Rick Nightingale

Finger-learned arithmetic knowingly excludes six S E V E N

Hmm... can get in here too now, so far. Someone plugged that big cabinet back in after the cleaners used the socket for the vacuum cleaner.

Might take some time to resolve since they are all still asleep over there. "They mostly come at night... mostly."

Yep - UK is offline. "Despite our best efforts..." 🤣 I can log in through my VPN to New York. As always, nothing on the status yet.

Hah - yeah, I just took a look at some of my wife's... varies but there were more above 100,000 tris than below it. My own three most used are 25,000, 50,000 and 100,000 tris. I just realised I was getting confused with that useless metric, 'complexity' with the 100,000 number on hair. Edit: that's what I get for posting when I've been on the brandy. [Rick Nightingale goes to refill his glass].

To add, regarding the number of triangles in each LOD... Sometimes, an object does not need a 'proper' Lowest, or even a Low, LOD. A building, for instance, is so big that it might be visible at Medium from across a sim (longer than most people's view distance, so it vanishes because of that anyway), at default LOD factor (by which I mean Firestorm's default of 2; where I design for). In that case, it can save a lot of land impact to have an imposter, or just a collapsed few triangles preferably such that they are not obtrusively visible - there's a trick using a lone vertex, sorted to the top of the list, that helps with that. Likewise a small object like jewellery that would be vanishingly small at the lowest LOD anyway, might as well vanish or just have the simplest shape that is the same visible size as the object but at minimal triangle count. So, sometimes seeing just a few triangles in the Low/Lowest LOD compared to much higher ones in the higher LODs is OK. Far more often though, that would show that the maker has simply 'cheated' and allowed the item to vanish to be able to claim a lower LI than is reasonable, or is simply to lazy (or lacking skill) to make the lower models. Hence the problem of objects vanishing when they shouldn't. A perfect (bad) example is the table I bought, before making my own. That was the one with a ridiculously high triangle count for High LOD, duplicated for Medium, but then just a few triangles for Low and Lowest when that was still visible (or rather wasn't) in a normal sized room. That's a typical example of a mesh imported from a 3D model site, where the model is intended to render at extreme detail in a 3D program like Blender; it is not appropriate for SL where it needs to render in real time, along with everything else in the room.

That's a good question, and unfortunately the majority of people will probably never even know there is a question to answer because it simply isn't common knowledge. Many makers and sellers certainly don't want people to hear it and LL doesn't care nearly as much as it should; as long as stuff sells and they get their cut of it. First, at least if using Firestorm, anything that is rezzed can be right-clicked and edited (occasionally not, like if it is locked). You can't actually edit it unless it's yours usually, so don't worry, you can't break it doing this... but you can see some information in the Object tab of the edit window. Even if it's no-mod. You can also select (in the edit window) Edit Linked, to examine each linked part if it's a linkset. First, you can see the number of triangles that each LOD has. There are four LODs and they get swapped in/out at different distances depending on the size of it (bounding box size - an imaginary box that just fits the object in). Those swap distances can be seen on that tab too, lower down the window. It shows you where the swap occurs in the LL viewer and Firestorm, at their defaults, and where it happens for you at your current LOD factor. Edit to add here: LOD = Level Of Detail; mesh models in SL have four models which are displayed at different distances. That's because there's no point showing a fine detail model when you are half way across a sim and can barely make out the object at all. The creator makes all the models... or can have the mesh uploader in the viewer auto-make them from the High LOD. That's a rubbish way to do it, but a lot of makers do. Also usefully, you can choose to see a particular LOD model there; pull down the menu under the LOD and Triangles numbers (it says "Default" usually, as above). That's a really useful trick to quickly see how well made a model is. If viewing, say, the Low model, and it is something where you would still reasonably expect to see it at its LOD swap distance (from the swap distances shown below it) but it collapses to a mess, or a lump, or vanishes altogether... you know it's poorly made. As to how many triangles... well there's a very wide range, depending what it is, but getting into many tens of thousands for a single LOD model (or even total for all four) is a lot. It might be justified, but only if it's quite detailed and you want that detail. Hair at 100,000+ is ridiculously over the top (Edit: I was getting 100,000 confused with that number in complexity, but I still think it's a lot for tris), but yes there is plenty like that, especially older hair. A few thousand is more like it. In general, several thousand is a reasonable number (as a maximum - a lot of stuff should be much lower) for the High LOD for almost anything in SL. As an example, the table I mentioned earlier, that I made, is what I would consider quite high. It's 15,000 triangles in the High LOD (the one you see right next to it) but it is very detailed; scrolled legs, carved stem, etc. Medium LOD is 3700, and at the swap distance (6m at Firestorms default LOD factor 2) you cannot see the change or difference. Low LOD is 49, Lowest is 8 triangles. At the lowest, at the distance that swaps in, it just loses the perfect table look but only just and really it's intended to by used in a room, not viewed across a football field, so you would never see that LOD in normal use. Even so, it's close enough not to be jarring if you do. Like I said, I consider that quite a high triangle count; I made it how I wanted though and it's still only 1LI without having it vanish from half way across a room, like an awful lot of stuff in SL does. I have an ornate display cabinet that is a third of that count, and I think is a more reasonable count. Most of what I make to sell will be fewer triangles than that, and you'll still never see the change at any reasonable distance. I made a large, stone gazebo with steps, many round, detailed columns, a domed glass roof with lattice woodwork framing... and that is under 2500 triangles for all LODs added up, and still you'll never see it change LOD even from fully across a region. A trick to make the lowest LOD still look good but reduce LI to a minimum is to use an Imposter. That is a plane, with a picture of the item on it. I occasionally do that where appropriate and I know some other designers use it to great effect. When the distance is so far you can't see 3D detail but should still be able to see it, a picture can work well. That was a lot of typing, lol. I might mention textures later when my fingers and your eyes recover from this. Yes - if the wireframe view of something looks almost as 'solid' as the real view, there are likely far too many triangles.

Oh, this thread has just brought back a RL memory from the depths. Many years back, my Mrs and I were in Bulgaria, sat in a little and slightly rough outdoors cafe near the Danube. There was a scruffy, skinny cat wandering around the tables, being shooed away or ignored as it gave pathetic, hoarse meows every so often. When it came around our table, I 'accidentally' dropped it a little food next to my chair. To my surprise, the cat didn't pounce on it and devour it. Instead, it mewed a little louder and two kittens ran out from the long grass nearby. The cat sat and watched while its kittens ate. It almost brought tears to my eyes (and cost me most of the remainder of my lunch, lol).

Rick Nightingale offers the cat a tuna chunk from his sandwich, and a head scratch.

You would probably love to use a 3DConnexion SpaceMouse if you ever feel like investing on one. I have the small Wireless version now because it's so conveniently sized. They make camming around in SL so much fun and much easier to control when photographing, building, etc. ...and now back to your regular, scheduled thread... what was it again???

Far worse for stressing a computer than having the LOD factor turned up, is mesh that has silly-high triangle counts and massive texture use. There's far too much of that around too, especially the former. Stuff that was clearly just ripped from some 3D model site, ported through Blender to change the format without even bothering to optimise it for SL, and uploaded here. I used to have an old-style telephone I bought, rezzed in my hallway, years ago before I knew any of this stuff. Whenever it came into view, my viewer would slow down very noticeably to the point it stuttered. That telephone had four parts, over 250,000 triangles in total (edit: in highest LOD only; the others barely existed) and something like sixteen, full resolution textures with materials, so around 144MB uncompressed texture just for that telephone. I remade the texturing and made it a single file (reduced from 16!) and could not tell the difference visually, but then I discovered triangle counts because it still caused fps drop when camming in on it. Nothing I could do about that so an expensive telephone got binned and I learned the lesson. While one telephone like that, with modern hardware, might go unnoticed... imagine a room full of stuff made like that. One small side table I looked at but didn't buy recently had a similar triangle count. I made my own instead, and it was better with 1/50th of the count.

Yep. I've never noticed a significant performance impact from raising LOD factor to 4, unlike many other graphics settings we can make. It is sad that there are still makers telling us to raise our LOD-F to 5-10 using debug. As recent as gifts from the Bellisseria event a month or so back. There is so much rubbish out there being sold by everyone from brand new accounts made obviously for the purpose of just selling rubbish quickly, to old-time and supposedly experienced 'creators'. It's one of the main things that encouraged me to learn Blender and make my own. It also saves me a lot of money. Some of the things I think of buying, when I inspect them I walk away muttering and shaking my head. There are big sellers who frequent the big events that I avoid like the plague; I know their LODs are just terrible even if the stuff looks great stood next to it (and is usually textured better than I can do, annoyingly - I can make the mesh but my artwork is lacking).

I would love to be a fly on the wall (an adult one of course) in some of their meetings about it. If it was run by the sort of people I used to work with, it would be hilarious.

Same here; precisely.

You'll never guess what my animesh tail actually is... it's the best 'tail' I could find (and a tail is all I wanted, really!). It gets a bit unconformable after a while. I recall thinking when I eventually found it after demo'ing and failing a load of tails, something like, "Of course, it's SL... I should have known to search for one of those in the first place." On a serious note, I've never thought of that Dinky-based avatar as a child, although I do tend to think of it as 'mini me'. Hmm.

👍

True story: I have a phobia of 'teddy bears'. Almost as bad as clowns. Seriously, no idea why but I couldn't stand them as a little child and still have a thing about them. The sight of one makes me feel uncomfortable. It's nothing a flame thrower can't solve (well let's face it, there isn't much a flame thrower can't solve). Real bears... not a problem. To nearly answer the OP's question, a bear but only if it was an animesh bear, not one with a human driving it. Being autistic... if I'm in the forest in SL or RL it's to get away from you lot. It always was and why I used to sneak out of the house when I was 8-9yo at midnight to explore the forests near our home in peace.

Sorry to the the bearer of sad tidings, but this bear-bating thread just shows the bear-faced cheek of a lot of us, some even overbearing. It's frankly unbearable and one of my bugbears in this place. I think you should all check your bearings and just bear with each other. I'll be your torch-bearer and set an example. Thank you for your forbearance while reading this. Remember, the best way to make friends again is make like the bears do; all remove your bearskins, get bear* together and bearhug. *Child avatars excluded... you can't do that now, even if you can grow a beard. Always remember to carry bear spray and noise makes when in the forest. How to identify a bear from it's scat: Black bear scat smells musty and contains berry seeds; grizzly bear scat smells strongly of chilli pepper and contains whistles.

Ents never did enjoy dragon FIRES

Even I, who has clung onto Windows 7 like a sloth to a branch, finally had to downgrade to Windows 10 a few months back. Too much important stuff simply wouldn't run, or I couldn't get updates, any more. The final straw was an odd glitch in the latest FS PBR beta, which was resolved by changing to Windows 10. Windows 10 LTSC seems not too bad so far. Funny though... I bought a new HP PC, with the latest Intel i7 14th gen CPU, 64GB DDR5 RAM and fast NVMe storage. Windows 10 on it takes longer to start up and shut down then my older, earlier gen HP of the same type with Windows 7, a 9yo CPU, early generation SSD and DDR4. Progress, huh?

Elves vanquish another Dwarf enclave. F I G H T

You can just remove all links to an item, without deleting the item itself. (Disclaimer: this is in Firestorm; I've no idea otherwise): In the Replace Inventory Links dialogue box, there is a checkbox to just delete the links. The only 'quick' way I've ever found to just add an item to all outfits is still laboriously manual: a. Copy into the paste buffer the item you want to add. 2. Pick an item, any item, that is in all the outfits; this is so you can use 'Find Links' (not Replace) on it and expand just the outfits folders with minimal contents. Otherwise the inventory window just gets unmanageable. Having 'found links', you can now work down the open folders. iii. In each folder, Paste as Link your new item link. Yes, I've often wished we could script inventory access, but I can only imagine the problems that would cause when someone gets it wrong and wipes out the inventory.

Looks like it is inaccurate. A quick google shows up to 96GB (but uncertain; far more mentions of 64GB). That's more like I would expect. Put at least 32GB in. I see 64 as a minimum for my assorted uses, but that might be overkill just for SL use. Why??? Texture memory.

I'm far from up to date on laptop specs but is that 16GB maximum RAM supported accurate? That is low, and I would say minimal for SL or anything. I wouldn't put in less than 32GB myself. Edit - ha, beaten to it by AmeliaJ08