Along came a spider... (OR A question about safe hubs)

[ConnorBrady]

Ok. Honest question here...

How is it decided which safe hub you are plopped into when your region suddenly decides to chew you up and spit you out? I ended up in one last weekend and was a little disturbed. I ended up in an adult safe hub so I pretty much expect to see anything and everything and that's what I got.

After the grey faded and I was finally able to see, I'm able to observe the environment the SL servers have thrown me into. There, in all their naked glory, were avatars with various attachments, naked avatars, and avatars wearing things that I can only begin to guess what they are used for. All that I expected... What I did NOT expect, and what shocked me... and I found a bit distrubing... was the cluster of child avatars. There were quite a few so I'm assuming that whatever region they were in must have thrown them there as had happened to me.

Now please don't misunderstand me, I am not in any way upset with the child avatars. I know we don't get to choose where we end up in instances like this... And also understand I realize that these "children" are really adults... However there are certain rules in SL regarding child avatars... Mainly about them being in sexualized regions. Even with the understanding that these are RL adults and that they did not come to this region by choice, I still found the sight of an apparent 5 year old standing next to a naked... excited man... in all his glory... disturbing.

So... How is this chosen? Do they have general safe hubs? And how is it determined which safe hub you are flung into?

[Ariel Vuissent]

Good question! I rarely end up in safe hubs, and when I do I usually leave ASAP, so I haven't stayed around to pay attention to those around me. Odd that child avis would end up in an adult safe hub! I guess since child avi's can be age-verified just as adult avi's can, there's no real way to tell when the avi's get booted which ones are child avis and which ones are adults. Just as it would be hard to tell what attachments the avis are wearing and if they're nude or not. So LL can't just boot everyone to a G sim, since people would be arriving naked with attachments in tow; but when people are booted to Adult sims, of course there's the risk of children ending up there. I would think avi's could, perhaps, be booted to safe hubs with the same rating as the sim they were booted from; but I don't much about these things.

[ConnorBrady]

My first thought on where we end up was based on the land settings. However much of the land out there is moderate... I think that a lot of child avi places end up on moderate land because of this. You can't really send people on a moderate land to a general safe hub or you would run the risk of naked avatars being next to RL kids since the merger of the teen grid...

I guess what I would like to see is some sort of preference check box... Like they have for search. Though that's not really a perfect solution either I guess unless they were to make 3 categories of safe hubs. General safe hubs for RL teens, child avatars and those there for business purposes... Moderate for adult avatars that occasionally like to engage in adult activities and Adult hubs for those who spend considerable amounts of time engaging in adult activities.

Even saying all this, though, I realize how imperfect of a solution this is.. I realize that a person can be in the midst of changing outfits when a region goes down so the business person could end up naked at a general hub. However, at least the likelihood of various attachments showing up would be greatly diminished...

[Phil Deakins]

To the best of my knowledge, there isn't anything in the ToS that prevents child avs from being in adult areas.

[Syo Emerald]

Linden Lab can't do anything to avoid child avatars getting teleported to A rated safe hubs, cause they have no way to identivy what avatar you are using. It would need a human to look at all avatars first and that is simply impossible.

Anyway....Childavatars in A rated sims are not in general against the TOS, only the reason that most A rated sims contain sexual content and/ or the owner doesn't want a child avatar on their sim leads to the image their not allowed on A rated sims by the TOS. If you build a playground on a A rated sim, their wouldn't be any problem.

Well, after all those children will leave the safe hub after some time, just like the naked guys and you without touching anything :matte-motes-grin: ....hopefully....:matte-motes-dont-cry:

[ConnorBrady]

No, I didn't think that child avatars in an adult sim were against the TOS, however I think that being near sexually themed material is. That is what I was trying to say. The sight of child avatars standing next to naked avatars wearing attachments was a bit disturbing.

The whole idea behind the sim rating system, as I understand it, was for appearance purposes. So if the wrong person happens to walk in the room after a sim malfunction or an overzealous foreign government official happens across something... Even though nothing bad is actually occurring, the scene APPEARS bad is all I was saying.

The post was more of a "I wish there was a better way to prevent this from happening" type comment...

[Syo Emerald]

I understand your point. I'm quite happy that child avatars are not allowed on most adult sims.

[Marigold Devin]

I think this is a great question, and one that ought to be brought up at the next Adult Content User Group, or one of the Linden folks who browse these forums ought to enlighten us.



[Innula Zenovka]

As I understand it, the maturity rating of the safe hub at which you're deposited is determined by your avatar's maturity rating.   The thinking, presumably, is that since the server has no way of knowing what you might have been doing when you logged out, if you've verified yourself as Adult and set your preferences accordingly,  it's safest to put you at an Adult-rated hub.

And, just as the server has no way of knowing what you were doing, it certainly has no way of knowing what your avatar looked like when you logged out.   So if you're an adult human, a child human, a furry, a dragon or a vehicle, if you're Adult-verfied and have your preferences set to be able to visit A-rated land, you're going to end up at one of the Adult safe hubs.   At least that is how it was once explained to me by Blondin Linden, when he was still here.

 

[Knowl Paine]

The quantity of Safe-hubs could be increased.

An interface window allowing Residents to choose 1 of several Hubs, could be created.

Self designation in Preferences could help the server to "know" the type of Avatar being teleported.

A radical measure would be to tell the Server to Ruth the Avatar during teleport. :smileyvery-happy:

(they were corrrect; power makes people crazy) :matte-motes-evil-invert:

[Rene Erlanger]

If Child Avatars have payment on file....and many of them do, that  in itself acts as Adult verification. Hence they can land into Adult regions even though it's no fault of their own.

It should be based on the ratings that are set in the viewer that determines which hubs you get sent to. I'm sure most verified adults that play Child Avatars ..would not have Adult ticked for Ratings in Preferences.

[Persephone Emerald]

I had this same thing happen to me twice while I was playing the Linden Realms quest. Since I'm age verified, I found myself in an adult sim. I quickly TPed home so as not to be bothered by any creepy folks who might be in that sim. Maybe most of them had found themselves there accidentally too, but I wasn't going to hang around & start asking questions.

[Pussycat Catnap]

Lately I've been getting sent to ones of identical maturity rating to the land I was on.

[ConnorBrady]

I was on a mature sim and sent to an adult hub. I wasn't even aware they had mature rated safe hubs. I  LOVE the idea of ruthing an avatar when they are sent to the safehub. Not only would it solve this particular problem but that would provide some truly entertaining moments!

**Disclaimer** I don't really thing the ruthing thing should be done, if it even could... I just think it would be funny!

[Knowl Paine]

Ruthing everyone would cause a massive Riot and overwhelm every LL contact. I was joking :smileytongue:

[Amethyst Jetaime]

LOL @ Ruthing the avatar.  That would be just like the old days.  The grid would crash and when you logged in  you'd be Ruth in a whole hub of them. 

I am age verified and have been from the start.  As a Solution Provider I had to give RL ID to the Lindens way before age verification came into being.  I go all over the grid.  I have my settings on "adult' because I go places where the sim is set at adult simply because the owner doesn't want to deal with kids and wants only age verified adults there.  These places have nothing to do with sex or ultra violence, its just he preference of the owner..

I too am sent to an adult safe hub when there is a problem logging to my home.  I'm not a prude, but that doesn't mean I want to log in and see a bunch of naked people and newbs showing off their new feenis.  LL needs to consider that when you log in, there may be other people about in RL that can see and that you don't want to expose to this.  If I had a choice, I'd choose to go to a mature safe hub where there is less chance of this happening.

[Innula Zenovka]

Whenever I find myself logged into any of the Adult safe hubs I find myself in a room full of people in a similar position to myself; that is, trying to rez and to tp out of the place to somewhere they want to be.     And if that proves impossible, I simply log out and try to relog somewhere else.

The logic of safe hubs rather defeats me, I have to say.   All Safe Hubs, whatever the rating of the land they're on, have a G code of conduct as far as dress and behaviour are concerned; that is,  people are no more supposed to wander around naked at A-rated LL-owned Safe Hubs than M or G rated ones. We were told that the idea was that you'd not get into trouble if you rezzed nude at an A-rated hub, despite this, but it seems to me monstrously unfair (and rather unlikely) that anyone should be penalised for being deposited nude at any Safe Hub, since it's not his or her fault that's where they've ended up.

Since there's plenty of perfectly legitimate reasons someone on M or G land might be nude when they log out from their skybox or Linden Home, whatever maturity rating they're set at, I don't think there's really a way round this problem.   Nor, though, do I think it's a particularly major one.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

 

The logic of safe hubs rather defeats me, I have to say.   All Safe Hubs, whatever the rating of the land they're on, have a G code of conduct as far as dress . . .

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Not all of them.

I know of at least one with no signs against nudity. Its an old one, but has recieved mole work as recently as this past year.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Is it one of the adult ones?   My understanding was that nudity is discouraged at all Governor Linden's info-hubs, whatever their rating.

[Maelstrom Janus]

Regardless of your attitude to child avvys it is more than a little odd that Lindens made all the fuss of age verification and moving all adult businesses to one continent only to let child avys run around over adult areas...

[Ann Otoole]

LL has no way to know if someone is dressed as a child. The only solution is to ban all child representations. This would kill my vocaloid avatar as well.

[161488303349]

i not tested this for a while so not sure if it still works like it did when adult ratings came in

where u get sent to is determined by ur own rating. the one u set urself for urself in Prefs / General

if u turn off adult access then u not get sent to any adult rated sims bc the teleport doesnt allow it

if ppl on child avas have adult access turned on then that is their choice. what they do is not mine or anyone elses place to choose for them. if they break tos in making their own choices then they toast. tos quite clear about that

why would someone on a child avatar have adult access turned on? usual bc their home sim is rated adult. why they do that? bc adult sims are safer. greifers and ppl out to make mischief target adult sims way less than general or moderate rated sims. why? bc most ppl who have adult rated sims are way more tolerant and laid back generally to start with. when pushed  (edit: to extreme) they hardly ever get into the verbals with troublemakers. just silent ban and mute and carry on as if that person never existed. is no fun at all for greifers and troublemakers is that. so they not bother go to them places

[Eileen Fellstein]

Yes it makes sense that if you have chosen to be able to veiw adult content then you are not only obviously ok with seeing it, you may very well be in the middle of 'presenting' it when the crash occurs. It's really the only safe way to do it.

It didn't used to be that way. I had several occasions  shortly after I started in SL where a mature sim (which at that time included adult content) would crash while I was without clothing and I would log back in and be at the PG club where I worked. I guess it either put you at your last location or most frequently visited.

Having that particular job, I can also verify 16's assertion about greifers and their targets. The places I went in mature had very little or no griefing at all basically because no one cared, so their was no payoff for them. In contrast, the PG place had a nearly constant string of people showing up to harrass or challenge the rules or to simply display various forms of duechbagery just for the reaction. They didn't care about the consequences. The fact that it was irritating to ANYONE at all, was payoff enough for them.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

Is it one of the adult ones?   My understanding was that nudity is discouraged at all Governor Linden's info-hubs, whatever their rating.

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One of the M-rated ones. Its a very curious thing - because the no nudity signs used to be there, and were pulled out one day in 2010.

Ever since then, its had a small set of regulars who go sans outfit from time to time.