Nancy Deimatov Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I was wondering, why dont SL give us the opportunity to have lawyers or even judges, cops, in sl? i dont know, with some more powers and commitment with LL, and to help us solve some problems quickly, like scammers, copybotters. I know sounds funny and i dont know if it has been discussed already, but i think its a good idea to have some law in SL. LL solves our problems once in a life time, when they do, plus i dont buy lindens from them, that makes the support ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Nancy Deimatov wrote: I was wondering, why dont SL give us the opportunity to have lawyers or even judges, cops, in sl? i dont know, with some more powers and commitment with LL, and to help us solve some problems quickly, like scammers, copybotters. I know sounds funny and i dont know if it has been discussed already, but i think its a good idea to have some law in SL. LL solves our problems once in a life time, when they do, plus i dont buy lindens from them, that makes the support ridiculous. really you don't know what you are asking for.. there are groups that think they are in charge right now.. they are corrupt as it gets and have gone as far as scaring people in their RL's they collect all kinds of information on as many people as they can..also they decide just what is right and what is wrong.. imagine them having a global banning system and then getting on a power trip to ban other regular users from all the sims that are using this global banning system..all you have to do is get on their bad side and you would be banned from those sims.. these groups exist right now and are considered griefers in the eyes of those in favor of a free grid.. they still bug griefers that have been out of sl for years and don't even play anymore... seriously..this is just the tip of the iceberg.. it gets much more real and much much worse.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syo Emerald Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 How should that work? It doesn't work perfectly in RL, how should it work in a virtual world, where people came to enjoy freedom and being who they want to be? Not to mention that the anonymity always tend to create drama, cause its easier to show your dark sides with a virtual identity. It reminds me somehow of the movie animal farm, where in the beginning the goal was to life in freedom and peace without the farmer (in our case without griefers and other harassment), but in the end some of the group made themselves to leaders, thinking they are better than others. What would stop such a judge for finally letting out his dislike for gorean roleplay, vampires, furries or childavatars? Second Life would not be the same place again and it would be its dead in the end. Better we live with the many little problems, than dealing with one very big problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I think the court mentioned here, here and here is all that we have (or need). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Brynner Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 LL used to have a helper program where SL accounts could sign up as inworld helper, but what happened is that (the few i met) acted as if they had a special status forbidding things affiliated to the largest land owner in the sim to which the helpers reported in the first place. They were forcing norms and values from the largest land owner to the rest in the region even with verbal and object harrassment. Clearly they were out of line with the actual Tos and started to harrass me when i noticed saying something about it. They we preventing me from reselling land even because they did not agree that i wanted to sell it for double the price which was very common in those hype days for the professional real estaters in relation to the land market back then (even triple prices were well accepted by the RL wealthy in SL as long as they had a flawless land style i provided them with). And my method of serious commerce is my own matter anyway as long as it is within the Tos which it always has complied to, and as long as i have satisfied recurring clients which still is the case. And i reported them as they were imposing me their norms. We don't need corruption in SL. Corruption is human nature when some ppl acquire uncriticised powers. SL has terms of services and (to my experience), abuse reports have always been dealth with by LL itself within 24 hours, or even within a few minutes as long as i as reporter wasn't around so a Linden account could act discrete. The current system of abuse reports has always work perfect to my personal experience as long as it is written in a decent RL like manner. The result wasn't always what i expected, but at least LL looked at it against the Tos and acted accordingly swiftly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Yardley Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Some sims have them, but usually just roleplay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Sautereau Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 don`t you mean sl lawl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy Paperdoll Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 What it really all boils down to is privacy. No one except Linden Lab has access to logs and accounts (that's absolutely the way it should be). In order for "helpers" or some other form of "law enforcement" in SL to be able to address problems they would need access to the logs and accounts to know what actually took place. They don't have that access so they can't know what happened........and can not be fair about any decision they might come to. All their "facts" would be based on what he said and she said.....and that just won't work. By the way, that's most of the problem people experience with AR's "not being addressed". People file an AR based on their observations and based on their interpetation of the ToS. "Joe Jerk spammed me and he should be banned. I filed an AR and Linden Lab did nothing. Joe Jerk is still spamming me." First, that's a very iffy violation. Spamming by one's definition might be Joe Jerk simply asking if you enjoy his fantasy them park that you are visiting (maybe he even sends you a note card a couple times). That may fall into the catagory of spam.........but it also may not (I happen to think it does not). It may be annoying (I can agree with that). But I doubt LL is going to do anything about it.......they will look at the logs and see what exactly took place and since Joe Jerk did not hammer you with hundreds of note cards or IM's in quick succession there is really nothing to the AR........certainly not worthy of a ban. But, since the outcome was not what the AR filer wanted "LL did nothing to help". And because LL has a strict privacy policy, they didn't tell you want they did or did not do about the AR. You have no more right to know what LL did to Joe Jerk than Joe Jerk has a right to know what LL told you. It's all about privacy........everyone's privacy (not just yours). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Absolutely and positively I am not in agreement. Everyone would have to acknowledge their authority. If they didn't they would be totally ineffective. I would personally not recognize the authority of such a group unless the TOS were changed specifically giving the authority to them and then i'd have to think twice about using SL at all. Who would you trust to make the 'right' fair an impartial decision 100 percent of the time? SL history has shown that these kind of group become corrupt with power over time no matter how noble the people and intentions were to start with. Unless they were educated in a law school specializing in international internet law, and kept fully abreast of any changes all the time I submit no one would be remotely qualified to judge things. Someone would have to pay the expenses of such a group as LL would not subsidize it. If they were of a mind to, they would already be doing it. Even if the people themselves were volunteers they would need land to have the court on and possibly even liability insurance and RL legal counsel. A fee would have to be assessed on everyone to be fair about it and that would drive a lot of people to leave SL. You yourself admit that you avoid paying anything to LL. The fact is that there is already a system in place for this. Its the courts in RL. You can always go to them if your legal rights have been violated. There is no shortcut or free ride to true justice, which is what you are asking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 As nice as it might sound, it's just too hard to implement. As pointed out above, to really judge the truth, the court would need access to the files on LL's server in order to have all the facts. LL employees sign No Disclosure Agreements (NDA's) as far as I understand and violating those carry real world consequences for them up to and including termination. How would you enforce that for a non LL person? Revoke access to SL? And how would LL prove who disclosed the information? And then there are all the (imho) ridiculous AR's like the OP encountered in this thread: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Can-This-Resident-Really-Do-This/td-p/1341953 This past week I personally had someone tell me they had RIC'd me for "trolling" after I NICELY pointed out the fail in their posts. It can just all get so stupid at times. I'm still here....their thread is not! As much as I would like to see a better system in place, I just don't see a better practical solution. And I can fully understand LL's not getting involved in inter resident disputes. It would just open up an even bigger can of worms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Yardley Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 An alternative I would be interested in and that MIGHT work, is some sort of surveillance team. A group of LL apointed observers that can be called to come have a look when something is wrong. They will record chatlogs, make snapshots and report the issue to LL for you, or help you report it. And when LL gets a report from them, they know its serious stuff. We had a griefer coming back and back and back again and there was nothing we can do. We reported it and had to wait almost half an year before anything was done. It would have been very nice to have someone come over to our sim, witness the griefer in action, made a snapshot and reported it. Especially if this meant LL wouldn't have to bother investigating it in detail. Not to mention that if a griefer notices "LL observer" coming into the region they probably run off. In short, some sort of people tho have no power in SL but who know how to quickly report issues and whos AR's get looked at a bit quicker and faster resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Jo Yardley wrote: An alternative I would be interested in and that MIGHT work, is some sort of surveillance team. In short, some sort of people tho have no power in SL but who know how to quickly report issues and whos AR's get looked at a bit quicker and faster resolved. This might be a viable thing. But it would need to be strictly controlled by LL. I would still prefer it to be someone who is in the employ of LL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
161488303349 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Perrie Juran wrote: Jo Yardley wrote: An alternative I would be interested in and that MIGHT work, is some sort of surveillance team. In short, some sort of people tho have no power in SL but who know how to quickly report issues and whos AR's get looked at a bit quicker and faster resolved. This might be a viable thing. But it would need to be strictly controlled by LL. I would still prefer it to be someone who is in the employ of LL. ^^ that when it comes to authority on other peoples parcels and sims, then linden employees should only ever have that kinda power + we already have a surveillance and reporting system which can be used to report any and everything really, that is open to anyone to use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 SL is a video game, not a nation state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vania Chaplin Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Your post remembered me a former friend of mine. She was a helper in SL. I was tying to help a newbie, when I couldn’t find a solution to a particular problem, I look in my friends list and she, the “helper”, was on line. So, I called her in IM. The first answer that I received was something like “you have to ask me first if if I want to receive an IM from you!” (????) How in the world can I ask her first if we are not face to face? Than, she said that in her group of helpers it was a rule to be enforced through SL. That was the end of our friendship and of my confidence in the program of SL’s helpers. I am still glad to give to newbies all tips I can, but I don’t miss the former official helpers groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treasure Ballinger Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 SLBA exists in SL. (SL Bar Association). Geri Kuhn is president of the group, last I knew. You can IM her if you have questions about what the group does and doesn't do. The RL lawyers who belong to SLBA have the option to RL Verify if they choose to. There's no jurisdiction on the internet. People from all over the world are in SL. If someone chooses not to verify (provide their active bar information) then it's just RP. The group is not 'provided' by LL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann Otoole Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The only valid answer to your query is LL is the judge, jury, and police. The law is the SL TOS and community standards. And your means of reporting violations is the abuse reporting system. While the system may have opportunities for improvement it has been running for almost a decade and works fairly well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melita Magic Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Just more LL please, no resident go betweens or cops. They can't be bonded and insured or vetted as being non creeps for just one reason. Who knows who would be privy to what? No, let's do things the official way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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