas, check out the reading room in my inworld shop - i've got a collection of posters there with links to online marketing articles with info that can be adapted to SL.

Yes - I'd love to see some formal inclusion of a call for user impact statements in the production process *before* things reach this point. Addit (went afk mid reply and missed your response, D) But yes - LL need to formally recognise that they can't actually manage to keep up with the evolution of their tools in the users' hands, and need a way to ask "what effects could this have?" at an early stage. Throughout this I keep thinking of De Bono's Six Hats technique for decision making and how useful it would be here. http://www.debonothinkingsystems.com/tools/6hats.htm SL users do an awesome job as "Black Hats", but our input is currently seen as being oppositional after the fact, rather than an essential part of the creative/problem solving process.

Thanks to everyone who's posted useful info. Oz has added some (somewhat reassuring) feedback today which has me at least thinking we can breathe a bit easier for a while: ---------- Oz Linden added a comment - 27/Feb/12 12:04 PM Everyone.... I don't know if this will help or not, but I'm going to give it a try and see.... We hear what you've all said, we understand the issues, and we're going to discuss what we can and should do about them. Nothing is final. We appreciate that Phoenix is moving appropriately to remove the privacy violation from their next release, and hope that they'll do that soon, but we understand that these things take time. In order to help us to have a better understanding, I appeal to the many of you who are posting messages that essentially say "I agree - this will be bad for me too" as opposed to describing a specific use case not already described here (and thank you to the many posts that have done a good job describing use cases): please stop with these "me too" posts - they just make it harder to read the full stream (and yes, I at least am reading all of every comment). We know that for every use case there are many users... we don't need each of them to post something. -----

Sales do fluctuate, due to many factors. I notice a slight upswing at the start/end of the month which is when (I guess) some people (?US users) get their monthly (RL) salary. There's also a bit of a traditional slump in northern hemisphere summer. But apart from that, the greatest effects I see are from my inworld marketing efforts and releases of new products.

LOL that's great. Can you do that for every interesting thread now please?

I'm not quite sure what you just said, but I know there's a Dilbert comic in there somewhere... Edit There we go - fixed http://pacm.parnes.net/images/Dilbert110320ReliabilityStatistics.gif

Yeah, I don't think many people realise how much of an impact this will have, as to most people, the only indication of the use of AGENT_ONLINE is in devices that display "xx is online/offline", but it's used in internal scripting operations of a variety of things - gift vendors, bot systems, staff boards, staff time clocks, ad boards, tip jars, gift boxes, delivery gadgets, RP systems... would be interesting to turn it off for a day just to see the effects. Rian's comment that he has sold over 1000 devices using this got me thinking. I'd have at least 2000 out there, and that's not counting the ones that only check their owner's status. Multiplied by how many pro scripters? Imagine Conover's total - his items have over 100 *reviews* each on MP - one has >800 reviews. What about Mystitool? It's gotta be used in there somewhere - 3700+ reviews. Then start thinking about vendor systems, and then, and then...the scope of impact for this is massive. Yes, Darrius - the implied tie-in with Delivered items is scary for a few other reasons too, (1) that the separate changes seem to be directed by different departments who haven't adequately compared notes (and have a dietary dogfood deficiency as Ms Romano has noted), and (2) that for DI to help with capped delivery failure, you'd need to either remove the capping limit or auto-accept all deliveries from scripted items, which opens another whole container of platyhelminthes* so I'm not even convinced that this will happen at all, unless (yet another) throttle is added to ensure that someone doesn't log in to 1000 items of junk (in the same folder that houses returned items - ooh yeah). Marigold Devin wrote: Oz Linden added a new comment to the JIRA today, which looks hopeful, but would be better if more merchants/employers/etc added their voice too. Oz Linden commented on SVC-4823: -------------------------------- "The feedback here is very useful. Thank you to those who are providing descriptions of use cases that don't unduly violate the privacy of the subject of this LSL method. We will discuss this further and provide updates, and will try to do so with enough time for existing usages to be adapted if needed. " Yes, thanks for linking this, Marigold. Atm it's useful to contribute whatever examples we have to demonstrate the complexities of how this is currently used and the systems and business and social practices that depend on it, since Oz does hint at some chance of reassessment. (straws....clutching....tighter...) GhostRider: your example is a good one that I haven't seen described previously - would be great to add to the jira if you haven't already. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4823 (and sadly the numbers there now actually represent the people *against* the original jira, although some are avoiding watching for that reason) but it's where all the communication is still happening.) *Yes i know you could argue about specific classifications, but platyhelminthes is just feels so good to say. ;p

Posting this because it affects quite a few scripts commonly used by merchants, and there's justifiably a good deal of concern circulating already. Ostensibly because of issues surrounding privacy, and mostly to do with third-party viewers that show true online status, regardless of privacy settings, Linden Lab are disabling the function that checks an avatar's online status (llRequestAgentData(AGENT_ONLINE)), unless you are the owner or creator of the script or object that's doing the checking. This will affect a variety things such as staff boards, ad boards, some mail, vendor and product updater systems, bot controllers, RP systems, communication devices, as well as the obvious applications such as online status indicator gadgets, It is hoped that the existing function will not be removed until LL can ensure that the new Received Items folder can accept inventory offers, even when you're offline and IMs are capped. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/ReceivedItemsBetaTesting There is the (currently slight) possibility of a new event-driven function being added that could replace it functionally. Nothing will be changing for at least 2 weeks, and changes will be made to RC servers before the main grid. Hopefully it can be delayed further while they fix Received Items. While supposedly designed to inhibit stalkers/griefers, it act actually means that • Any script or object you own or created can show your online status. • If you've ever made a full perms script, someone could edit it to show your online status. • If anyone has an object you made, with modify perms, they can add a script to its contents to see your online status. • Anyone can still see your online status by joining a group of which you are a member. • But you cannot use a device to check the online status of anyone else, unless they created the script or the object it's in. All currently available official details can be heard here: http://lecs.opensource.secondlife.com/tpvd/meeting/2012-02-24.mp3 The relevant part is between 5 and 10 minutes in. Below are my transcripts of pertinent points from the meeting audio. "The current plan is that it's going to be changed so that the LSL function will only return true presence data if the script or the object is owned by or created by the subject of the request." "For performance reasons, there is no good way to make that LSL interface actually look at the permissions that people have set, so this is how we're working around that." (ie breaking it for everyone) When questioned about mailers and vendors that check online status to ensure items are not lost to capped messages: "It is believed [...] that the received items and direct delivery changes will just fix those problems anyway." When told that deliveries when capped are still lost, even with the new received items: "Well if someone wants to actually do some testing with me about that, I will be glad to participate in that. But the intent is that that be fixed, if that's not fixed then, we'll deal with that as a bug. It is very emphatically our intent, that those delivery problems get fixed, and there is serious effort being expended on that in that regard. So I think that that other relatively recent usage of that agent presence data is not something that we really need to worry too much about, at least not for very long." (!) When asked about product update servers that check online status, that would now have to send all their updates at once and risk being throttled, another dev (?who) said "they already have to update their systems anyway, for the llGiveInventory throttle; they're already broken now, so there's not much more breakage going on." (!!) One shining light in tunnel: "There has been discussion of whether or not we should provide a different LSL mechanism, that could respect permissions, [and would] instead deliver an LSL event that you've asked for, rather than polling the permissions interface, [..] but it's up in the air right now." Re timing: "It will go through the normal release process, so it will get broken on one or more release channels first, and then eventually it will roll out to the rest of the grid." (He couldn't name a date, but said that it would be not less than two weeks.) https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4823

Rene Erlanger wrote: 2.k : You must not provide any feature that alters the shared experience of the virtual world in any way not provided by or accessible to users of the latest released Linden Lab viewer. Huh? Isn't that the whole point of using a TPV?

Sieben Ochs wrote: This product, its ideas, its means of deployability, are not for the beginner or the "what do I do with this" type. This would also imply that APACHE (or any other system like it) exist in the same method, which they do not. Use of this as with any server will require more advanced knowledge, of what a server is and how to use it. If one lacks this knowledge then the server might not be for them. Simply put. A good test to see if managing a server is for you. Simple and easy to do. Is read up on running a server and how to fully manage it. If you can read through it all, and fully understand its designation and effictivity to you. Then yes. Will my offering be as complex/complete as APACHE? No. And in a merger between PHP and lsl, never will be. Will it try to do something few systems in SL currently do? Yes. Will it be a lot of work? Yes. Do I have time to truly sit and dumb it down to pins and needles for the basic user? No. So this requires some knowledge before use. LOL Dude... Sassy's business already runs several PHP/SQL server + LSL systems, so you're way off the mark there. So you want to make a modular server-LSL system, with modular interface that can be adapted for a variety of purposes, great. (See, one sentence, not that hard.) If you want feedback, you need to communicate the idea to end users. If you want anyone to ever use it, the same applies. Anything designed without consideration and empathy for end-users is doomed to failure. If you just want to have a stream of consciousness ramble about development ideas, I suggest the forums are not the best place. If you're just trying to pre-sell your product, it's also not the right place. If that were the case, every other scripter could come and 'discuss their development plans' as a thinly veiled form of advertising. At the moment it sounds like you're trying to sell the idea of pre-fab houses that will require a licensed builder to erect. And should probably ask yourself what application there is for that. The idea in itself is not a bad one, but how can you make it worthwhile for anyone to use your system, rather than just create their own, especially if the skill set required is the same?

Darrius Gothly wrote:. It's on the Roadmap and NO ONE varies from that. Ever! And what happens when freeways are designed by engineers who never drive?

Reserving full judgement til I've had time to test, but initial impressions: Marketplace purchased items.Yes Inventory from scripted objects.Could be useful - would help people find things they've been sent - but will they still have to accept the delivery first? Currently when multiple items are sent in V3, any acceptance popups after the first are minimised - this is a problem because ppl are missing deliveries. Anything new to your inventory that you Take or Take Copy.Please, no. This could be a pain for building. Objects going to objects folder is fine as is. What happens when you drag a texture/script out of a rezzed object of your own? Can you drag it to a chosen folder? or will it be forced elsewhere? Anything you rezzed in someone else's parcel and they have Returned.No. Returned items still needs to be a category of its own. It's important to know the difference (and I shouldn't have to explain why). Inventory offers from other users.This could be useful in some circumstances. Eg i get a ton of info sent to me that I just like to keep long enough to read/act upon. So this could end up being a useful folder to easily clean out once a week. Summary - could have some uses for items sent to us by other people/scripts but NOT our own objects being taken to inventory or returned. Now the big questions 1. Will this change the way any of these items are received - will offers be auto-accepted? Will there still be popup notifications? Will DD deliveries be announced on arrival? 2. Why no earlier community consultation? 3. Why was this announced by a TPV dev in another forum over a week ago? http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/general-sl-discussion/69693-online-status-jira-lab-agreed-5.html#post1495637

VonGklugelstein Alter wrote: If the creators of these can have a monopoly on the food supply for these nasty critters, LL should open a exploit so that other scripters can make a bullet to kill them or poison to feed to the hungry ones to put them out of their misery. I have quite a few parcels that are next to fields of dying or nearly dead Alpo .. but instead of disappearing they just lay there .. how about allowing the ability for vultures to come and eat the damn things? LOL. Yes I found myself pondering how to design an SL myxomatosis in the bunny days...

Mauve Binder wrote: I use firefox, switched from IE months ago because of problems. is there a different (more stable) browser out there? Like I said, the section of (choose up to 8 related products) uploads in seconds.... but its the main product photo that isn't uploading... you sure its browser? Choosing related products isn't uploading - it's just picking existing database records.

Ziggy21 Slade wrote: The image size you are using is not the optimum so I think I would try one at the reccomended size(700 x 525). I don't think that should affect things like they are but just a thought. Yes, i've noticed that uploads at 512x512 go quickly, but anything over700 takes longer while it's resized. Pro tip: If you're quick with the button you can select a 2nd pic to upload while it's doing the first.

Poenald Palen wrote: But, yeah...it is not exactly a ponsi scheme ... No, it's a Ponzi scheme that you have to keep feeding money into to recoup your initial investment, with an added sim griefing component. Brilliant, really...

Yes, more incremental increases would be nice, and the hit for extra purchases by full sim owners is a bit silly - not sure what the thinking was there. Jennifer Boyle wrote: As I said above, you can rent any amount of tier you need for people who are in the business of renting it out. If you want contact info for them, send me a PM here or an IM in world. Problem is, renting for your primary business location is fraught with risk, no matter how "reliable" the landlord is.

emmettcullen93 wrote: is it possible for me to start a store inworlld and sell the items in my inventory? or must i create items? I am also looking for a business partner in this as well. If you just want to sell off unwanted stuff from your inventory there are yard sales. If you want to start a business, well yes you need to create something. If you're just thinking starting a business selling freebies etc from other creators...while it's not generally against TOS to sell off freebies, it is lame and pointless and just annoys people when they find out they paid for a freebie. Unless you have something original to contribute, don't bother.

Josh Susanto wrote: Feel the wrath of Malefactor Linden! Erm... no cigar. If you read Lasher's second post on this, http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Merchants/OOPS-WHERE-HAS-MY-STORE-GONE/td-p/1391657, you'll see the problem was fixed by cleaning up the dead boxes on his xStreet page, as I sugggested in the first place.

Josh Susanto wrote: >Maybe you can tie the two together for me..........I'm seriously intriqued on how copybotting and forum moderating are connected. They are related because, in terms of what LL actually does, they seem to have different sets of rules for different users. "If it floats it must be a witch!" Goes off to burn ducks...

It happens - put in a ticket under marketplace with the details - https://support.secondlife.com/create-case/

Lol it's nothing to do with rerezzing or touching scripts or anything. Pulling scripts out is only if you need up update your box version, and of course you're already using 3.0.11 so that wouldn't be necessary. The method I described is just to unlist the boxes on the xstreet page then click each box inworld and do "reset" in menu (or select the lot and "reset scripts in selection" from tools menu). Pretty standard advice that's been posted here lots of times before.

Having boxes on a sim where comms are out might be just as bad as having a ghost box in your list - have you tried removing all the boxes from the xstreet list and resetting the boxes inworld to start over and make sure that each box is actually connecting?

Seems to be something local for you Lasher - have you been deleting/moving boxes or anything lately? Checked old Xstreet site for dead ones? They'll give you "failed" if the MP tries to deliver from them.

0.4% over 3 days = 48% PA. 0.4% of L$100,000 = L$4. $1 in $100 = 1%. Those who fail to study maths are destined to repeat it.